Etiquette Training For Immigration Officers At Suvarnabhumi Airport

[miserychick]

Interesting reading about the Thai gf's being questioned upon leaving the country. I've left the US plenty of times and have never once been questioned about it. I don't understand why Thailand would care if their own nationals left Thailand. My Thai gf and I went to Malaysia a couple months ago and they actually stamped her passport as departing Thailand. I wondered why. One should never have a stamp from their own country in their passport. It makes no sense.

Can anybody explain why the Thai immigration cares why these Thai girls leave the country or why they bother stamping their passports for departing?

Thanks

I was told that it was to keep track of coming in and out... not a very good/clear explanation, but that's the way Thais answer to all things (keep track? why? how? and do you really?).

I hold both US and Thai passports, and have been traveling around using both and I once messed up the order somewhere with the stamping in and out, so when I was at the airport to LEAVE the country, and the officer found that I had one more coming-in/going-out stamps than I was supposed to from the previous travels. (can't remember exactly but it's a long complicated thing to explain, so I won't). He had to take me aside, write down some report, record my passport number into some books, and was grumpy the whole time while he was doing so... when he was done he gave me a "don't do that again" warning... but, seriously, it's not like it was my fault cuz it must have been his people who stamped the passport in the first place. so.

I suppose it's a matter of bureaucratic process that these officers were just told to do and have been doing so without asking why for generations...

[sriracha john]

One should never have a stamp from their own country in their passport. It makes no sense.

Can anybody explain why the Thai immigration cares why these Thai girls leave the country or why they bother stamping their passports for departing?

Thanks

Come again?? what is the problem?

I believe it's to verify that they are not on overstay... but I might be wrong about that because some of the laws are kinda tricky to understand.

[younghusband]

I think it is a good step, but the rudeness is by no means limited to Thailand...ask anyone who has been through the aliens line in Heathrow or other UK airports, or arriving passengers in Sydney, or as someone mentioned, the USA. Immigration officials are often bad tempered or at least arrogant and rude. Thailand is no exception. I have also seen this at Hong Kong and Macau, and best not to even mention China borders.

I wouldn't say the Immigration officials in Thailand are particularly rude.It's just when the small minority -see my previous post -indulge in passport tossing etc and calculated indifference, its so in conflict with the normal good manners of the country that the bad behaviour stands out.For sheer unadulterated rudeness try the USA where what they call the war on terror gives many Immigration officials the feeling they can bully, rant and insult with indifference.

[thai_narak]

I don't have any big issue with them. But a simple Sawadee Krup/Kha or even "Hello" in English would be polite. Then when they stamp they could at least say "Welcome to Thailand" - I'd settle for that.

There is no immigration officer in any country in the world that do this "Welcome to blah, blah..."

[gdhm]

I don't have any big issue with them. But a simple Sawadee Krup/Kha or even "Hello" in English would be polite. Then when they stamp they could at least say "Welcome to Thailand" - I'd settle for that.

There is no immigration officer in any country in the world that do this "Welcome to blah, blah..."

Shame on all countries Immigration officers then. Politeness costs nothing. Immigration Officers are often the first face of any country to the Foreigner. Most countries want short stay Tourists to visit. a "Welcome to blah, blah..." or similar, costs nothing and takes a second and will be well received.

If the McDonald workers found time to say "Have a nice day" for years (don't know if they still do it) to everybody whilst under constant pressure of huge volumes of customers, I am certain Immigration Officers can find a second to do similar (and any other person working in a customer related job).

I find it interesting that people here are comparing different countries Immigration Officers.

Are we trying to prove who is the worst, or are we suggesting that providing US, UK or wherever, are the worst then we should not worry if Thailand Immigration Officers are rude or not, IF less rude than those countries OR or do we feel that rudeness without cause (whatever degree) is unnecessary and unacceptable whatever the country,

Regards, Dave

[sbk]

If the McDonald workers found time to say "Have a nice day" for years (don't know if they still do it) to everybody whilst under constant pressure of huge volumes of customers, I am certain Immigration Officers can find a second to do similar (and any other person working in a customer related job).

and look at what they get paid as well!

