Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[tebee]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I have little sympathy for you. You were too late for the referendum but are you on the electoral roll now?

 

You should have applied earlier to the electoral office that you last voted in.

 

I did and have named my close friend as my proxy voter. Taunton Deane council send me a reminder every January to renew.

 

I was on the electoral roll and voted in the 2015 election by post. Was expecting to to get a postal vote for the ref too, but when I contacted them they said I'd been gone for more than the 15 year limit.  I checked up on my paperwork and found I'd been  on the roll at my UK address is 2003. so told them they were wrong. they didn't get back to me until 3 days before the referendum, so not time to arrange anything.

 

As of this year I have no UK vote anyway - do you think that is fair ?  

[transam]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

I was on the electoral roll and voted in the 2015 election by post. Was expecting to to get a postal vote for the ref too, but when I contacted them they said I'd been gone for more than the 15 year limit.  I checked up on my paperwork and found I'd been  on the roll at my UK address is 2003. so told them they were wrong. they didn't get back to me until 3 days before the referendum, so not time to arrange anything.

 

As of this year I have no UK vote anyway - do you think that is fair ?  

Seems real born Scots could not vote in their independence ref either if they lived and worked in the England...I don't think that was fair.

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

I was on the electoral roll and voted in the 2015 election by post. Was expecting to to get a postal vote for the ref too, but when I contacted them they said I'd been gone for more than the 15 year limit.  I checked up on my paperwork and found I'd been  on the roll at my UK address is 2003. so told them they were wrong. they didn't get back to me until 3 days before the referendum, so not time to arrange anything.

 

As of this year I have no UK vote anyway - do you think that is fair ?  

 

That is the law of the UK and has been for 15 years. What is fair and what is the law may be 2 different things, and no, I don't think that is fair, nor do I think frozen pensions are fair.

 

The way to change things is to pester your MP,  find organisations that want to change things and join them actively. Telling me and everybody on TVF that things aren't fair achieves nothing. Nobody here individually can do anything.

 

If you have a family in the UK who vote then get them to pester their MP.

 

There was supposed to be a question on the floor of parliament about the 15 year rule in February this year but the people at Taunton Deane electoral office told me that it had not been changed at the time I renewed.

Edited April 28, 2018 by billd766
edit for bad spelling after I had posted

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Seems real born Scots could not vote in their independence ref either if they lived and worked in the England...I don't think that was fair.

 

What do you mean by 'real born Scot'?  Really born in Scotland?  It is not about where you were born, it is about where you live, people who live in Scotland but were born outside get to decide on Scottish issues, people born in Scotland but living outside do not, seems fair to me.  Expats wanting to make decisions they will not live under would be horribly unfair in my opinion.

 

[tebee]

44 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

It doesn't really matter what I believe as Brexit is going ahead anyway despite the Remainers efforts and has been for quite a while.

.

 

28 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What is going ahead is the exit process, not Brexit itself.  In order to complete the exit process all the replacement treaties need to be ratified by the EU, we need them to agree to the terms and they don't want us to leave, they are not going to make it easy, that is very clear and as things stand can you see that that is actually a little unlikely that we are going to come to terms in time?

 Indeed and we have to remember that the default is if we can not get an agreement sorted out by March 2019 we leave without one.

 

22 months have past since the referendum and we have 11 to go. No one in the government has yet been able to decide what we want from  our leaving deal  ! We are rapidly running out of time - this is why many of us think it will all be abandoned at the last moment . No party or government wants to be blamed for the disaster of a chaotic hard brexit with no deal. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What do you mean by 'real born Scot'?  Really born in Scotland?  It is not about where you were born, it is about where you live, people who live in Scotland but were born outside get to decide on Scottish issues, people born in Scotland but living outside do not, seems fair to me.  Expats wanting to make decisions they will not live under would be horribly unfair in my opinion.

 

Well that is where we disagree, if a Scot works in the UK but wants to retire in Scotland, or get a future job in Scotland he has no say, but if an African (for instance) wants to work in Scotland then retire in his homeland he can vote...

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Well that is where we disagree, if a Scot works in the UK but wants to retire in Scotland, or get a future job in Scotland he has no say, but if an African (for instance) wants to work in Scotland then retire in his homeland he can vote...

 

Would you give the vote to an African who, although having already retired in their home country in Africa, still has their British passport that they obtained due to living and working in Scotland for five years?  And if not, how exactly would you distinguish between them and another Scot who was living outside of Scotland?

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 Indeed and we have to remember that the default is if we can not get an agreement sorted out by March 2019 we leave without one.

