Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

51 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

  

The premise of the article is not that the appointment of the presidents secretary is undemocratic but that the appointing was partial, the president filled the post quickly giving his associate the job, that's not a lack of democracy that's cronyism hence why they liken it to an old boys club rather than a dictatorship and that says something about Junker and the EPP but not the EU itself.  I can't believe you want to vote for the secretary!  They just organise the agenda and the minutes for the commission, very boring "power".

 

The reason for the rise in the right wing parties is that some people have been using these false premises to slander the EU, people don't fact check, they just go with the rhetoric.

 

78 MEP's would be more effective if the 24 UKIP MEP's were replaced by people who wanted to get things done rather than not take part out of protest.  UKIP cost us 30% of power in the EU whilst simultaneously shouting about wanting the UK to have more power in the EU.  The 10% that we are is not everything anyway as they all come from different parties and are in different groups so they are never voting as a country, that is something for the council and they have a single representative from each country, our PM, the structure of the EU parliament is that even a party with 1 seat can join a group that has the most power.  If you want to get your voice heard then be careful which group you are voting for, not just the MEP or their sub-party.

I can only judge the EU on the basis of its manifesto.... more federalism etc  and the quality of the people in office also the problems as exhibited by member states. You must choose your own parameters 

 

What false premises. Look at the voting patterns in Germany, France, Italy et al. nothing false about them.

 

There's a thought UKIP are to blame!

[CG1 Blue]

56 minutes ago, tebee said:

The problem we have now is the irish border. the government has already given a legally binding commitment  to there not being border checks between the north and south of Ireland. 

 

The only way this can be done is by Northern Ireland staying in the CU and SM - all other hi-tech solutions are fairytales.

 

But if we leave either the CU or SM  that means we need a border between NI and the rest of the UK.

 

The DUP are never going to stand for that. May needs the DUP for her majority.

 

I can't see any way we can leave the CU and maintain our commitments.

 

Plus, of course, leaving the CU will kill off a good percentage of UK manufacturing.

You may call all other high tech solutions fairy tales, but I disagree. The trouble we have is that one side (the UK) knows a solution can be found with a combination of common sense, cooperation and technology, whereas the other side (the EU and Remain supporters) want to use the NI issue to their advantage.

[malagateddy]

You may call all other high tech solutions fairy tales, but I disagree. The trouble we have is that one side (the UK) knows a solution can be found with a combination of common sense, cooperation and technology, whereas the other side (the EU and Remain supporters) want to use the NI issue to their advantage.

I honestly feel that it is getting close ti where we say to the eu.."gi forth and multiply"..hard brexit time ..then watch many eu countries squeal..no money no money..gotta stand up now and be counted!!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

When did you get to vote for your Prime Minister?

I only ever got to elect an MP.  My understanding is that the Queen generally invites the leader of the biggest gang in Parliament to be her Prime Minister, and if my MP is not in that gang, he and I have no say in who is our Prime Minister.   Not like the US, where the President, Senate, Congress, Governor, Mayor, Sherriff and bin men are all separately elected.

Sherriff! 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'd be happy if we could be in a customs union without all the binds that come with it, but that's never going to happen (the 'cake and eat it' scenario).

 

I found something that outlines the case against staying in the CU.  It's a bit of a long read, but might answer your question.  I'll paste an extract before the link to save some time.

 

"The economic arguments against staying in the EU Customs Union are important, but the political and constitutional consequences are even more profound, and seem to be completely ignored those who argue for negotiating to stay inside "the" or "a" Customs Union. As explained below, remaining in the EU customs union would have profound implications for the ability of the UK to govern itself as an independent nation, and would deprive it of the ability to decide its own laws over very wide fields of domestic policy extending far beyond customs controls themselves.
It would also prevent the UK from exercising an independent trade policy or concluding its own trade agreements with states outside the EU, and would inevitably result in the UK being subject to the continuing jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) over the interpretation and application of the common rules which regulate the customs union. 

Article 66 (Turkey are in the CU but not the EU)

Turkey is required to “align itself with Common Customs Tariff” (Article 13(1)) and also to “adjust its customs tariff whenever necessary to take account of changes in the Common Customs Tariff” (Article 13(2)). Turkey has no right to be involved in the EC’s decisions on changing its Tariff, but under Article 14(1) is to be “informed” of such decisions “in sufficient time for it simultaneously to align the Turkish customs tariff on the Common Customs Tariff.”
 

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/eu-deal-customs-union.shtml

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that but next time try and find a neutral source not Lawyersforbritain!

 

https://brexitcentral.com/author/martin-howe-qc/

 

The Economist, as usual, has a balanced view

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21737482-issue-was-barely-mentioned-referendum-campaign-has-emerged-big-obstacle-what

Edited April 19, 2018 by Grouse

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thanks for that but next time try and find a neutral source not Lawyersforbritain!

