Buying Older Used Car From Car Dealer

[Firefan]

Besides the obvious: bringing somebody knowledgable about cars to check it out are there other tips and tricks that people with experience in buying used cars in Thailand can give?

Example; does it really matter much if the car have been re-painted from original color?

What kind of discount have people been able to negotiate on used cars? I have heard that one can get further discount by offering to pay cash rather than getting it financed (as dealer saves time/does not have to wait for approval - maybe losing another client Etc.).

A simple phone call on a 500k Baht car dropped the price to 480k without me mentioning a further cash discount. I have heard that the cash discount in itself can be 10-15%.

Other ideas; like asking for extras/modifications, or any good negotiation tips are appreciated.

Cheers!

[Clipped]

in thailand cars in their original state are easier to resell when the time comes...a repainte car is just another way to get your selilng price down by the buyer.

dont buy a repainted car, unless it is the same color in the registration book and has not ever been changed.

dont believe the odometer....

look for wear on the steering wheel and accelerator/ brake pedals....

push down on the outside of the car towards the ground for each corner, shocks that return within 2 bounces is ok, anyting over2 bounces means its been driven pretty rough.

underneath the hood where the hood meets the latch...on that piece of metal there are bullet sized holes, those holes shouldretain a sharp edge, if they are dull more than likely it was in a heavy accident...

check the strut bolts (shock bolts) they should not have any signs of loosening or tightening, if they do, it means that the struts have probably been taken off to repair a hard front collision.

[bino]

Thai people do like to dress up their cars and drive something different from everyone else, and paint their cars with a custom paint job. I saw a really cool looking Honda Jazz with a dark purple metallic paint job a few days ago.

However, repainting can be a sign that a car has been in an accident... especially so if the new paint is in one area only. IE one fender or door is a darker shade than the rest of the car. If the accident was minor and repairs were done properly, you might be able to negotiate a good deal on a car like this if you point out to the salesman that the car has been damaged before and push him hard.

If the car has been completely repainted, it may have been in a very bad accident such as a roll-over, causing structural damage to the entire unit-frame of the car. When a car is damaged this badly, it is almost impossible to make it perfect again. If the repairs are shoddy, you may have problems with wheel alignment, steering, tracking, tires wearing quickly, etc.

So- unless the paint job is done to customize the car, I would be very suspicious and inspect the car thoroughly for structural damage before buying a repainted car.

A few good indicators that you can check for structural damage;

Pull the rubber door molding off the door frame close to the roof of the car and door pillars on all the doors, and look for suspicious looking folds, ridges or creases indicating that the metal has been bent and straightened.

Get a flashlight and have a good look in the trunk (boot if you're from the UK) of the car, paying close attention to the top corners and front- close to where the metal meets the rear window and rear doors. Look for similar damage as described above. Also- the color of the paint in these areas is likely to tell you the original color of the car, as most repainters don't bother with these areas.

Get someone else to drive the car on a test drive, while you follow behind in another car. Look to see that the car is driving "straight", and that the front wheels appear to line up with the rear wheels. Cars that have had a bent frame will often appear to drive "crooked" or "sideways", or the wheels will not appear to line up when you follow them.

Unless you are working with a very small budget and trying to get the best deal / cheapest car possible, I would look for a car that has its original paint and suggest just avoiding any car that has been repainted.

[tutsiwarrior]

I bought a 10 y.o. Nissan minivan from the BMTA...nice interior/exterior but beat to shit otherwise for about USD5k, knew we were gonna haveta spend money on sum repairs...now, after an engine rebuild and new brakes runs a treat...the tranny and suspension are a bit rough but we can live widdit...lucky to have family an' friends do the repairs, got the parts at cost and paid a daily rate for labor...

get a thai person to do the negotiatin'; I was lucky as one of the bros-in-laws is a prof driver and knew the ins an' outs...beware the roadside dealers with nicely resprayed pieces ob shit. I knew exactly what I wanted, a people mover, and we located a source immediately. If yer wantin' a nice sedan or pickup you are at a disadvantage just like folks all over the world with stinkin' used car dealers...

keep yer head down an' yer eyes open and mebbe you'll be lucky...I just love pilin' into the truck wid de family with my vodka an' ice an' movin' on down de road...

