New Forum For Us Too Fat

[stub]

I'm still not sure about Atkins, has anyone here actually tried it & had success? I always thought the food pyramid was the healthy way to eat. The other problem with me & Atkins is that I naturally have low blood sugar (Mum is an insulin dependent diabetic & seemingly that affected me!?) & carbs - bread, rice, pasta are really important to me. If I had a meal without them, I'd be woozy later on. I do eat brown rice, wholegrain bread etc.

Atkins has been shown to work in tests, and I've had friends who have had great success with it (everyone who stuck with it hit their target weights). The interesting thing is why it works - all the people poo-pooing the diet because they believed losing weight was just a case of eating fewer caleries than you burn where correct. Turns out that people on 'all you can eat' Atkins and other low-carb diets end up consuming fewer calories because a low-carb diet is an appetite suppresant. So if Atkins is too radical for you, there are plenty of other diets out there that work similarly (no carbs after 5, CSIRO, etc.)

[Ijustwannateach]

This thread was just sort of an announcement thread, but has drifted on afterwards in various interesting ways. Let's keep it open for general discussion and miscellaneous contributions. If it spawns any useful topics, maybe we can split them off into threads of their own.

"Steven"

[george]

Hello there,

We have a forum for people Drinking Too Much.

We have a forum for Stop Smoking.

I am 186 cm and weighing 101 kilo.

I am too fat.

I am eating a lot of pizzas and unhealthy food.

How do I manage to be a 'handsome man" again?

Exercise?

Better diet?

Stop eat?

Exersise (can't even spell it!)

How to cook it?

I was lazy - but have to do something about it! NOW!

New forum created. Bookmark it!

Swap the Beer Chang for Diet Coke.

Hey Pong,

would you swap your Penfold red for Diet Coke??

[marshbags]

Hello there,

We have a forum for people Drinking Too Much.

We have a forum for Stop Smoking.

I am 186 cm and weighing 101 kilo.

I am too fat.

I am eating a lot of pizzas and unhealthy food.

How do I manage to be a 'handsome man" again?

Exercise?

Better diet?

Stop eat?

Exersise (can't even spell it!)

How to cook it?

I was lazy - but have to do something about it! NOW!

New forum created. Bookmark it!

This is a good idea and worthwhile for many of our members.

The headline demonstrates you have got a sense of humour and a light hearted approach to the situation.

This is really important when dieting because there is no easy way to get rid of the pounds / kilos and it also sets the enviroment and creates a good relaxed enviroment for all for the group / posters.

Your O.P. is a very honest one and is also humerous and light hearted, both of which are very important.

You are obviously to heavy and need to loose quite a few kilo,s and although without seeing you it is diffficult to judge, i reckon you need to be in the 85 - 90 kilo range to be average and possibly anywhere in that direction will be a good target health wise.

Without seeing you the fat side of things is difficult to assess but as you honestly observe your bodies appearance, based on this you are at the very least over weight.

You are what you eat and pizza,s are loaded with fat, calories and cabrohydrates ( and the other unhealthy stuff ) along with the drink you probably have with it, alcholic or otherwise, unless it,s just plain old water.

I,m not sure about the handsome bit but you will certainly be more attractive to those who like a slimmer person,

Be you male or female.

More important you will be more attractive to yourself, healthier / fitter and more confident and self assured.

I assume we are thinking of people with no apparent health problems that can cause these circmstances and will not prevent you / the group from the normal natural way of getting shut of it all as you do not mention anything.

Your questions as i personally see them.

1) Exercise is very important to get rid of all the weight that has built up over time and to get you to a reasonable state of fitness.

2) A better diet is is essential and what you eat, the quantity and it is important you then eat more often as you cut down and re adjust.

3) You must cut down and posters will be able to recommend good food that will still provide your body with the essential vitamins and minerals it needs to function in a healthy way.

4) There you go, light hearted again and yes it is important enough to mention twice. ( the first speling was correct in my native tongue.)

Remember to get a check up to ascertain you are fit enough and start slowy and build up gradually and do not over do it, if you feel unwell then stop and rest, if it,s not to serious carry on, if it continues go get checked out on what may be something that is serious and do it as soon as possible.

