British dad jailed in Thailand for 'abducting' son who 'asked to be taken away'

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have been on the receiving end of Thai hatred, and it's not just one person. They gang up. Obviously, they stick up for one another. The fury is intense, even terrifying to behold. The only mistake I made was standing up for my rights in the face of abuse. My sin was being non-Thai and living in Thailand. I was very lucky to escape with my life.

I am quite sure that the reason for their hostility wasnt just because you are a Felang living in Thailand, there must have been more to it than that 

[MaeJoMTB]

14 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I also would never had believed this unless it had happened to me personally. My first English wife had an affair, unbeknown to me at the time, filed for divorce and received legal aid to help turf me out of the family home after she left with our kids.

#MeToo

Almost exactly the same scenario.

 

Main difference was my legal advice, he said it was a lost cause, best to run with what I assets I could grab and disappear to a foreign country. Which I did.

Edited February 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Fish Head Soup]

8 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I wonder if the child was just travelling on an emergency travel document. I would imagine the son was not holding his passport when he was playing in the street where his dad found him. This may have put airport officials on alert.

It states in the article that before abducting the child and attempting to facilitate the trafficking of him to the UK, the guy had illegally entered in to the Thai household and taken the child's passport. I'm guessing charges of robbery during daylight should also be brought against the kidnapper.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Fish Head Soup
clarity

[wabothai]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

But some people are calling the whole field of daisies a pile of shit because they stepped in some...  which does come across as being bitter.

 

I think that’s the point Rob was making.

the field of daisies can hold many mines

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I think if you were honest that's what you think anyway (that you're superior). You do a good PC job on here though, I'll give you that. 

Why would I think I am superior to all Thais ? I have met my match on various terrains by them. I see them how i see other nationalities, as individuals. Some I like some i think are complete idiots. I don't feel superior to a complete group of people. I think a lot of people here have bad experiences and project them on all Thais. I just don't work like that i treat people as individuals though i admit there is always some bias. But nothing like what is being displayed here. 

[tukkytuktuk]

Quote

Jodie has been beside himself ever since Jintra took Joleon away, wondering where he is and if he will ever see him again. “Losing my grandson has affected my health. Jodie tracked them down to a remote part of north Thailand via Facebook and he flew there when she refused to take his calls.” Lidia also claims that Joleon was being looked after by his 10-year-old aunt and was carrying a foot injury. She added: “

When Jodie got there he found his son alone in the street outside the house. “Jodie rang me after being reunited with Joleon and he was so happy to have found his son. He even sent me a photo of the two together smiling — I thought everything was OK. “Joleon ran up to his dad’s car and Jodie later told me on the phone, ‘You should have seen the look on his face!’ Joleon was crying as he was so pleased to see his dad and they hugged each other. “Jodie discovered Joleon being looked after by his 10-year-old aunt and he had a nasty injury to his foot after falling off his mother’s motorbike. She was nowhere to be seen. “

As soon as Joleon saw his dad he asked to go home as he didn’t want to stay there. So they entered the house just to get Joleon’s passport. “Now Jodie has been arrested at Bangkok airport. He and his son were taken in a van back to the north of the country and he has been put in a prison. “This isn’t justice. I just can’t believe this is happening to us. I just want my son and grandson back. 
 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-dad-in-thailand-jail-for-trying-to-rescue-kidnapped-son-1-4696255

 

Just saw this article.

Edited February 25, 2018 by tukkytuktuk

[cyberfarang]

43 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

#MeToo

Almost exactly the same scenario.

 

Main difference was my legal advice, he said it was a lost cause, best to run with what I assets I could grab and disappear to a foreign country. Which I did.

My lawyer also told me I was fighting a lost cause. My wife had our kids to use as her weapon against me and the lawyer said; the court will award my wife everything. Even my cousin who was a barrister at the time advised me to do a runner. But I was still young and did not have the resources to go and live abroad, plus I desperately tried to be with my children that failed.

 

What many fail to understand is that under the UK legal system the husband and father of a couple`s children can remain only as long as the wife and mother of his children wants him to remain on the scene. If the woman decides she wants out the marriage, all she has to do is apply for divorce and after a few months hubby and daddy will be forced out, imposed to pay for many years towards the upkeep of his ex-wife and children and have to pay all his legal fees if he tries to fight the divorce and claim reasonable access to his children. Also once thrown out the family home the local authority are under no legal obligations to rehouse the father, in-fact he is made homeless and discarded, while the ex wife continues on with her life financially supported by the State and discarded ex husband.

 

What this amounts to, the husbands and fathers in such cases have virtually no statutory rights in divorce cases and to gain any rights at all, have to fight through the legal system every inch of the way.

 

Sadly, even if the father in the OP manages to get his son back to the UK and the wife returns to reclaim the child, he`ll still lose under the legal system. All I can say is; poor sod; I really feel for that guy.