7-11 manages to instill it in their lowly paid staff here. Why should Immigration find it so hard?

[Axel]

Read somewhere an interview, about 2 years ago, with CMX-immigration. Clear answer, "We are immigration-POLICE and our job is to look out for criminals...".

[sbk]

Read somewhere an interview, about 2 years ago, with CMX-immigration. Clear answer, "We are immigration-POLICE and our job is to look out for criminals...".

So that makes everyone who enters the country a potential criminal then? Too bad they missed so many of the ones who actually did enter the country

[Axel]

So that makes everyone who enters the country a potential criminal then? Too bad they missed so many of the ones who actually did enter the country

Of course, guilty until proven innocent.

And, they got Himbali and US$ 10 million.

[p_brownstone]

If the McDonald workers found time to say "Have a nice day" for years (don't know if they still do it) to everybody whilst under constant pressure of huge volumes of customers, I am certain Immigration Officers can find a second to do similar (and any other person working in a customer related job).

and look at what they get paid as well!

7-11 manages to instill it in their lowly paid staff here. Why should Immigration find it so hard?

A brief smile from the Immigration Officer would be nice of course - but if he has dealt with dozens of passengers in a very short period of time surely anyone can sympathise with the way the chap must feel.

That said, I would rather receive prompt and efficient service – from anyone – than the totally insincere McDonalds / KFC / et al “have a nice day” or, as someone already mentioned, the mechanical Wai from the cashier at Lotus; whoever insisted that the staff perform that artificial ritual is certainly not Thai.

Patrick

Edited January 25, 2007 by p_brownstone

[gdhm]

If the McDonald workers found time to say "Have a nice day" for years (don't know if they still do it) to everybody whilst under constant pressure of huge volumes of customers, I am certain Immigration Officers can find a second to do similar (and any other person working in a customer related job).

and look at what they get paid as well!

7-11 manages to instill it in their lowly paid staff here. Why should Immigration find it so hard?

A brief smile from the Immigration Officer would be nice of course - but if he has dealt with dozens of passengers in a very short period of time surely anyone can sympathise with the way the chap must feel.

That said, I would rather receive prompt and efficient service – from anyone – than the totally insincere McDonalds / KFC / et al “have a nice day” or, as someone already mentioned, the mechanical Wai from the cashier at Lotus; whoever insisted that the staff perform that artificial ritual is certainly not Thai.

Patrick

I agree with you Patrick, I do sympathise and I do agree about the mechanical "have a nice day" -used to irritate me when it sounded really mechanicla and not sincere, BUT at least it was better than a scowl, abruptness and they at least smile.

However, it is also true that many people around the World do stressful jobs AND COPE. I would also have to say when I have been in massive and stressed out queues at Don Muang airport trying to book in I have always found the staff member doing the processing friendly under huge pressure of worried passengers afraid they will miss their flights. I cannot believe Immigration are under more pressure than them.

Maybe there is a statistical difference in attitude and presentation between Private and Public sector employees

when dealing directly with the public. I have in my country also noticed a different attitude with public officials dealing with the public and PRIVATE firms dealing with the public. Maybe there is truth in the fact that if you are not pleasant when representing a Private firm (where people can go to other companies if they want) you get warnings from your bosses pretty quickly and then the sack if you do not improve. I don't think public servants feel so much at risk, they know they cannot usually lose customers.

My brother worked for UK VAT. He told me policy was (at one time -don't know if its changed) to never say sorry. OK to say we have found a discrepancy and will adjust it. Sorry was considered a sign of weakness (in MY view a sign of arrogance). Sorry or a smile goes a long way to smoothing things and reduce stress INCLUDING for IMMIGRATION Officers.

Regards, Dave

[thai_narak]

I thought this training is not going work but yesterday when I flew from KL I have experienced first hand the result of this training. YES, the immigration officer smiled at me when handed my passport. This is the first time I saw an immigration officer threw a smile. But I think this officer is high rank as he is wearing a coat with decorative stuff oh his shoulder. Well, it's good start and I hope other officers will follow suit.