Unfortunately there are those unfortunate enough to be unwell via a pre known health / medical condition and it is not them this advice is aimed at.

We all have family and friends who have certain health problems that cause overweight and we must always show them we care, give them a cuddle / hug sometimes and do our best to cheer them up and help them cope with their situation.

5) Grill, steam or bake and do not use oils to cook it if possible and do not over do it and thereby loose all the vitamins and goodness.

Find alternative ways of doing things, even doing pizzas with healthier ingredients with the help from the more creative of out members.

6) Inactivity is your case is obviously a big factor as you are not burning off all the calories you are consuming.

You have for me pin pointed the main reasons for your weight gains and it can all be summed up in 2 words.

Lifestyle and change.

If you change it and re adjust, and keep it going, then your weight / fat should also stay off as well and you will be able to control the fluctuations with your new acquired knowledge and motivation.

If you change this then your fat will go and you will replace it with muscle.

It is also important to know that muscle is heavy and therefore once you start exercising the the fat will be replaced by muscle.

Consequently the weight reduction slows down and will normally then start to increase as you build muscle up.

Do not worry or be despondent as this is a natural occurance and not the fat coming back.

You usually get signs that tell you when your size is increasing both visual and physical.

Clothes not fitting, the belt having to be let off a notch / hole ect. and this is when you need to re adjust.

While dieting is serious stuff it is also therefore important to have a light hearted approach and some humour to ease the stress of it all.

Anyone who doesn,t / hasn,t been able to loose weight by the normal methods above which include as a recap.

Exercise, cutting down your food intake, cabrohydrates sweet stuff and having a sensible healthy diet.

SHOULD consult a doctor / specialist to get there body checked out as there may be a serious health condition that is causing this along with the over weight.

This forum will not be qualified to make an assessment, apart from possibly pointing you into the causes by an existing condition they have.

There are of course seperate threads for health related causes also that can possibly advise you on the different health related ones or maybe you could add a new thread and ask for possible advice, but it is important to recognise we are not doctors and health related specialists.

If you cannot loose weight by the normal methods it may either be this, or just maybe or you are not dieting properly and honestly.

marshbags and good luck to everyone

Edited January 29, 2007 by marshbags

[marshbags]

Kudos to Chuchok, thanks- it seems very close to the Atkins model of low carbohydrates!

Bendix and Marshbags, no person with a weight problem is unaware that diet and exercise are key points. It's more complicated than you are apparently aware, however, and your skepticism is not really helpful here. If you don't have a weight problem, congratulations, but your lack of understanding is not that helpful here. Your points are duly noted; if you have any specific and constructive suggestions (as other posters do) you are welcome to post them. If you continue to be "confused" about this forum, it's probably best that you become lurkers.

"Steven"

I feel i must respond to this post and hope it is not taken as anything other than referring to the post.

You indicate the certain words like exercise and diet, ect. are, considered not needed, insensitive and everybody knows, ect.

Should you wander around any slimming club you will find humour is in abundance and as a group they are forever having laughs at each others situation.

This breaks down the negativity and creates a happy environment as is there for everyone to see and gets rid of inhibitions and prejudices.

You will also find these words along with many others related to this mentioned and written in polystyrene so as to create confidence and help them to not be sensitive, offended at the reality and descriptions in their meanings.

We are talking humour here I might add and NOT taking the P***, it is also relevant to online groups the world over also.

Dieting is tough enough and a little humour helps it along and loosens people up and relaxes them, creating a happy enviroment

If you do insist on these proviso / rules this just discourages others from becoming serious, active members.

It is also not a very nice to refer to someone as fat / fattie ect. and referring to them being overweight is considered non offensive and reasonable if you are NOT the fat one

If anyone asks for advice, they should always be advised to make sure it,s not a medical problem and along with the doctors advice if it,s o.k., diet , cut down, loose weight and start exercising if they are able to do, health wise.

Anyone with common sense who is given this advice, accept it and are then encouraged to keep it up by referring to the above along with motivating expressions.

T.Visa members as a whole are very sensitive to serious endeavours and would not intentionally extract the urine, those that clearly do can be edited once it becomes obvious, along with troll comments and warned / informed via P.M. which is of course fair and usually effective.