 

https://brexitcentral.com/author/martin-howe-qc/

So now we need neutral sources. Shame, this site looks so interesting.

[Grouse]

 

watch this. Essential for British men.

[CG1 Blue]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thanks for that but next time try and find a neutral source not Lawyersforbritain!

 

https://brexitcentral.com/author/martin-howe-qc/

 

The Economist, as usual, has a balanced view

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21737482-issue-was-barely-mentioned-referendum-campaign-has-emerged-big-obstacle-what

So you and the other remainers get to post pro-EU articles, but I have to find neutral articles - how is that fair?

 

Besides, is there any truly neutral commentary on this topic?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

So you and the other remainers get to post pro-EU articles, but I have to find neutral articles - how is that fair?

 

Besides, is there any truly neutral commentary on this topic?

Yes, The Economist

 

For the record, I don't do fair.

[CG1 Blue]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, The Economist

 

For the record, I don't do fair.

Is that the same 'neutral' Economist that endorsed the Lib Dems in the snap election, the Lib Dems who essentially had a Remain manifesto?

[aright]

36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, The Economist

 

For the record, I don't do fair.

Shagging brunettes all the time...........boring 

At the fringe this year try Edinburgh gingers. Make sure they show colour of collar and cuff  before you pay. (apologies but you do sound like a man who has to pay) Some of them cheat and be very wary when they get on the ginger ale. As for foreplay "haw ye awake " is enough. Me? don't ask.  

[Grouse]

34 minutes ago, aright said:

Shagging brunettes all the time...........boring 

At the fringe this year try Edinburgh gingers. Make sure they show colour of collar and cuff  before you pay. (apologies but you do sound like a man who has to pay) Some of them cheat and be very wary when they get on the ginger ale. As for foreplay "haw ye awake " is enough. Me? don't ask.  

My first wife was a redhead. Recommended. (She's just divorced her fifth husband)

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

My first wife was a redhead. Recommended. (She's just divorced her fifth husband)

That was me.

[aright]

1 minute ago, talahtnut said:

That was me.

It's true testament to Grouse's romantic and sexual prowess that four husbands later she still has not found anyone who can ring her door bell like the famous Grouse 

[talahtnut]

36 minutes ago, aright said:

It's true testament to Grouse's romantic and sexual prowess that four husbands later she still has not found anyone who can ring her door bell like the famous Grouse 

'Grouse's romantic and sexual prowess'..now there's another topic for

a small debate.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

My first wife was a redhead. Recommended. (She's just divorced her fifth husband)

I knew it, such taste!

[tebee]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You may call all other high tech solutions fairy tales, but I disagree. The trouble we have is that one side (the UK) knows a solution can be found with a combination of common sense, cooperation and technology, whereas the other side (the EU and Remain supporters) want to use the NI issue to their advantage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/19/exclusive-eu-rejects-theresa-mays-brexit-irish-border-solution/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AqhjMKD5W14H

[simoh1490]

This is an odd article but I'll post it anyway, simply because my Brexit chums deserve the occasional flood of endorphins when good news emerges. What the article says is that there will probably be no further decline in Sterling and everything will be rosy from here on, no matter what happens to Brexit - it even suggests that a few nasties may still be slipped into the final Brexit deal and the Pound wont care. No matter that the Pound's performance is being measured against USD which in itself has fallen by 10% over the year, the Pound is getting stronger the article tells us! In fact, what is really being said is, the UK is leaving in name only hence the financial impact will be minimal, all of which seems very sensible to me:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/19/recovery-sterling-shows-markets-have-made-minds-brexit/

[simoh1490]

This article is truly interesting, it sets out the variables that will impact the Brexit bill:

 

• Changes in the exchange rate, because the final bill is payable in euros. The Treasury used a rate of 1.13 euros to the pound for its estimate
•  
• Differences in Britain’s economic performance. The U.K. will pay as normal into the EU
• budget in 2019 and 2020, even as it officially departs the bloc. The value of those payments will vary according to how the U.K. economy performs in relation to the rest of the EU
•  
• Economic performance will over the next two years will also affect Britain’s share of EU liabilities after 2020
•  
• Estimates of future pension liabilities for EU officials are based on assumptions on mortality rates and future salary increases, all of which may turn out differently
•  
• The EU can request up to five months of budget payments in the first three months of a calendar year, and Treasury assumptions are based on this happening in the first quarter of 2019, leading up to the scheduled Brexit day of March 29. If it doesn’t happen, that means extra payments of as much as 3 billion pounds will be made after Brexit, technically increasing the post-departure bill
•  
• U.K. commitments to the European Development Fund are expected to cost 2.9 billion pounds after Brexit. But they’re not included in the total for the bill, because the fund is not established under EU treaties
•  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/u-k-auditor-warns-brexit-bill-could-exceed-39-billion-pounds

 

It's worth noting that the UK Auditor is already suggesting the Brexit bill will exceed £39 bill.