[the gent]

In defence of the Thai immigration staff I am compelled to remind folk that they are operating a control function and not one that may be synonymous with, say, that of the bimbette receptionist uttering vacuous hotel - speak in the hope the customer's vanity will be bolstered.

Sentiment expressed by the officer during the course of passport examination is entirely redundant and adds nothing to the transaction. Idiot passengers might think they are entitled to a smile but what they invariably ignore is the fact that they see the immigration officer only once whereas the officer may see hundreds of passengers in the course of his shift. Given the unedifying sight of many of the lumpen tourists one encounters throughout Thailand I am not surprised the poor immigration officer has a reputation for surliness. Wouldn't you be a tad jaded if you were instructed to smile at each and everyone of the drossy buggers you invariably encounter in the course of your duties? For my part, I can scarcely contain a sneer when observing swathes of human flotsam that constitutes the travelling public.

[Dupont]

I'm ok with em being surly as they do catch the odd villan.

I also agree with the gent about the idiotic view that some have about receiving politeness. Would really slow the process down as I am sure a polite retort to the polite greeting would be forthcoming, then a "your welcome" sir, then perhaps all sorts of nice chit chat about weather, beware of the taxis, hows your family etc.

No, stamp em in and get shot of em, espescially if I am 146th in the queue as I often am. Once you start dealing with the Taxi mob outside, you realise what rudness is really all about.

no point spending all that money teaching em to say "welcome to Suvanabhoom airport" then having to teach them to say, "welcome to Don Muang Airport" next month

[gdhm]

In defence of the Thai immigration staff I am compelled to remind folk that they are operating a control function and not one that may be synonymous with, say, that of the bimbette receptionist uttering vacuous hotel - speak in the hope the customer's vanity will be bolstered.

Sentiment expressed by the officer during the course of passport examination is entirely redundant and adds nothing to the transaction. Idiot passengers might think they are entitled to a smile but what they invariably ignore is the fact that they see the immigration officer only once whereas the officer may see hundreds of passengers in the course of his shift. Given the unedifying sight of many of the lumpen tourists one encounters throughout Thailand I am not surprised the poor immigration officer has a reputation for surliness. Wouldn't you be a tad jaded if you were instructed to smile at each and everyone of the drossy buggers you invariably encounter in the course of your duties? For my part, I can scarcely contain a sneer when observing swathes of human flotsam that constitutes the travelling public.

I am absolutely AMAZED you think a pleasant manner from an Immigration Officer (or anybody) is unnecessary for "as you so easily describe those who feel pleasantness is not out of place" IDIOT PASSENGERS.

I would ALSO point out that the Head of Airport Immigration does NOT think his officers are being suitably respectful otherwise he would not be sending them to Etiquette. Maybe you know better than him on the subject about what manner is acceptable.

Finally, If "volume" and "control function" is an excuse, then please explain to me (and everybody else reading your comments) why most Thai Police Stations in Thailand and MOST Embassies' staff are usually courteous and pleasant. A person does not need to smile to be satisfactorily pleasant AND even if NOT pleasant that does not mean a person is justified in being aggressive, abrupt or rude WITHOUT CAUSE.

You think semi throwing peoples passports back as them is justifiable do you?, you think being spoken to abruptly and like a piece of Sh*t is OK do you? What planet are you on???

I am sorry you put yourself on such a high pedestal and look down on so many tourist coming into Thailand and categorise us so poorly.

Shop keepers and market stall sellers everywhere in Thailand usually smile and are pleasant (and with the hours they work and the pay they get, they have very little to be happy about).

Bank tellers also are subject to large volume of customers and stress but they are also pleasant -I could go on forever. I suppose because these groups of worker are not doing a "control function" job, that you think they are not stressed and YOU THINK they can smile when tired and stressed, whilst but the Immigration Officers are not able to do the same and you seem to be suggesting "NOR should they".

I am sorry if you think ME aggressive but you have insulted a lot of passengers and average people, that feel BASIC respect and politeness is NOT out of place. Why are you making excuses on behalf of Immigration by trying to make out they have some SPECIAL reasons for being as they have been.

MOST people find it very hard to be unpleasant to those NOT being unpleasant to them.