Bendix, as I hopefully think he means, is in fact making a comment in general terms based on his experience with the majority of dieters who eventually go back to there old habits / lifestyle and is in his own way expressing that.

This really is factual when you compare ongoing results.

We are not all eloquent enough to put into words what we would normally express when talking to someone, myself included.

This has to be taken into account and I personally have learned over time to think in those terms when the poster is genuine or trolling / winding me up.

No way would he show disrespect to the O.P. especially as it is George / admin for who we all accept their authority and give them the respect they has rightfully earned and deserved without question and unreservedly.

This is after all a group, supposedly of voluntary contributors hoping to get support from one another, while others just wish to help and give the benefit of their experience.

This is a diet reducing group, dependant on truth and the experience of others and not one of your more controversial forums where support is not the objective.

Encouragement is needed or we loose the respect, interest and participation.

We all need to lighten up a bit because we are trying to offer and encourage and do it in an honest straight forward way, and give support to each other.

Lifestyle, exercise and a sensibly balanced healthy diet are the main areas that will address over weight in people with no medical reasons for not being able to do so.

If you can re educate your daily eating habits and change your lifestyle you have every chance of keeping the weight off once you have done the hard work to do this, providing you keep it up.

Slimming pills and diets that encourage you to loose weight are generally commercially motivated, short term and more importantly can effect your health in the long term.

There is, I am sorry to say no easy way or magic pill to get the weight off.

By the way Britmaveric sums it up perfectly in post 50 but you possibly missed it Steven, which takes us all back to common basic causes and remedies…………

( Well apart from those with thyroid conditions - fatness is simply eating more than you burn off.

EXERCISE EXERCISE EXCERCISE

Modified diet, and keep at it. (life style change and don't slack off )

I am quite happy to debate this sensibly with anyone should there be others who disagree, after all this is only fair on a free and democratic discussion.

Unfortunately the above cannot be applied, if at all, to those with certain medical problems and only then with qualified supervision, not keep fit instructors, anonymous people and unqualified slimming experts.

I empathize totally with those who are in this unfortunate situation and can only hope they can improve their quality of life by other means.

This forum is not qualified enough to do this for you and well meaning advice can have serious consequences in this case.

There are several common denominators, the main ones being:-

1) Lifestyle and lack of self esteem and psychological stress / anxiety.

2) Consumption of to fatty foods, sweet / sugar loaded foods and drinks and convenient ready made packaged stuff that is sold everywhere you go.

3) Inactivity and lack of regular exercise to help burn off excess calories food supplies the body with.

It is essential, again that all dieters get medical advice from there G.P. or someone of proven integrity and knowledge relating to health and fitness.

I would also like to reiterate that I do not include anyone with health problems as a couple of posters have already remarked on who as a consequence are overweight.

Diet wise:-

Quick fix diets are o.k short term and you may loose weight but you cannot sustain them for a long period due to them being nutritionally inadequate, leading to iron deficiency, unhealthy bones.

They do not offer a long term solution and can cause lack of confidence in ability to slim successfully and give you false hope.

For anyone to say otherwise, they are going against expert medical advice given from long term studies and results, they are also being irresponsible, if they do so.

marshbags

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I was doing well yesterday. Bananas, a few dim sum, some vegetable soup.

Then at 11pm I succumbed, and had a parmesan cheese sandwich. That was all the ingredients I could find in the fridge.

I don't know why I can't control myself late at night. Yet I'm okay all day.

[marshbags]

To follow on from post 65 i would like to add the following important info., relating to low carb diets:-

The Atkins diet / low carb diets I repeat are very controversial and respected health authorities, doctors of body science and similar academics have done studies on this subject for many years have found very serious health problems that occur short and long term.

Please remember these are experts in these areas, unlike many who cannot even begin to appreciate these important issues, and certainly cannot judge it to be safe on the great weight loss and nothing has happened to me scenario.

Some short term ones include:-

General tiredness, abrupt or gradually increasing weakness, dizziness, headaches, confusion, abdominal pain, irritability, nausea and vomiting, sleep problems and bad breath

.