Edited April 20, 2018 by simoh1490

[Grouse]

17 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

watch this. Essential for British men.

And see how nasty we have become.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/theresa-may-ignored-home-office-warnings-migrant-policies-hostile-environment-windrush-immigrant-a8312996.html

 

It embarrasses me ?

[rufanuf]

18 hours ago, Grouse said:

Thanks for that but next time try and find a neutral source not Lawyersforbritain!

 

https://brexitcentral.com/author/martin-howe-qc/

 

The Economist, as usual, has a balanced view

 

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21737482-issue-was-barely-mentioned-referendum-campaign-has-emerged-big-obstacle-what

"Neutral Sources" Laughable as there aren't any.

[CG1 Blue]

10 hours ago, tebee said:

18 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You may call all other high tech solutions fairy tales, but I disagree. The trouble we have is that one side (the UK) knows a solution can be found with a combination of common sense, cooperation and technology, whereas the other side (the EU and Remain supporters) want to use the NI issue to their advantage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/19/exclusive-eu-rejects-theresa-mays-brexit-irish-border-solution/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AqhjMKD5W14H

This proves my point.  The EU don't want a solution so they will reject any proposals.

[talahtnut]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

This article is truly interesting, it sets out the variables that will impact the Brexit bill:

 

• Changes in the exchange rate, because the final bill is payable in euros. The Treasury used a rate of 1.13 euros to the pound for its estimate
•  
• Differences in Britain’s economic performance. The U.K. will pay as normal into the EU
• budget in 2019 and 2020, even as it officially departs the bloc. The value of those payments will vary according to how the U.K. economy performs in relation to the rest of the EU
•  
• Economic performance will over the next two years will also affect Britain’s share of EU liabilities after 2020
•  
• Estimates of future pension liabilities for EU officials are based on assumptions on mortality rates and future salary increases, all of which may turn out differently
•  
• The EU can request up to five months of budget payments in the first three months of a calendar year, and Treasury assumptions are based on this happening in the first quarter of 2019, leading up to the scheduled Brexit day of March 29. If it doesn’t happen, that means extra payments of as much as 3 billion pounds will be made after Brexit, technically increasing the post-departure bill
•  
• U.K. commitments to the European Development Fund are expected to cost 2.9 billion pounds after Brexit. But they’re not included in the total for the bill, because the fund is not established under EU treaties
•  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/u-k-auditor-warns-brexit-bill-could-exceed-39-billion-pounds

 

It's worth noting that the UK Auditor is already suggesting the Brexit bill will exceed £39 bill.

Peanuts.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Peanuts.

Cashews

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Cashews

Bless you!

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, aright said:

At the last General Election when I voted for my MP who endorsed the Prime minister.

And the Prime Minister then endorsed the EU commissioner. So if as you say,

"I use my vote regularly in the UK to vote for officials from the Prime Minister down to local community representatives.", you are also including the EU commissioner among those officials you used your vote for.

[sandyf]

That cake with the cherries on top again.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-regional-specialities-eu-protect-trade-deal-europe-cheese-food-drink-wine-a8312171.html

[HAKAPALITA]

28 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Peanuts.

Good Saving on your daily handouts then.Your a funny lot Brits, you dont give a dam for your Pensioners who created the wealth.Your pensions are way behind Germans, yet you supossedly won WW2, and helped Norway who has fair pension.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Good Saving on your daily handouts then.Your a funny lot Brits, you dont give a dam for your Pensioners who created the wealth.Your pensions are way behind Germans, yet you supossedly won WW2, and helped Norway who has fair pension.

That's because being noble and honourable and making our own decisions is all that matters, free from the shackles of interference of our EU puppetmasters.........that and blue passports, maypole dancing and Marstons Pedigree.

Edited April 20, 2018 by simoh1490

[aright]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And the Prime Minister then endorsed the EU commissioner. So if as you say,

"I use my vote regularly in the UK to vote for officials from the Prime Minister down to local community representatives.", you are also including the EU commissioner among those officials you used your vote for.

"The appointment sparked a furore in Brussels, with MEPs complaining that the appointment was orchestrated in secret, which made the EU look like an "old boys' club." 

Mr Selmayr was reportedly handed the job by Mr Juncker in a matter of minutes, following the sudden retirement of his predecessor, Alexander Italianer."

It seems to me no one endorsed Mr Selmayr or are you saying in the few minutes it took Mr. Juncker to appoint him he gave Mrs May a phone call. Mr Junkers sense of democracy came to the fore when he threatened to resign if Mr Selmayr was not appointed.