Your comment "For my part, I can scarcely contain a sneer when observing swathes of human flotsam that constitutes the travelling public"... I will NOT sink to your level of abuse and say what I am thinking about that comment. Oh by the way which description of Flotsam are you calling us

Web definition says (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flotsam):

flot·sam (fltsm)

n.

1.

a. Wreckage or cargo that remains afloat after a ship has sunk.

b. Floating refuse or debris.

2. Discarded odds and ends.

3. Vagrant, usually destitute people.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Anglo-Norman floteson, from Old French floter, to float, of Germanic origin; see pleu- in Indo-European roots.]

Usage Note: In maritime law, flotsam applies to wreckage or cargo left floating on the sea after a shipwreck. Jetsam applies to cargo or equipment thrown overboard from a ship in distress and either sunk or washed ashore. The common phrase flotsam and jetsam is now used loosely to describe any objects found floating or washed ashore.

Once again THANK YOU on behalf of us flotsams

Dave

[gdhm]

I'm ok with em being surly as they do catch the odd villan.

I also agree with the gent about the idiotic view that some have about receiving politeness. Would really slow the process down as I am sure a polite retort to the polite greeting would be forthcoming, then a "your welcome" sir, then perhaps all sorts of nice chit chat about weather, beware of the taxis, hows your family etc.

No, stamp em in and get shot of em, espescially if I am 146th in the queue as I often am. Once you start dealing with the Taxi mob outside, you realise what rudness is really all about.

no point spending all that money teaching em to say "welcome to Suvanabhoom airport" then having to teach them to say, "welcome to Don Muang Airport" next month

Dupont regarding you comment "no point spending all that money teaching em to say "welcome to Suvanabhoom airport" then having to teach them to say, "welcome to Don Muang Airport" next month " NICE ONE LOL.

I am sorry you agree with the other gent about idiotic views. For most people, politeness and pleasantness are NOT Idiotic VIEWS. From Airport Immigration's OWN Survey it would seem there are many (majority) that share my idiotic views and the fact they are doing something about it suggest Airport Immigration agree with our idiotic views. GOOD ON THEM for trying to improve an area they feel they can do better in.

Please remember it is not ONLY immigration Officers that are stressed. Many passengers have been in a cramped aeroplane seat for up to 12 hours when they arrive at Bangkok Airport, had little sleep, are unsure of the airport procedures and regulations in a different country, are racing to make connections.

I am sure you are a reasonable person Dupont and I ask you "Do you really think that when handing a person back their passport with a smile and a " Thank you" takes additional time"?. If Immigration are tired and do not feel like smiling then OK but a Thank you is still basic politeness and acceptable IN ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD. I bet MOST passengers, when they are handed back their passport and VOA etc. by the Immigration Officer say "Thank You".

I have worked with the public over many years and only wish to repeat. pleasantness and politeness does not take ANY TIME at all and goes a long way in keeping things calmly, and smoothly.

Example When ALL Airlines staff are processing bags, tickets etc., they are always pleasant, usually smiling whilst under huge pressure very often. They often have to deal with passengers unhappy at excess charges, inexperienced, or on many occasions who are running late (having left check in to the last minute or having been delayed in traffic.) HOWEVER the airline staff remain calm, friendly and smiling.

Dupont I am a fair man. IF you can demonstrate to me and others that what I say is not accurate AND you can show that their manner, smiles and pleasantness wastes ONE SECOND of time then I am happy to review my opinion and even apologise for my comments -but I am sure you cannot.

Regards, Dave

ps agree with you about the politeness of many of the Taxi drivers outside the airport. They are too busy trying to get you "off meter" and rip you off, even they though they all say Officially they only operate on "meters"

[ding]

I think that if they triple the number of Imm. Officers, the mean niceness-level will rise.

Our crowding impulse and stress level must be palpable to them.

I've always had good experiences at Thai immigration.

my .02

[gdhm]

I think that if they triple the number of Imm. Officers, the mean niceness-level will rise.

Our crowding impulse and stress level must be palpable to them.