Some long term ones / risks which are far more serious due to compromising and neglecting your essential, natural, vitamin and mineral intake :-

Potential cardiac problems, renal /kidneyproblems, bone, and liver abnormalities.

Low carb. Diet,s like the Atkins ect. may also hasten the onset of type II diabetes.

( effects the natural production of insulin and the insulin produced is less effective ) along with the related problems associated with it.

I am sorry for the delay in responding on what consider pertinent and serious issues relating to this particular post, especially the low carb. info.

Any more points in my contributions that need clarity I will be happy to provide / try to answer, especially relating to the Akins / low carb. Diets, according to respected professionals who base there knowledge on their findings.. NOT MINE

Just an after thought on my own circumstances relating to weight / lifestyle.

Yes I am at my recommended / healthy weight but I am not “ LUCKY “ and have earned it over the years by applying the methods i mention in previous posts which is basically what Bendix and Britmaverick had in mind, I reckon.

( 174cm,s and 74-78 kilo,s )

I also could easily put the pounds on without sensible eating and daily exercise ect., as all 62 / 63 year olds can and do.

If I feel I,m putting pounds on I can tell, then get the scales out which, in my case is a good indicator, due to my weight being consistant.and if the kilos are going on.

I cut back a bit on certain calorie loaded stuff, walk a bit faster and it then comes off again pretty quickly and within a few days.

Watch the liquids apart from water of course, especially in Thailand where sugar content isn,t usually looked into and there loaded with it.

I never use a gym and follow my own regime, but I realize and appreciate many cannot or do not know how to adapt a method that suits there individual needs and also need support to motivate this area.

When you put your clothes on you can also tell and by doing a profile check in the mirror, it is a good indicator also, in my humble opinion, based on many years of experience.

Remember again, fat turns to muscle once you start some form of exercise and therefore once you begin to firm up the reduction starts to slow down and can actually start to go up again because muscle is heavy as it developes accordingly.

You are what you want to be and you can be happy with in all aspects of your life both physically and mentally diet wise providing you are not one of the unfortunate ones like leasurely / post 36 and those in various other forums dedicated to their unfortunate situations and circumstances like thyroid failure.

I am 100% genuine on this and I do not in any way wish to appear condescending, this is not in my nature and never has been.

It didn,t take me all this time to compose my posts and put them down, just to be otherwise and that,s for sure, I only hope it,s worth the effort, informative to beginners especially, mtivates them,and is useful.

On the other hand if you dispute my observations then reciprocate my offer and come up with some information to convince me over 30 years of being involved and hands on with keep fit, slimming clubs and individuals is not fact and confusing others ???? I do not mean this in a sarcastic way just in case it appears otherwise.

I,m more than willing to research it via a reputable government web site to check it out and also end the confusion coming from opposite views which always happen in a fair and honest way.

The health of all members is paramount, along with lasting results for the lucky ones that can change their lifestyles with long term results and regained self esteem.

We can of course because of George,s " FAT PROBLEM " as a group offer our range of experiences and observations up for general debate, now that,s a great idea for this particular forums objectives, don,t you think ? Let us alll follow the O.P,s example and afford the occasional laugh at ourselves,..this surely is the way to go.

Kudos to ALL positive contributors for sharing your experiences, I reckon and above all, stay coooool

marshbags

Edited January 29, 2007 by marshbags

[bernie66]

you can do like me and marry a woman that loves fat guys

you can change from beer to liquer

but man you are in thailand!!!!!

<snip>

Edited January 29, 2007 by Jai Dee
Discussion of drug use deleted.

[Ijustwannateach]

Bernie, fortunately for most of us heavy types there ARE a fair number of people who like us just the way we are- but when it leads to our early deaths that's no good for anyone! The guy I dated last had a previous BF who'd died of diabetes- not the way I wanna go.

Marshbags, mentioning diet and exercise per se are not against the rules here. The guidelines state that posters should not aggressively *hijack* any threads giving one type of advice by suggesting a different kind of advice- this is a support forum, not a debate soapbox. This particular thread is kind of open ended, so you can feel free to go on... and on... ... If you are not sure what the rules now are, please check here.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I had four chicken teriyaki sandwiches and a mars bar for lunch.