Edited February 25, 2018 by cyberfarang

[amykat]

25 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

It states in the article that before abducting the child and attempting to facilitate the trafficking of him to the UK, the guy had illegally entered in to the Thai household and taken the child's passport. I'm guessing charges of robbery during daylight should also be brought against the kidnapper.

 

You really know your stuff don't you?

 

Trafficking of children is a form of human trafficking and is defined as the "recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring, and/or receipt" of a child for the purpose of slavery, forced labor and exploitation. 

 

Many states define robbery as theft/larceny of property or money through the offender's use of physical force or fear against a victim. ... Unlike burglary, the crime of robbery almost always requires the presence of a victim who suffers actual injury, or is threatened with harm.

 

He was charged with trespassing, a rather mild offense, probably because the passport belongs to the child and probably in fact would be considered the parent's property as well.

[tukkytuktuk]

 

 

This story is so sad. I would do anything to get my son back. This guy must be chewing on the cell bars trying to escape. Let's hope the British Embassy can do something for this Father.

[robblok]

35 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have been on the receiving end of Thai hatred, and it's not just one person. They gang up. Obviously, they stick up for one another. The fury is intense, even terrifying to behold. The only mistake I made was standing up for my rights in the face of abuse. My sin was being non-Thai and living in Thailand. I was very lucky to escape with my life. I tried to sort it out using their legal system, but it's hard to win. Even the lawyers ripped me off. A senior judge told me in private (met him at the mall) not to trust lawyers. Where do you go from that? Two Thai women attacked my non-Thai wife inside the police station. No one lifted a finger to assist.

Where do you go from there.. finding a good lawyers is hard.. you were not ripped off because you were a farang.. you were ripped off because they could. My friend who is Thai also had unpleasant dealings with the Thai justice system and paid to much for lawyers. She decided to become one and is in the process of doing so, i fully see her succeed as I seldom seen anyone brighter.

 

 

 

[wabothai]

44 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am quite sure that the reason for their hostility wasnt just because you are a Felang living in Thailand, there must have been more to it than that 

Hidden hostility through ignorant jealousy.

[BEVUP]

5 minutes ago, amykat said:

He was charged with trespassing, a rather mild offense, probably because the passport belongs to the child and probably in fact would be considered the parent's property as well.

Her property - That's where the Trespass comes in

[jenny2017]

4 hours ago, Sirbergan said:

They are not the same people ...Jodie, Jody and Jodi Smith are all different people.

Exactly, that was my point. If you can find so many by a simple search, then how many of them are trying to live off other peoples' wallet?

 

      Here's an extraordinary one: https://www.gofundme.com/t8zj5w65w

 

   $2,200 of $2,000 goal and that's for bulletproof wets for...aehh dogs? Do you really think that these dogs have a vest now? 

[jenny2017]

12 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

 

 

This story is so sad. I would do anything to get my son back. This guy must be chewing on the cell bars trying to escape. Let's hope the British Embassy can do something for this Father.

I remember a Britsh Citicen in the same situation. He went to the green border near Cam bodia, called Chong Sa Ngam went with his son to Cambodia without showing their passports and both left Pnom Phen, via Bangkok without problems. They were on "transit."   I'd never tell people that they should do anything that's considered illegal. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by jenny2017

[wabothai]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why would I think I am superior to all Thais ? I have met my match on various terrains by them. I see them how i see other nationalities, as individuals. Some I like some i think are complete idiots. I don't feel superior to a complete group of people. I think a lot of people here have bad experiences and project them on all Thais. I just don't work like that i treat people as individuals though i admit there is always some bias. But nothing like what is being displayed here. 

The little (top of iceberg) that is displayed here is because of forum rules not allowing outrage.

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, wabothai said:

The little (top of iceberg) that is displayed here is because of forum rules not allowing outrage.

You might be right, but there are numerous people, even under longtime expats, who write vastly negative stuff about all Thais, but they live here, or holiday here, as often as possible.

 

   How can anyone blame all Thais when his marriage went down the drain, because the Thai bar girl was his first relationship in the age of 39?

 

  How can anyone blame all Thais when a lady-boy in Pattaya drugged him, on his first day and took all away, left him naked.

 

 How can anyone blame all Thais, just because the cops in Krung Thep were informed by an American that a burglar raided his hotel room, but the cops later found all the stolen items under his bed..He's now badmouthing all Thais, because he can't go back. 

 

  How can anyone blame the American who's riding a big bike for the first time, together with his 3rd gender friend. He smashed 5 motorbikes,got stopped by a Pick Up, and is now posting that all Thais are <deleted>. 

 

  How can anyone blame all Thais when he got busted stealing a handbag at the airport and got caught. Now talking bad about all Thais.....