I've always had good experiences at Thai immigration.

my .02

I have had only 2 experiences with Don Muang Airport Immigration and I have been treated OK. The officers pretty well said nothing except "passport" and a couple more instructions and then handed back my passport. They were efficient and neither rude nor friendly. I am NOT complaining or unhappy with my treatment by them.

My single in person experience with a Thai Embassy in Vientiane, Laos was similar. No complaints or concerns again.

However my single experience at Udon Thani (sub office of Nong Khai), Immigration was I am sorry to say was efficient and I was given my Visa extension without problems BUT the officer's first comment and tone were very rude and manner throughout cold, abrupt and intimidating.

My wife and I were spoken to as if "we had been sent to the School Head Master to be punished" and it was an uncomfortable and nerve wracking experience. The Visa extension was very important to us and of course nobody in their right mind would respond negatively to any rudeness by an Immigration Officer and we certainly did not and would not have had it not been very important.

I remarked to my wife after the encounter the I was trembling inside most of the time during the interview -a feeling I had not had for 10s of years. I had all my documentation and I complied with everything exactly as required and my wife and I should not have been spoken to as we were. Thankfully, we will not need to run the gauntlet for another year (and running the gauntlet is exactly what it felt like!).

I always do as I am asked by officials, I always obey the rules and the laws. All I ask in return is fair treatment civilly and as a fellow human being.

Regards, Dave

[kmart]

^^ I was caned across the hand in Maptaphut Immigration office and made to stand in a corner for an hour.

I also had to write; "I must not slouch at the counter during application of visa" 100 times. It was soooooooo humiliating. Boohoo.

[Vespa]

^^ I was caned across the hand in Maptaphut Immigration office and made to stand in a corner for an hour.

I also had to write; "I must not slouch at the counter during application of visa" 100 times. It was soooooooo humiliating. Boohoo.

Glad you kept the rubber glove incident to yourself.

[gdhm]

^^ I was caned across the hand in Maptaphut Immigration office and made to stand in a corner for an hour.

I also had to write; "I must not slouch at the counter during application of visa" 100 times. It was soooooooo humiliating. Boohoo.

Glad you kept the rubber glove incident to yourself.

LOL

Dave

[Patex]

...IF you can demonstrate to me and others that what I say is not accurate AND you can show that their manner, smiles and pleasantness wastes ONE SECOND of time then I am happy to review my opinion and even apologise for my comments -but I am sure you cannot...

gdhm,??

Take a stopwatch, stand in front of a mirrow and say: "Thank you" while taking the time... 1, or, if you make a friendly "Thank you", 2 seconds will passing by.

Now let's combine it with a fast, mechanical "Welcome to Thailand" or " Sawasdee krap/ka" + Wai, so we have about 6 sec per person.

Let's say our immi-officer has about 500 people per shift, so this adds up to 3000 seconds or 50 mins.

Let's say our immi-officer has about 6 shifts per week, 50 weeks a year, 40 years until retierement, so this is adding up to 416,666667 days for simulated kindness towards swathes of human flotsam ( ) in his worklife... if I were the immi-officer I would tell you to ###### OFF!

Post 48 from you explained it all, you are a cry-baby

[gdhm]

...IF you can demonstrate to me and others that what I say is not accurate AND you can show that their manner, smiles and pleasantness wastes ONE SECOND of time then I am happy to review my opinion and even apologise for my comments -but I am sure you cannot...

gdhm,??

Take a stopwatch, stand in front of a mirrow and say: "Thank you" while taking the time... 1, or, if you make a friendly "Thank you", 2 seconds will passing by.

Now let's combine it with a fast, mechanical "Welcome to Thailand" or " Sawasdee krap/ka" + Wai, so we have about 6 sec per person.

Let's say our immi-officer has about 500 people per shift, so this adds up to 3000 seconds or 50 mins.

Let's say our immi-officer has about 6 shifts per week, 50 weeks a year, 40 years until retierement, so this is adding up to 416,666667 days for simulated kindness towards swathes of human flotsam ( ) in his worklife... if I were the immi-officer I would tell you to ###### OFF!