[fisherd3]

Only yesterday my old lady went into adealer to look at a Suzuki Vitara we had seen on one2car, looked fantastic for 1999, but the guy she took with her to help told her it had been in a big accident been resprayed and had even had the engine changed! So if its old and looks too pretty think twice.

[Firefan]

Thanks for some great tips sofar guys! I went to some dealers and they were quickly aware that I was an "expert" seeing me pushing down on the car corners, pulling of rubber lists, checking engine area edges, checking boot for original color Etc.

Lowered prices from original price given seem to be in the 10% range, but one can add extras such as "warranty" of 2 months - originally only on engine/gear, but after pressing them they would include all for the first month(argument being; hey, if you don't even trust it can run for ONE month without trouble, I do not want to buy it!).

Paying cash can also help in the negotiations - saves dealer the paper work/hassle/time/risk of deal not being approved.

Also used your tips to press them on paying transfer fees Etc. Also they would fix any imperfections Etc. on the car.

Most would also give free workmanship for the first 1-2 months for changes(pimp my ride!) one might have (but pay spares yourself).

More tips on buying used cars here always appreciated! CHeers!

[wilko]

look at the gaps/lines around the doors, and bonnet/hood lid etc...they should be perfectly parrallel; if not WHY? usually because the car has been in a crunch and the overall shape is now out of whack.

as earlier posters have said, ignore the odometer and look instaed for wear and tear...seats don't wear much in 50k but they do after 150k, look at the pedals and steering wheel.

[stingray]

Question: Is there any car wich are not repainted after then years? Have to think locigal. How many schratch they got even in 1 year, motorcycles. shopping carts, parking damages from other peaples when hit theyr doors at your car, because the small parking spaces? So if a car has 25 small scratches, how they should be repaired? There is only a complete paintjob, otherwise you have 6 different colors on your car. repairing or repainting complete is not much different in the price, because labour is not expepsive overhere. To keep a older car in original paint is only one way: Don't use it, keep him in a garage. If you using cars they get damaged. I got 6 schratches in my car in the last 6 months. As i sayd, mosthly shopping carts in the Shopping centres, motorbikes snikes arround on the redlight, etc. Repair only the parts cost mayby 6'000 Baht. repaint the whole car (looks like new) cost 15'000 Baht. So wy not repaint everything? If you don't care, buy a junk, 35 year old Toyota pick up truck, then you don't need to worry about paintdamages. So in Thailand you can not even think to find a older used car in original paint, unless you buy a 6 months old car, wich is driven only sundays to the church.

[Firefan]

Good point Stingray. I am looking at rather old (cheap..) "speciality" sports cars and there is very little on those cars that have NOT been changed to be honest. Sometimes only the registration plates remain!

Also I found that, as Bino pointed out, that many of these cars have been modified a lot (often too much....- time for a de-pimping often!) and paint jobs Etc. has been part of that too.

Cheers!

[Cuban]

It's the little things that will really annoy you if you drive away without having checked them first.

Considering the amount of money a car costs few people spend time really looking at what they are buying.

Look at the tyres, side walls and treads, don't forget the spare. Swapping tyres between cars is no big issue for a dealer you might want to consider this as an extra to close the deal.

A nice clean engine bay can sway a buyer, but a wise man will look at the state of the oil, dip stick and inside the filler cap. Maybe a little earier you have asked when it was last serviced? Can you easily see the state of the air filter - some cars they are only held down with an easy release.

When you were looking at the spare was the jack and spanners etc in place or lost.

Take some music with you. Tape/CD etc. to play in the car's ICE, do all speakers work? Does the dealer have the head unit's security code?

With more advanced cars these days it would be wise to consider the impact of accident involvement on any airbags or seat-belt pre-tention devices fitted to cars. One point people so easily forget or are simply unaware of is the material that is used to make selt-belts is designed to flex (give slightly) during an accident as further gentle decelaration of the person it is restraining. Consider a selt-belt like an ejector seat - suitable for use in only one serious accident.

Electric windows, all the way down, all the way up. Then again with the air con running, lights on main beam, but the ignition switch just on postion 2, engine not running. Then start the engine - good to know if you are looking for a new battery soon, and the windows work.