I didn't really want the Mars bar, but it has meant that I didn't eat a tube of spring onion Pringles this afternoon.

I'm going to have a cup of green tea in a minute, as that stuff is so foul it must be slimming.

[stub]

I was doing well yesterday. Bananas, a few dim sum, some vegetable soup.

Then at 11pm I succumbed, and had a parmesan cheese sandwich. That was all the ingredients I could find in the fridge.

I don't know why I can't control myself late at night. Yet I'm okay all day.

If you are working during the day, your mind is generally on other things. On a number of occasions, I've knocked off work and realized that I haven't eaten a thing all day. Perhaps you are just being too drastic?

A high protein/low or no carb meal in the evening can work for many people, as it will keep you feeling fuller for longer (as opposed to a parmesan cheese sandwich). A 300g grilled steak and salad at around 6pm might have been the best thing. Combined with a reasonable breakfast you might not have had those 4 sandwiches and a mars bar for lunch today!

[stub]

The Atkins diet / low carb diets I repeat are very controversial and respected health authorities, doctors of body science and similar academics have done studies on this subject for many years have found very serious health problems that occur short and long term.

You are correct that low carb diets are controversial. There are also plenty of respected health authorities, doctors of body science and similar academics who are fine with it.

Also, what needs to be taken into consideration is the effects of remaining overweight, and these are *not* controversial. Short term issues, if you experience them (friends on Atkins have told me of no negative effects after the first few days), are a small price to pay for reaching your goal weight. And long term effects (if there are any - serious long term studies so far are restricted to animals since the low carb 'craze' is pretty recent) shouldn't enter the equation once you reach your goal and start moving onto a more normal diet.

Not that I would recommend Atkins - it kick started a lot of new thinking but is out of date. In particular, studies I have seen have shown pretty conclusively that Atkins was quite wrong about *why* it works and other more recent diets use this to help good weight loss without the extremes needed to kick your body into ketosis. If I decide to try something more formal, I'll be going with the CSIRO's Total Wellbeing diet which a friend has had amazing success with and comes out of a very well respected government research institution.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's going to take us awhile to get used to this, but please-

Only news links on the regular threads.

OTHER LINKS SHOULD BE POSTED IN THE LINKS THREAD (you can refer to them in a thread).

and in this case, Stub, the link's to a sales site- not allowed. Only links to actual information are approved.

Thanks for your understanding.

"Steven"

[solo siam]

The Atkins diet has been around 20+ years and I haven't seen or heard about anyone doing the diet correctly suffering or dying from it, why is that?

The food I eat is exactly the same but with no fizzy drinks, beer, sugar, bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, lentils or fruit juice. Instead these have been replaced with Olives, Cheese, Salad, Fresh Seafood, Water, Sugar Free Grean Tea and Macademai nuts.

What is dangerous about that exactly? The water intake on its own when doing atkins is enough to make you more healthy, just take a look at someone whos a low carb eaters skin for example. Also you are directly swapping out processed food for an all natural diet.

People tend to get real funny about the Atkins diet, not sure exactly why.

[britmaveric]

I had four chicken teriyaki sandwiches and a mars bar for lunch.

I didn't really want the Mars bar, but it has meant that I didn't eat a tube of spring onion Pringles this afternoon.

Uh thats sounds like heaps for lunch mate - you are taking the piss?

[Ijustwannateach]

The Atkins diet has been around 20+ years and I haven't seen or heard about anyone doing the diet correctly suffering or dying from it, why is that?

The food I eat is exactly the same but with no fizzy drinks, beer, sugar, bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, lentils or fruit juice. Instead these have been replaced with Olives, Cheese, Salad, Fresh Seafood, Water, Sugar Free Grean Tea and Macademai nuts.

What is dangerous about that exactly? The water intake on its own when doing atkins is enough to make you more healthy, just take a look at someone whos a low carb eaters skin for example. Also you are directly swapping out processed food for an all natural diet.

People tend to get real funny about the Atkins diet, not sure exactly why.

A friend of mine insisted it "wasn't balanced," even when I repeatedly explained that you could eat plenty of vegetables and make up some of the deficiencies with vitamins.