 

22 months have past since the referendum and we have 11 to go. No one in the government has yet been able to decide what we want from  our leaving deal  ! We are rapidly running out of time - this is why many of us think it will all be abandoned at the last moment . No party or government wants to be blamed for the disaster of a chaotic hard brexit with no deal. 

 

Did they manage to pass the bill that gave MP's the chance to vote on the final deal?  A no deal would be no good, it would put countless businesses into immediate jeopardy, the economy would tank and big time, if it comes down to it they would not let it happen, but they could go the temporary deal route to buy some more time.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Would you give the vote to an African who, although having already retired in their home country in Africa, still has their British passport that they obtained due to living and working in Scotland for five years?  And if not, how exactly would you distinguish between them and another Scot who was living outside of Scotland?

Because the Scots bloke is Scottish, born and bred...Family history, all that stuff......

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Because the Scots bloke is Scottish, born and bred...Family history, all that stuff......

 

So you would seek a system based on ethnicity?  Would that not be in breach of the Equality Act?  I think it would also be in breach of the UN Intentional Declaration of Human Rights, you can't go discriminating against a citizen just because they were born in Africa, so it is either you forgo the rights of the citizenship holder who has left and also the Scottish born citizen who has left, or neither, so which would you choose?

Edited April 28, 2018 by Kieran00001

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did they manage to pass the bill that gave MP's the chance to vote on the final deal?  A no deal would be no good, it would put countless businesses into immediate jeopardy, the economy would tank and big time, if it comes down to it they would not let it happen, but they could go the temporary deal route to buy some more time.

I don't think they have voted on that yet ?

 

Temporary deal is not going to happen unless we find a solution  to the NI border problem .

Only workable one on offer now is to remain in the CU and SM - the brexit in name only option.

 

But we are running out of time to negotiate anything. only thing gov can do is to capitulate to whatever the EU offers.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

So you would seek a system based on ethnicity?  Would that not be in breach of the Equality Act?

I don't give a flying _____ about an Equality act, where one is born and raised is all that matters to me...

[Grouse]

Radio 4 reported that David Davis is on the point of resigning because May wants CU deal with EU 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Grouse

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I don't give a flying _____ about an Equality act, where one is born and raised is all that matters to me...

 

Well, we are not in the business of ignoring laws, both national and international, so if you don't like the law then make your vote count.  But don't hold your breath, we signed international agreements that prevent the type of discrimination you are seeking from being able to be implemented in any UN state, we are not actually able to give any one ethnicity greater rights than another in the UK unless we leave the UN, do you see that happening?

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't give a flying _____ about an Equality act, where one is born and raised is all that matters to me...

 

Another example, what about a child of an African born person who gained British citizenship while living and working in Scotland who, although now living in a country in Africa, also has a British passport, can that Scottish born and bred person vote in your idea?

[malagateddy]

WTR will do me nicely..lets see what an insolvent eu does at that point..please remember that the german car industry will suffer greatly

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Another example, what about a child of an African born person who gained British citizenship while living and working in Scotland who, although now living in a country in Africa, also has a British passport, can that Scottish born and bred person vote in your idea?

Born Scots have a Brit passport and could not vote in the Scots Independence thing..Do you have a ploblem understanding that fact ...

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Radio 4 reported that David Davis is on the point of resigning because May wants CU deal with EU 

WoW, insider info.....

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

WTR will do me nicely..lets see what an insolvent eu does at that point..please remember that the german car industry will suffer greatly

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I guess you meant WTO?  And the EU is in no way heading towards insolvency, GDP growth last year was 2.4%, while the UK grew 0.4% and is now down to 0.1%, if anywhere is heading toward insolvency then it is the UK.  As for the German car market, EU car sales increased 13% last year while British car sales decreased by 5.7%, forget Brexit, Germany are already feeling the loss of  UK sales due to our rubbish economy ever since the crisis, but the economic recovery of the EU as a whole is dwarfing that and so despite the UK loss they are already almost back to pre crisis levels and expected to exceed them by the end of this year.  Sure, Germany would take a loss if we leave without a deal, their car exports to the UK amount to almost 2% of their GDP, but considering their total economic growth of 2.2% last year combined with a budget surplus of 45 billion, they are clearly in a better position to cope with Brexit that then UK with our growth of less than half a percent and a budget deficit of 46 billion.

[Kieran00001]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Born Scots have a Brit passport and could not vote in the Scots Independence thing..Do you have a ploblem understanding that fact ...

