Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[simoh1490]

An interesting piece here about the bigger pollution picture in the region, perhaps give some perspective and context to Thailand's problem  when you look at the pollution map: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-china-pollution/

[mat999]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:59 PM, JimGant said:

Please get this word out to Tripadvisor, and all those other sites that advocate retiring in CM. We're inundated now with folks who took the bait. Sadly, for all the Chinese invaders, CM is just a breath of fresh air compared to their major cities' pollution. So, their overload here will not be discouraged.

 

Somehow the pollution doesn't seem to bother me, at least noticeably. I'm sure there's something else that will kill me other than bad air. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the hazy countryside -- and just chalk it up to "that's just Thailand."

Chiang Mai was far worse than any Chinese city the other day according to Citylife: http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/chiang-mai-records-highest-pm2-5-readings-world-march-6-2018/

and for those of us who the pollution does bother, here is where some advice has been put together about the particles size, face masks, Filtrete filter material etc... http://www.symbioticlifestyle.com/survive-smokey-season-chiang-mai/

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 3/9/2018 at 10:51 PM, mat999 said:

Chiang Mai was far worse than any Chinese city the other day according to Citylife

 

Yeah, they were wrong.  Their reporting is really not very good on this topic.

 

But it was a relatively less bad day in those Chinese cities that are on that list.  Which doesn't mean that Chiang Mai gets anywhere close to those places in China and India using any kind of period to compare.   So quite misleading overall.  (Actually there were other areas in Thailand that were worse on that day.)

Edited March 10, 2018 by WinnieTheKhwai

[mat999]

Hallelujah- the rain has begun. Let's hope this is the start of the rainy season this year.

[midas]

21 hours ago, mat999 said:

Hallelujah- the rain has begun. Let's hope this is the start of the rainy season this year.

So what happened? Did the rain last?

[XGM]

38 minutes ago, midas said:

So what happened? Did the rain last?

Yes. For half an hour. :-) Hopefully a bit more will fall today. 

[iainiain101]

The 2.5 level has dropped significantly this week. How much of that drop is down to nearly every Thai school being on holiday? That must reduce car journeys by at least 40,000 daily in Chiang Mai.

 

Does a drop in the AQI level coincide with school holidays historically?

Edited March 13, 2018 by iainiain101

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, iainiain101 said:

The 2.5 level has dropped significantly this week. How much of that drop is down to nearly every Thai school being on holiday? That must reduce car journeys by at least 40,000 daily in Chiang Mai.

 

Does a drop in the AQI level coincide with school holidays historically?

Almost certainly not since pollution is a seasonal thing whereas car journies are reoccurring throughout the year. But there is a link between pollution levels and the day of the week and with wind direction, burning is usually worst on Saturdays and Sundays.

[iainiain101]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Almost certainly not since pollution is a seasonal thing whereas car journies are reoccurring throughout the year. But there is a link between pollution levels and the day of the week and with wind direction, burning is usually worst on Saturdays and Sundays.

But even back in November PM 2.5 levels were frequently over 100.

 

[lannarebirth]

March 15 is the historic "hump day". It only gets better from here ... usually.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On 3/13/2018 at 8:39 AM, iainiain101 said:

The 2.5 level has dropped significantly this week. How much of that drop is down to nearly every Thai school being on holiday? That must reduce car journeys by at least 40,000 daily in Chiang Mai.

 

Does a drop in the AQI level coincide with school holidays historically?

 

Almost no correlation whatsoever.  The issue is fires in the wider region, not cars.   If it was cars then you'd have really good air in Pai, or Fang, or other small towns with few cars.  Yet the levels are higher there.

 

And don't worry, there will be some truly bad days coming up this month, with schools still closed.

 

On 3/13/2018 at 9:01 AM, iainiain101 said:

But even back in November PM 2.5 levels were frequently over 100.

 

No they weren't.  Individual readings after converting to the US AQI scale can definitely be around 100 in November. 

 

But the average PM2.5 level for November was 18 ug/m3, which is 63 on the US AQI scale.   (That's an average, so individual readings of 100 are expected, as are readings that are a lot lower)

[mrmillersr]

Fifty one day burning ban starting 1 March my a$$.  The PM 2.5 pollution levels for March this year are much higher than there were this time last year.  Not only that, but elevated levels are starting earlier than normal and it's just now a matter of seeing if it also continues longer. 

 

Anyone thinking you only have to deal with this a couple of months out of the year is delusional.  If you're looking for a healthy place to live,  forget Chiang Mai.  This problem is just going to get worse before it gets better, which will likely be never.  Unless for some reason you're permanently anchored here get out, as this is the only real solution to the problem.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

On 3/11/2018 at 12:04 AM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

Yeah, they were wrong.  Their reporting is really not very good on this topic.