 

  We should think twice before we are judging a whole nation and there's no reason to live here, if the people wouldn't be good. 

 

   The sad part is that I could go on and on.........

[sanemax]

29 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Her property - That's where the Trespass comes in

U.K. Government property 

[amykat]

2 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Her property - That's where the Trespass comes in

 Well I am not sure about that?  I think these seem to be a lot of trumped up charges in fact. There were a lot of facts that were unknown to me before, but if the article I just read now is correct it states that they are STILL MARRIED but were separated for 6 years and had shared custody.  That Jody had the child the majority of the time. That recently he was given full custody.

 

His Mother was not there. I am pretty sure Thai law says that when the Mother is not there, the other parent can come and take the child first of all.  The passport must belong to either the child, or parents if it can't belong to child due to being minor, and he has custody.  So??  Trespass is simply entering without permission, but he probably had permission from his child  ..who else was there to give it? The 10 year old babysitter?  I mean, really that is stretching things I would say.  You can't go into your relatives house to get your child's things that are necessary for him?  There was no restraining order.

 

The Mother had not even told him not to come or told him anything at all as far as we know because the Mother just went missing, cut all contact and he found his child on his own and his child called him and asked him to come get him? I'm not so sure he really broke Thai law.  Is leaving Thailand with your own child who you have full custody of, going back to the country where you both habitually live for the child's entire life, against Thai law???

 

In this case, if you come on vacation with your Thai wife, and some children, from the UK and she gets in a bad mood, and says at the airport, I disagree, I don't want my children to leave here now, that is it, they are trapped forever in this country, even if you all have lived forever in the UK!! As soon as they step foot here, your wife has veto power over every court and all paperwork and legal everything??  At least for some years maybe?

[tropo]

39 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why would I think I am superior to all Thais ? I have met my match on various terrains by them. I see them how i see other nationalities, as individuals. Some I like some i think are complete idiots. I don't feel superior to a complete group of people. I think a lot of people here have bad experiences and project them on all Thais. I just don't work like that i treat people as individuals though i admit there is always some bias. But nothing like what is being displayed here. 

Fair enough, but why all the venom toward anyone who makes any negative comments about Thai people? I know one thing about them - they are a tough breed and can defend themselves. They certainly don't need any mollycoddling. There is a reason behind most negative comments. They come from foreigners of various nationalities who have had real-world experience with Thai people. 

 

 

[tukkytuktuk]

£590 of £5000 raised so far.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/joe-smith-5

Edited February 25, 2018 by tukkytuktuk

[tropo]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

I am quite sure that the reason for their hostility wasnt just because you are a Felang living in Thailand, there must have been more to it than that 

I don't know why you would be "quite sure" there were more reasons behind the hostility. You don't know the story. I'm "quite sure" you are wrong. This was a pure case of xenophobia with no logic behind it.

 

Maybe this might upset you, but they don't need much of an excuse to hate foreigners here.

[Jimbo2014]

10 hours ago, colinneil said:

Yes i feel for him, but at the same time, what he did was crazy.

He honestly thinks Thai officials would be on his side, no way, Thai mother wins every time.

 

As someone else said - the Thai mother is often at a disadvantage.  Firstly its a male dominant society and men often win custody in court.  Second a foreigner can often prove better income etc..  In my friends experience its done fairly and the foreigner can easily win by abiding to the process of the court.

[Fish Head Soup]

40 minutes ago, amykat said:

Many states define robbery as theft/larceny of property or money through the offender's use of physical force or fear against a victim. ... Unlike burglary, the crime of robbery almost always requires the presence of a victim who suffers actual injury, or is threatened with harm.

There was a child in the property when he entered it, under Thai law this can be construed as robbery, and if the owner of the property decides they wish to press a charge of robbery in daylight against the guy then the police will no doubt to so.

 

Also the child was being trafficked if an attempt was being made by one parent to remove them from the country without the other parents permission. The fact that one parent had previously allegedly removed the child from the UK without the other parents permission is a separate issue.

 

In the eyes of the law this guy abducted a child, was stopped from trafficking the child thanks only to the competence and quick actions of the Thai authorities, and is guilty of entering a home and taking items whilst another child was present. He will rightfully feel the full force of the justice system, and perhaps think twice before planning such crimes in foreign lands in future.

[jenny2017]

11 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't know why you would be "quite sure" there were more reasons behind the hostility. You don't know the story. I'm "quite sure" you are wrong. This was a pure case of xenophobia with no logic behind it.

 

Maybe this might upset you, but they don't need much of an excuse to hate foreigners here.

Many of them do not have to make an excuse for hating us. They just do. 

[jenny2017]

12 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

As someone else said - the Thai mother is often at a disadvantage.  Firstly its a male dominant society and men often win custody in court.  Second a foreigner can often prove better income etc..  In my friends experience its done fairly and the foreigner can easily win by abiding to the process of the court.