 

My question was regarding a born Scot with a British passport who happens to be of African decent and is now living back in Africa.  Are you saying you would give the Scottish born British passport holding child of an immigrant who has already left for their home country the vote so as to be able to give all Scottish born British passport holders the vote?  It's either that or you give neither the vote.  It really is one or the other, you choose.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Kieran00001

[Cake Monster]

The whole Brexit issue was an ill thought out vote by the 51%

With Bo-Jo spreading from a ruddy great Red Bus that 350 Million per week would be ploughed back into the NHS, all this managed to achieve was food to the people that voted for out of the EU, basing their vote on the misery inflicted upon them by all the austerity, and for no other reason

A backlash vote 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

My question was regarding a born Scot with a British passport who happens to be of African decent and is now living back in Africa.  Are you saying you would give the Scottish born British passport holding child of an immigrant who has already left for their home country the vote so as to be able to give all Scottish born British passport holders the vote?  It's either that or you give neither the vote.  It really is one or the other, you choose.

Yes...The bloke or bird can vote, the same as a Scot Brit PP holder, but they cannot...

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

My question was regarding a born Scot with a British passport who happens to be of African decent and is now living back in Africa.  Are you saying you would give the Scottish born British passport holding child of an immigrant who has already left for their home country the vote so as to be able to give all Scottish born British passport holders the vote?  It's either that or you give neither the vote.  It really is one or the other, you choose.

Do you honestly think an African who has worked in Scotland for 5 years and has since returned to Africa is really bothered about what happens in Scotland. Have you been someone else on Thaivisa, you certainly remind me of someone who posted similar analogys.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Do you honestly think an African who has worked in Scotland for 5 years and has since returned to Africa is really bothered about what happens in Scotland. Have you been someone else on Thaivisa, you certainly remind me of someone who posted similar analogys.

 

It is not the point, I am discussing the implications of the law that they propose.  And no, I have always been me, thanks.

[tebee]

34 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

WTR will do me nicely..lets see what an insolvent eu does at that point..please remember that the german car industry will suffer greatly

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The thing is there has been zero preparation for having to trade on WTO rules. We need infrastructure to do cucustoms inspections and collect the duties. 

 

To quote   David Allen Green
‏

The lack of any planning or infrastructure for there to be any realistic option other than continuing with the customs union is what pro-Brexit ministers should be resigning over.

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Don't worry, unless you had another 1,269,501 votes then it wouldn't have made any difference.

Brexiteer mathematics, about 650,000 would have had Nigel Farage claiming the result invalid.

 

The government deliberately denied a large number of expats the right to vote and a couple of months later announced they would lift the law they had recently claimed had to be enforced. A law that in 2014 they had pledged to remove.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3827249/Expats-given-vote-life-Tories-unveil-plan-lift-15-year-limit-barred-3million-Britons-voting-general-elections.html

 

The briefing paper published last month indicates that it is still 'work in progress'

Not surprising, wouldn't want it before a second referendum, or even the next general election.

[tebee]

The CBI warns Liam Fox's Brexit trade plans could bankrupt British companies

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbi-warns-liam-foxs-trade-dealrollover-plan-risks-a-cliff-edge-brexit-2018-4

[transam]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

The CBI warns Liam Fox's Brexit trade plans could bankrupt British companies

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbi-warns-liam-foxs-trade-dealrollover-plan-risks-a-cliff-edge-brexit-2018-4

Some said the same about Hitler stuff...

[sandyf]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

The thing is there has been zero preparation for having to trade on WTO rules. We need infrastructure to do cucustoms inspections and collect the duties. 

 

To quote   David Allen Green
‏

The lack of any planning or infrastructure for there to be any realistic option other than continuing with the customs union is what pro-Brexit ministers should be resigning over.

Exactly, and it is not just the border control that is a problem, some just want to stick their head in the sand in respect of the human aspect.

 

I was exporting to the EU before the single market came into being. Many small businesses came to us looking for information and many walked away shaking their head saying why do you put up with the hassle.

With the additional paperwork and the possibility of having to recertify, many will kick exporting into touch and downsize the business.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What is going ahead is the exit process, not Brexit itself.  In order to complete the exit process all the replacement treaties need to be ratified by the EU, we need them to agree to the terms and they don't want us to leave, they are not going to make it easy, that is very clear and as things stand can you see that that is actually a little unlikely that we are going to come to terms in time?

According to a commentator on Bloomberg (Barry Ritholtz) Brexit looks more and more unlikely every day, likening it to a lost episode of faulty towers.