 

But it was a relatively less bad day in those Chinese cities that are on that list.  Which doesn't mean that Chiang Mai gets anywhere close to those places in China and India using any kind of period to compare.   So quite misleading overall.  (Actually there were other areas in Thailand that were worse on that day.)

And, surprise surprise, there are areas south of us, way south of us, that are getting cleaner air (although they have been getting high readings too, which got some nervous). NYMBYism in its finest. We will have to wait until their city is under water and with air readings that are high for them to act, I guess. Ironically, the colour they are getting is usually yellow this time and up here we are getting red. On the other hand and in fairness, this is a local issue (as well as a regional issue). The Chinese are slowly addressing their problem with renewables, hydro, and nuclear plants too. The ones who are opposed to those dams should think a bit further than their ... nose (if they have one and a brain) because this could be a solution, although local people should be compensated correctly. Dams are not perfect, of course, as they might lower food yields among other things. But, seeing the inaction of the locals, it is poetic justice that they should be suffering too, although I am sure the farmers are badly guided by corrupt, unintelligent, and/or shortsighted leaders as well, I am sure. There are those in all countries though. Just look at the USA and Germany.

Edited March 16, 2018 by EnlightenedAtheist

[mat999]

4th worst city in the world with a rating of 170 US AQI (92.3ug/M3) today, according to AirVisual.

 

40% of people who go to hospital during smokey season are there because of respiratory issues. For the long timers here, who knows of expats or Thai friends who have died because of something which might be related to the smoke? Not that respiratory issues are the only problem, the smoke is damaging the nervous system, creating stress, cardiovascular problems and basically lowering overall well-being. 

 

MAJOR CITIES RANKING

• PLACE AQI
• 1Lahore, Pakistan182
• 2Kabul, Afghanistan174
• 3Kolkata, India174
• 4Chiang Mai, Thailand170

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed. 

 

Edit:  An off topic post has now been removed as well as an off topic reply. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by metisdead

[sqwakvfr]

Maybe I'm going a little nutty but the air in BKK feels better than Chiang Mai.  I landed at BKK a few hours ago and the sky looks almost blue.  Flying out of CNX there was this thick layer of smog hovering over the city.  

[CheGuava]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

Maybe I'm going a little nutty but the air in BKK feels better than Chiang Mai.  I landed at BKK a few hours ago and the sky looks almost blue.  Flying out of CNX there was this thick layer of smog hovering over the city.  

 

Oh, not doubt about it.  The air anywhere South from Northern Thailand is MUCH better during this time of the year.  Say from Nakhon Sawan onwards to the South.

 

On 3/16/2018 at 10:14 AM, mrmillersr said:

Fifty one day burning ban starting 1 March my a$$.  The PM 2.5 pollution levels for March this year are much higher than there were this time last year.  Not only that, but elevated levels are starting earlier than normal and it's just now a matter of seeing if it also continues longer. 

 

Anyone thinking you only have to deal with this a couple of months out of the year is delusional.  If you're looking for a healthy place to live,  forget Chiang Mai.  This problem is just going to get worse before it gets better, which will likely be never.  Unless for some reason you're permanently anchored here get out, as this is the only real solution to the problem.

 

Yes, last year was a relatively good year.  This year looks very similar to the years before that. It also didn't start earlier compared to those years. As for how long it will continue will be interesting to see; normally we're out of the worst by mid April when levels return to what you see in the first half of February.  And then May is typically the same as any other month, similar levels to January, June, November and December. 

 

And yes, March is a great time for a holiday.

 

BTW it doesn't look like it'll get worse before it'll get better.  It looks like excruciatingly slow improvement. Even with this year being not very good, it's nowhere near 2015 so far.

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by CheGuava

[canopy]

Every year it seems some claim it's getting better, others claim it's getting worse. It must be somewhat subjective since year over year statistics do not seem available. But all years follow the same pattern. When the rains stop around October the air sours quickly and goes into the yellow range. Then before long it's orange and march and april is very red and purple. The air remains awful all the way until the rains are consistent enough to stamp out all the smoke and prevent new fires from being lit. Well in excess of half the year the air is not of good quality. And that's sad because there is no good reason the air shouldn't be excellent all year round instead of weighing it vs bangkok all the time.

 

[mrmillersr]

3 hours ago, CheGuava said:

 

Oh, not doubt about it.  The air anywhere South from Northern Thailand is MUCH better during this time of the year.  Say from Nakhon Sawan onwards to the South.