The "male dominant society" does only help Thai citizens. In only a few cases will the father get full rights.

[MaeJoMTB]

10 hours ago, Tradewind777 said:

Thailand is a signatory of The Hague Convention and as such once the processes are completed, Thailand would have to send the child back to UK.

BBC says NO,

"British authorities have no jurisdiction in Thailand, which is not a signatory of the Hague Convention, and abduction is not considered a crime in the Thai Kingdom."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-14737210

[amykat]

6 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

There was a child in the property when he entered it, under Thai law this can be construed as robbery, and if the owner of the property decides they wish to press a charge of robbery in daylight against the guy then the police will no doubt to so.

 

Also the child was being trafficked if an attempt was being made by one parent to remove them from the country without the other parents permission. The fact that one parent had previously allegedly removed the child from the UK without the other parents permission is a separate issue.

 

In the eyes of the law this guy abducted a child, was stopped from trafficking the child thanks only to the competence and quick actions of the Thai authorities, and is guilty of entering a home and taking items whilst another child was present. He will rightfully feel the full force of the justice system, and perhaps think twice before planning such crimes in foreign lands in future.

 

Well I guess you are saying this is some special thing in Thai law where the simple fact of a child in a home, might be considered a threat, therefore that would constitute a robbery charge?  But if that is how the law is written, I would then argue that there must be a theft for one thing to go along with it, and there was not, and the child probably would have to NOT be a member of your family, or at least there would have to be a threatening act if so.  He is married to this woman, that child was either his own child or his sister in law who was acting as his kid's babysitter. He was never told not to enter the house, he was asked in by his own child.  This obviously is not a stranger entering another home for devious purposes or for theft.  Obviously that is what the law would have been written for!!

 

That cannot be the law:  It is illegal to enter a home and take items when another child is present?? So when I have my child's friend over, my maid better not enter and pick up something she forgot like her phone. I could charge her!!

 

I mean, you don't agree with what the man did I can see that, but you seem to be going too far!!  If you think this way, then why aren't you thinking up charges for the woman, child endangerment, calling her a trafficker ...this is not what the term is generally used for.  If a parent was planing on selling the child into prostitution, then okay.

 

 

[tukkytuktuk]

The Joe Smith Appeal on facebook

https://m.facebook.com/Joe-Smith-Appeal-1984250755125081/

[tropo]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Where do you go from there.. finding a good lawyers is hard.. you were not ripped off because you were a farang.. you were ripped off because they could. My friend who is Thai also had unpleasant dealings with the Thai justice system and paid to much for lawyers. She decided to become one and is in the process of doing so, i fully see her succeed as I seldom seen anyone brighter.

3

This was not just another Farang saying he's had bad experiences with lawyers. This is a senior judge (the one who presided over our case) saying to me in private (a few days after the case was over) that we should never trust lawyers.

He said some other very interesting things too, but I don't want to go off topic.

Regarding your comment: "you were not ripped off because you were a farang.. you were ripped off because they could."

You got that sentence mixed up. It should  have read: "you were ripped off because they could because you are a foreigner"

Although I have no doubt Thai lawyers rip off their fellow citizens too, the extent of our rip-off was because we are foreigners.

It was like taking candy from a baby.

1. We don't understand the Thai justice system and cannot read any of the court documents. Even the lawyer's translations were in unintelligible English.

2. The lawyer submitted key evidence that formed the backbone of our case late and was therefore deemed inadmissible by the court. He never mentioned this to us at the time and I didn't find out until 6 months later when a countersuit was made against us.
3. He used our predicament in an attempt to extract more money from us. Fortunately, we found a good lawyer to save us, but it cost a pretty penny.
4. As foreigners, we have more incentive NOT to pursue cases in court as we would be kicked out of the country after serving time and/or paying a fine. We have much more to lose.
5. We pay more for our defence than Thai people pay. We don't get the benefit of fee negotiation. We are usually more desperate and they take advantage of this.

 

I can go on, but suffice it to say: We were ripped off because we were foreigners (my wife is not Farang, but also non-Thai).

 

What say you about my 40kg wife being attacked by 2 bigger women in the interview room at the police station. One tried to punch her in the head, but she managed to deflect it and hit her on the shoulder. There were 3 police officers who witnessed this. Of course, it would have been recorded on a number of CCTV cameras. The officers didn't want to know about it. They said it was her fault indicating that she asked for it. How would you feel if that was your foreign wife? What could I do? Get into an altercation with 2 crazy Thai women to protect my wife?

 

This was a bunch of Thai people in a police station treating us like dirt. People in a position of authority.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by tropo

[Fish Head Soup]

19 minutes ago, amykat said:

He was never told not to enter the house, he was asked in by his own child. 

How exactly do you know this?