It's true that all the meat can be hard on your kidneys, because it means there will be a lot more excess urea to be processed.

"Steven"

[jumnien]

If a fat person's normal diet is 3,000 calories a day - 1000 protein, 1000 fat, 1000 carbohydrates and they start an Atkins diet of perhaps 800 protein, 300 fat, and 200 carbohydrates for a total of 1400 calories a day, I don't think they will have any ill effects from the reduced protein consumption inherent to the Atkins diet. I don't think Atkins ever suggested that people eat 64 ounces of protein a day as some seem to propose!

[marshbags]

For Steven and the Group.

This may give you more insight from a renowned Medical Insurance company in 2003.

I recently watched a documentary relating to the concerns of slimming aids being marketed and the Atkins Diet

spokes people were invited to come on the programme but declined.

The panel consisted of 3 Diet / medical experts and there where also several guest appearances via video links.

The following which i had read about some time previously gives a good account of many of the points discussed.

There was no commercial advantages to be gained and in both instances they were just reporting on the concerns of the short and long term effects to health and there implications.

My only motivation for taking an interest is due to the way vunerable people are exploited and used purely for monetary purposes and the fact that many of me friends and family come under this category.

I do not like anyone being taken advantage of and especially family and friends nor do i think much about non experts thinking the know better when they haven,t researched their opinions on the + and - implications as experts in this complexed area.

All opinions are welcomed in debate and then we all raise awareness to the possible dangers / non dangers along with providing information from both sides.

Courtesy of BUPA U.K

K E Y P O I N T S

The Atkins diet is based on eating large quantities of protein (for example eggs, meat and cheese) and small amounts of carbohydrate (such as bread, fruit and pasta).

Two studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine looked at the benefits of the Atkins diet in obese people, compared to low-fat approaches.

They discovered weight initially came off quickly, but levelled off over six months / one year. The researchers claim the diet proved effective.

But experts aren't convinced. They've highlighted a number of criticisms, including the small numbers involved, the high drop out rate and the fact that the longest study only lasted a year. For this reason, the long-term effects of the diet are still a mystery.

The current advice for losing weight safely and maintaining it is to eat a healthy balanced diet, make lasting lifestyle changes and be active.

Is the Atkins diet safe?

BUPA investigative news written by Rachel Newcombe, reporter for BUPA's Health Information Team.

The Atkins diet, which is based on consuming high levels of protein and low levels of carbohydrate, has become a popular weight-loss approach among celebrities and the public. Two studies have been publicised as supporting the diet and confirming the weight-loss ability. But is this really the case? Are there still safety issues and is the diet a suitable approach for long-term weight loss?

What were the headlines?

Coverage of the two studies appeared in a range of publications. Headlines included "The fat and the thin of it", "Atkins diet is more effective and healthier than rival regimes", "High-fat diet confounds experts", "Controversial dietary plan proves healthier than expected", and "Atkins diet 'is beneficial and twice as effective as rivals'".

Most reports took the stance that together the studies prove the validity and safety of the high-protein diet, but although this may seem the case at first glance, a closer look at the research uncovers a different, and mostly unreported, story.

What is the bigger picture?

Both studies were published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). The first was conducted by the Philadelphia Veterans Affairs Medical Center, where 132 severely obese patients were randomly put on either a low-carbohydrate diet, or a low-fat diet, for six months. The Atkins dieters limited their carbohydrate intake to 30g a day and received counselling on healthy types of fat, such as omega-3 fatty acids. The low-fat dieters were put on a calorie-controlled diet, with no more than 30 per cent of total calorific intake from fat.

Only 79 people managed to complete the six-month trial. Low-carbohydrate dieters lost an average of 13 pounds, compared to four pounds for low-fat dieters. No significant changes in cholesterol or blood pressure levels were noted in either group, but the low-carbohydrate consumers did reduce their levels of triglycerides (blood fats) by an average of 20 per cent, compared to only 4 per cent in the other group.

"This study demonstrates that a low-carbohydrate diet can have beneficial effects in treating obesity," said senior investigator, Dr. Samuel Klein. "Additional research is needed to understand why subjects assigned to a low-carbohydrate diet lose more weight than those assigned to a conventional diet and to evaluate the long-term efficacy and safety of low-carbohydrate diet therapy."