 

 

Yes, last year was a relatively good year.  This year looks very similar to the years before that. It also didn't start earlier compared to those years. As for how long it will continue will be interesting to see; normally we're out of the worst by mid April when levels return to what you see in the first half of February.  And then May is typically the same as any other month, similar levels to January, June, November and December. 

 

And yes, March is a great time for a holiday.

 

BTW it doesn't look like it'll get worse before it'll get better.  It looks like excruciatingly slow improvement. Even with this year being not very good, it's nowhere near 2015 so far.

 

You obviously haven't tracked PM 2.5 levels and don't know how bad the readings are from one month to another.  In fact last year, PM 2.5  daily levels already averaged 26 for the month of November and 31 for the month of December.  Based on a very credible medical study, mortality rates from all causes starts to increase significantly when PM 2.5 levels increase each 5 points from a baseline of 10.  So in November and December, good months I guess for you, CM was 2.5 and 3 times above what was shown to be a healthy level. 

 

Now let's get to this year so far.  January had an average daily PM 2.5 level of 34, February 57 and as of 18 March the daily average number is 83.  If anyone doesn't realize just how bad this is then I guess the pollution has gotten to their brain and it is already too late for them.  Anyone who thinks what we have here is a slow improvement is delusional and I hope no one is taking that person seriously.  Things will get worse before they better so make the move, while you still can,

 

 

[wolfmuc]

Very well said, mrmillersr.

I think in the Chiang Mai area there might be the biggest problem with traffic caused air-pollution.

In addition to the dirty air, produced by thai farmers, bad boys and neighbouring countries.

Here north of Phrae we dont have burning fields or burning woods.

I think there is a basic layer of all this dirt.

Depending on the winds there might be an influence of the power plants in Mae Mo

near Lampang. Or Mae Sot?

Some days ago we bought an AQI-Meter. The results: very asthonishing.

Some days later I ordered an Air Purifier.

I'll attach a picture of this thing, two days ago.

 

 

 

 

[iainiain101]

I bought an AQI reader a couple of weeks ago and replaced the filters on my air filter. These readings are from early March, but all taken within 5 minutes.

 

First reading was bedroom with air con and air filter on.

 

Second reading was kitchen, windows closed all night.

 

third reading was in the garden.

 

This convinced me to keep the air filter on !

[keo]

iainiain101 - where did you get the AQI reader, and what did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?

[iainiain101]

10 hours ago, keo said:

iainiain101 - where did you get the AQI reader, and what did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?

I bought it on eBay for just under 1,300 Baht.

[keo]

Thanks iainiain101. Apart from the display, does it have any outputs or anything on the back? Cheers

[CheGuava]

On 3/19/2018 at 6:19 PM, canopy said:

Every year it seems some claim it's getting better, others claim it's getting worse. It must be somewhat subjective since year over year statistics do not seem available.

 

Then I have good news: year on year reports are available, with monthly and yearly summaries going back to 2012 for PM2.5 data.   That's not in a very easily digestible format, but this Facebook page has a nice graph using both PM2.5 numbers as well as a US AQI scale conversion.  It does not work on phones though unless you switch to Desktop browsing mode.  It's kept up to date for the current month to date.   https://www.facebook.com/aqichiangmai/app/190322544333196/  

 

People's feeling are indeed highly subjective, but actual PM2.5 concentration is not. 

 

On 3/19/2018 at 8:22 PM, mrmillersr said:

You obviously haven't tracked PM 2.5 levels and don't know how bad the readings are from one month to another.  In fact last year, PM 2.5  daily levels already averaged 26 for the month of November and 31 for the month of December.  Based on a very credible medical study, mortality rates from all causes starts to increase significantly when PM 2.5 levels increase each 5 points from a baseline of 10.  So in November and December, good months I guess for you, CM was 2.5 and 3 times above what was shown to be a healthy level. 

 

Now let's get to this year so far.  January had an average daily PM 2.5 level of 34, February 57 and as of 18 March the daily average number is 83.  If anyone doesn't realize just how bad this is then I guess the pollution has gotten to their brain and it is already too late for them.  Anyone who thinks what we have here is a slow improvement is delusional and I hope no one is taking that person seriously.  Things will get worse before they better so make the move, while you still can,

 

You 'obviously'.. ...   ah those are nice discussion starters.. :D   Skipping over the lovely intro and getting right down to the data: 

 

> last year, PM 2.5  daily levels already averaged 26 for the month of November and 31 for

> the month of December. 