Taking of spares, are they availble locally?

Look at the exahust pipe, inside color should be a dark grey, if there is an oily build up it suggests engine problems. With the engine running place a folded rag over the pipe to block it, the engine should "feel" the resistance and the engine tone change, if you still hear the exhaust sound - you might have a hole in part of the under car silencer etc.

I know of an Alfa Romeo owner that really wished he was closer to the dealer in Bangkok when the gearbox had problems, he has a Mazda now.

Many cars will not display the true milage on the odometer, not much you can do about that, but ask for any log books paperwork that relates to the car.

Keys and remote controls, silly point but do the keys work all the doors? Often remote controls are supplied in pairs - are you getting both of them?

Bottom line - car repair labour costs in Thailand are not expensive and parts for most cars are cheap.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Besides the obvious: bringing somebody knowledgable about cars to check it out are there other tips and tricks that people with experience in buying used cars in Thailand can give?

Example; does it really matter much if the car have been re-painted from original color?

What kind of discount have people been able to negotiate on used cars? I have heard that one can get further discount by offering to pay cash rather than getting it financed (as dealer saves time/does not have to wait for approval - maybe losing another client Etc.).

A simple phone call on a 500k Baht car dropped the price to 480k without me mentioning a further cash discount. I have heard that the cash discount in itself can be 10-15%.

Other ideas; like asking for extras/modifications, or any good negotiation tips are appreciated.

Cheers!

I think it's always risky to buy a second hand car in Thailand. Even Thai I know would never buy one but to family or very close friends.

[Lancashirelad]

Been involved with cars most of my life since age 11 (1st car)

Some excellent advice from other posters, especially Bino's bit about following it to see if it runs crab like down the road.... so easy to spot.

However, I'm suprised at this:

I have heard that one can get further discount by offering to pay cash rather than getting it financed (as dealer saves time/does not have to wait for approval - maybe losing another client Etc.).

In England the dealer would probably be able to offer the better price if you did take the finance as he will get a fairly serious commission kick back on it. I don't know if same applies LOS, but i'd think so.

Here's another useful tip:

to test for a worn clutch: take it for a test drive first so that when you return the engine & transmission are warm. Apply the hand brake very firmly (if it comes up more than about 5-8 notches it needs adjusting).Put the vehicle in top gear, rev up a little, let up the clutch as if trying to set off. If you are able to let the clutch almost to the top of the pedal travel, or worse, all the way but the vehicle doesn't move, yet the engine stays running, the clutch is at or near the end of its life. If it stalls dead, its fine.

Again once hot, rev it hard and suddenly, listen for any noticable engine knocks indicating worn big end or main bearings.

Remove the oil filler cap and also diptsick with the engine idling, is there pressure & smoke indicating a worn engine? Particularly with diesels from the dip stick hole. This indicates crank case compression usually caused by worn bores and/or piston rings, some of the compression is blowing by the worn parts.

(I say usually as it can also be caused by blocked crank case breather filters).

[Lancashirelad now wonders if "used vehicle inspection" is a banned work category for foreigners????]

[wilko]

Buying a second-hand car (privatley) in Thailand is really no more risky than anywhere else.

If you buy privately in almost any country you have virtually no recourse to law whatever happens. However, if you buy off a dealer here you still have very little chance of compensation here....except perhaps a main dealer.

But at the end of the day people in Thailand love their cars and by sheer numbers there must be some good second hand bargains.......and people desperate to sell.

In the end it is up to you to get a good idea of what you're buying....there's been a lot of good advice on the car itself, but it's also worth taking a look at the owner....is he the real owner? Does he/she seem credible? Is there a credible story going with the sale, ehere is the vehicle situated...use all this to build up an holistic picture of the car.If you start by thinking "this is Thailand and it must be a rip-off" you'll never buy a car, get your attitude right and go in looking for facts, evidence and clues, not prejudice, paranoia, and cynicism

[Hssl]

This seems to be the only main dealer style operation which might give you some piece of mind

Try Toyota some main dealers offer 'toyota certified used cars'

Not much of a bargin though when compared to new prices

http://www.toyotasure.com/want_tobuy/index.asp