The second study was carried out over one year, led by researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. Only 63 obese men and women took part, and were either assigned to a low-fat diet or the Atkins approach. All the participants met with a registered dietician at the start and then at three, six and 12 months into the programme.

They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds; at six months the losses were 15.2 pounds and 6.9 pounds respectively, and at one year they'd lost an average of 9.5 and 5.4 pounds. At one year, Atkins participants had greater increases in HDL cholesterol (18 per cent, compared with 3 per cent) and greater reduction in triglycerides. There was no change in either group in levels of bad (LDL) cholesterol.

"These preliminary data suggest that weight losses will be comparable to conventional approaches over a one-year period, but there may be more favourable effects of a low-carbohydrate approach in term of triglycerides and HDL (good) cholesterol," said Dr. Gary Foster, one of the researchers.

Although on the surface both studies appeared to show benefits from the Atkins diet, delving deeper into the details reveals a number of negative points. Most notably:

BOTH STUDIES WERE VERY SMALL.

Both used obese, or severely obese, participants, which isn't representative of the average UK dieter.

There was a high drop-out rate, suggesting that people found the Atkins diet hard to stick to.

They didn't address the harmful effect the diet could have on the kidneys.

The difference between the weight losses at the end of the studies wasn't really that different.

Dr. Amy Joy Lanou, director of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in America, was quick to point out health dangers of the Atkins diet. "A Harvard study published earlier this year in the Annals of Internal Medicine showed that high-protein diets may cause permanent loss of kidney function in anyone with reduced kidney function. Other studies have shown that meat-heavy diets significantly increase one's risk of colon cancer and osteoporosis," she said.

Dr. Foster acknowledged the potential problems and said they're planning a longer five-year study. "This larger study of 360 participants will help us more fully assess the benefits and risks of low-carbohydrate diets on bone mass, kidney function, arterial function and exercise tolerance," he said.

"I'm very, very concerned that people will get the message from these studies that the Atkins diet is safe and effective, but I don't believe we know that yet.

"The studies were interesting, but with all medical research you've got to look at the details and understand what they're saying. Both studies are on obese people, one on severely obese people, but they're not a population that is representative of the majority of UK dieters. The challenges, risks and benefits of dieting in severely obese people are different to those of us who are simply overweight.

"The Atkins diet makes you lose weight quickly, because in many ways it's more restrictive. What's interesting was that at the end of the year there wasn't a significant difference between the weight loss of the two groups, and there was a high drop out rate.

"What we really want to know is if someone's on the Atkin's diet for 10 to 15 years, then what happens? At the moment we don't know, because no-one's ever done it."

Dr. Paula Franklin,

managing director

BUPA Lighten Up.

What does this mean?

Brigid McKevith, a nutrition scientist at the British Nutrition Foundation (BNF), said, "We welcome the fact that the Atkins diet is being studied scientifically and that randomised controlled studies have been carried out, because it's very popular with the public."

However, she expressed concern at the small number of people studied and the high drop-out rate, as well as a number of key safety questions that are still left unanswered. "There are several potential problems with the Atkins diet. These include long term bone health, as with a very high protein intake the excretions of calcium increase, so there could be implications for the health of bones," she explained.

"There could be difficulties for people who have an underlying problem with their kidneys or liver, because it would be putting more strain on those organs, and problems in terms of heart disease too, as it's a diet very low in fruits and vegetables. Also, it's very low in fibre, so in terms of digestive health, it's not in keeping with our fibre and complex carbohydrate recommendations."

Belinda Linden, head of medical information at the British Heart Foundation, holds similar views. "The new studies do not indicate a dramatic weight loss for excessively obese people," she said. "Previous studies have shown that weight loss from the Atkins Diet may involve muscle loss rather than body fat. Another potential problem is that it is so far unclear from studies whether weight loss is sustained over a longer period than six months. One of the studies shows no significant difference at 12 months."

She added that, "With minimal fruit and vegetables included in the diet, it holds serious implications for coronary heart disease and cancer. Diets need to be varied to protect against these conditions - and this one isn't. This diet requires further long term and larger studies before its effectiveness can be confirmed."