 

Yes that's correct.  (Mae Rim station).  And 18 ug/m3 PM2.5 for November 2017 and 21 ug/m3 PM2.5 for December for the downtown one. 

 

> Based on a very credible medical study, mortality rates from all causes starts to increase

> significantly when PM 2.5 levels increase each 5 points from a baseline of 10.  So in

> November and December, good months I guess for you, CM was 2.5 and 3 times

> above what was shown to be a healthy level. 

 

I don't disagree with anything you wrote here.   Could it be that when I write "last year was a relatively good year" you took that to mean something else?   The key word is 'relatively', as in: compared to almost any other year that came before.   Does it mean that I'm ecstatic about the air quality in almost any month at any time: No. 

 

One thing I can say though is that we're in the wrong part of the world to be clean air connoisseurs.  We're in a land-locked tropical region of East Asia;  10ug/m3 PM2.5 annual mean is a great goal but 92% of the world doesn't get that.  The WHO does have interim targets for regions such as ours, that's pretty much the best we can hope for in our lifetime.  For Alpine air: find an Alp.  For reference, last year's annual mean for Chiang Mai was 23 ug/m3 (downtown station).   Over the 4 years before that it was around 34 ug/m3.   So.. it... was...  a relatively good year.

 

> January had an average daily PM 2.5 level of 34, February 57 and as of 18 March the

> daily average number is 83.  If anyone doesn't realize just how bad this is then I

> guess the pollution has gotten to their brain and it is already too late for them.  Anyone

> who thinks what we have here is a slow improvement is delusional and I hope no one is

> taking that person seriously.  

 

Mkay.. the word  "improvement" means a positive change from one state or time to another.  Reporting on the current state, bad as it is, makes no argument on having an improvement or not. 

EDIT:  Unless... unless you're comparing March with November last year..? That's not the sort of time scale to use here.  Of course March is crazy-ass worse than November, any March is way worse than any November back to the beginning of time.   You didn't arrive here a couple months ago right?

 

To date it looks like this for March, downtown station:  (Which I prefer for any kind of comparison because the PM2.5 data goes back a lot further; Mae Rim station only got PM2.5 equipment one or two years ago.)

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by CheGuava

[canopy]

Those statistics are a fantastic find to now be able to see the actual trends. What is astonishing is how few "good air" months there are if using the US standard. I would have thought for sure the wet season months would all be green. But in fact 11 or even all 12 months of a year can average sub-standard air.

 

[CheGuava]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

Those statistics are a fantastic find to now be able to see the actual trends. What is astonishing is how few "good air" months there are if using the US standard. I would have thought for sure the wet season months would all be green. But in fact 11 or even all 12 months of a year can average sub-standard air.

 

Yes; although if it's any consolation, very few places in the world are consistently in the green on the US AQI scale which is extremely strict in the low range and (IMHO) not granular enough once you hit the red zone.

 

To be in the green the PM2.5 concentration needs to be at 12 ug/m3 or below.   That rarely happens for a whole month anywhere in Asia, including the whole of Thailand.  Personal opinion: I don't care if it's 10 ug/m3 or 15 ug/m3, both are excellent. Yet one will get green, the other yellow.  And frankly that's typical in lots of places including Europe, it's often on the border between green and yellow: 

 

 

HOWEVER, the US scale is not linear, so the red zone just goes on and on and on through absolutely horrible levels of smog. It starts at about 55 ug/m3, but even at almost TRIPLE that level at 149 ug/m3 it's STILL the same color indication.  And believe me you notice the difference between 55 and 149 yet that whole range in PM2.5 concentration is crammed in between 150 and 200 on the AQI scale. 

 

So I'm not the biggest fan of the US EPA index, but as so many sites and apps use it I guess it's fine as a de-facto standard. 

 

But I do recommend to not fret over a difference of 10 ug/m3 versus 17 and just be happy because by Asian standards that's as good as it gets, even on a beach.

Edited March 23, 2018 by CheGuava

[Ruffian Dick]

Rain didn’t help much.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[canopy]

Rains this time of year tend to be very localized. Some places it rains cats and dogs meanwhile a stone's throw away not a drop. This system was like that. Our area got none, but 5 miles down the road there was a good patch of rain. This system was very hit or (mainly) miss in the north which is a little disappointing.

 

[XGM]

3 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

So far, they have acted as we would expect them: no reaction, no reply, nothing. Don't they know it is insulting to not even acknowledge people? The Stoics would have liked them! I hope they are acting in some way or another. 

Keep sending, and they might eventually... mention you to their friends as a comical episode.