Post 48 from you explained it all, you are a cry-baby

Hi Patex,

Said to the wife it is only a matter of time before someone attacks me for standing up for basic politeness and who wants to justify the opposite.

Actually Post #8 explained it all

(Extract) ... In case you feel I am being unfair I will give an example. Last September my Thai wife and I visited an Immigration Bureau Office to change/extent my Visa to a Retirement Visa. We were told to take a number and we would be dealt with in turn.

The person before us left the Interview room and my wife and I entered. We both said "sawadee Kap/Ka" and sat down in front of the Immigration officer. He looked up and in a cold unsmiling and abrupt voice said and I quote EXACTLY

"I did not invite you to come in, GET OUT(raised voice) and sit outside until I call you".

We apologised for our error and "crawled" out of his office.

The waiting queue outside heard all this and were open mouthed and sympathetic to us as we emerged from his office. We were informed by some of them that others have experienced similar in the past at that office, especially from that officer.

There is NO EXCUSE. If ANYBODY thinks ANY human being deserves to be treated and spoken to like that....

Your argument I feel is insulting to the ability of Immigration Officers All over the World (not just Thailand) and the ability of ALL human beings to be able do 2 (or more) things at once.

I'll bet you, it takes longer to pass a passport back to a person than to say "Thank you". Unless you are suggesting a Immigration officer cannot do the 2 thing as once (which of course he can).

I pity you that you spent all that time doing mathematics to try and prove your point based purely on the assumption that "only one thing can be done at once" (scientifically and totally incorrect).

I have worked with the public I am not a "cry baby" (thanks for the insult) and I always managed basic politeness without wasting time. It is typical that those with weak arguments to resort to insults of sneer, flotsam, idiotic passengers and cry babies.

People who think basic politeness is correct and desirable are not cry babies, flotsam or idiot passengers.

OH by the way not every person who is polite is doing "simulated kindness towards swathes of human flotsam ( )". BOY are some people CYNICAL.

I am sure if you were an Immigration Officer you would tell me to ###### OFF! Thankfully you are not and Immigration Offciers are not that rude.

Why do you think they should have reason to tell me to ###### OFF! I have NEVER been rude of abrupt to them (Oh I SEE!! . Maybe its because I smile and say " Sawasdee krap" and "Thank you" that YOU think I am wasting their time with such pleasantries and they would much sooner I behaved differently???? I THINK NOT

I could respond as rudely and offensively as I feel you have to me, but I STILL stand for basic politeness between all human beings (and always will).

If I accept your views and logic Patex, I will have to believe you are are not polite or friendly to anybody you meet (except friends and family) as it wastes too many seconds. However, I suspect you do not practise what you are preaching here to me, and that you ARE normally polite and friendly as I am.

Finally, I wish to remind you that this thread kicked off saying that the Head of Airport Immigration agrees with those that feel his Immigrations Officers have room for improvement on this one issue. So what does that say for your case against his opinion. I am sure he is the expert and would not waste his OR his busy officers time on unnecessary Etiquette courses, if not beneficial.

I suppose you will come back with some clever silly retort like "he recognises there are idiotic and cry baby passengers and is catering for this type of flotsam"

At the end of the day Patex, we beg to totally differ over this issue. Its a free World .

HAVE A NICE DAY

(wasted 20 seconds. 3 thinking it, 5 typing it, 2 spell checking it, 10 doing the mathematics ).

Regards, Dave

Edited January 31, 2007 by gdhm

[posh]

In overseas Thailand is referred as "Land of thousands smiles". I'm just wondering where it gets it name from?

1st thing 1st, visitors 1st contact with Thailand probably are the customer officers. Does anyone share with my experience that Bangkok customer officers always pulling a long face. At some moment I even mistaken I've owed them huge sum of money. I mostly don't feel welcome at the moment of my touched down. Very often after greeting them only to make myself a fool out of myself.... they just stare at me 'angrily'.

In fact, I find Thai are friendlier and nicer than the officials. Shouldn't the officials need education in being friendly or at least the basic of customer service to make visitors feel welcome? or maybe they should learn from their citizens?

Edited April 2, 2007 by maestro
Post moved here from another topic.