A C T I O N P O I N T S

Think carefully before embarking on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet.

Nutritionists recommend a diet including a good balance of complex carbohydrates, fibre, fruit, vegetables and protein.

If you want to lose weight and maintain it, make positive changes to your lifestyle and activity levels, as well as eating sensibly.

What does this mean to me?

"My general feeling about the Atkins diet is that, like anything that severely restricts your calories, you'll lose weight. In the short term, if you want to do it for two weeks and lose weight, it probably won't do you any harm," said Dr. Paula Franklin, from BUPA Lighten Up.

However, she warned, "What you need to do in order to be healthy in the long term is to ensure your body has all the nutrients it needs. So, a long-term diet that doesn't include many fruit and vegetables (ie the Atkins) wouldn't be good."

"If you want to be a healthy weight in the long term, the best approach is really lifestyle change," said Dr. Paula Franklin. Fad diets lure people with a quick fix cure, but, says Dr Franklin, "there's no magic with weight loss, and unless you change both what you eat and what you do, you'll put weight back on again."

Summary

The Atkins diet is a very different approach to the recommended weight loss methods and the general consensus is that it's important more research is done into the long-term health effects, as at the moment they're currently unknown.

Please consider these concerns because unless there is no substance in them x number of years down the road

you may find out your health will eventually pay the price.

marshbags

[stub]

A friend of mine insisted it "wasn't balanced," even when I repeatedly explained that you could eat plenty of vegetables and make up some of the deficiencies with vitamins.

This is quite true when you use the traditional definition of balanced. This was why it was quite revolutionary - it started people thinking that what they had been taught about the food pyramid might be quite wrong (which I personally agree with - 'dairy' as a food group is pretty much only there due to the pressure of the dairy industry and has caused no end of grief to the various ethnic groups with a high incidence of lactose intolerance).

It's true that all the meat can be hard on your kidneys, because it means there will be a lot more excess urea to be processed.

I've heard this claim, and counter claims that is is rubbish. Do you have any citations? I think this could be true if you fail to drink enough liquid but can't remember if I heard this somewhere I found reputable or if it is just an educated guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_Nutritional_Approach gives citations for many pro/anti studies but has no reference to this one

[marshbags]

I hope this article from my home town of one of many local slimmers may give you inpiration when all appears hopeless.

Specially for Steven and his group along with lot,s of success in your endeavours.

Quote:-

NO PAIN, NO GAIN FOR CHARITY

by Kevin Rogers

BIG-HEARTED slimmer Alison Welsh is over the moon after losing nearly a hundred pounds in weight - and gaining a thousand for charity.

Alison, 36, reached a turning point in her life in 2006 when she set herself the challenge of losing eight stones in just one year.

Thanks to the help of staff from Bannatyne's Health Club, more than seven stones has already melted away and she is setting her sights even higher.

"I feel fantastic," said Alison, of Berry Edge Close.

"My entire life has changed - my original goal was to lose eight stones and now it is ten. I never thought I could do it but I know I will now."

After recovering from an illness in 2005, Alison decided that life was too precious to waste time being unhappy. "Enough was enough," she said. "I decided to be proactive and turn my life around – and I've done it.

"I used to cry when walking on the treadmill and now I'm in training to join the Bannatyne's Road Runners and I plan to do the Great North Run in October. So far I've lost 7st and I'm well on the way to achieving my target of losing 8st. I bought a pair of high street jeans the other day for the first time in my life and when I went out in them, I felt a million dollars."

Alison said she was "playing at it" when she first joined the gym. But after putting in place a personal training programme she changed her diet and threw herself into an exercise regime.

"Ballantyne's manager Steve said the gym would give me all the support they could.

They took it way beyond anything I could have done on my own. The staff are so friendly compared to places I've been in the past and this has been a key motivator."

Out went her diet of ready meals and junk food, in came steamed fresh vegetables, lean meat and fish.

"Healthy eating gave me a whole new purpose in life -it's like my taste buds have changed," said Alison.

"And now if I miss a session at the gym I feel like my left arm is missing."

Alison also decided that whilst working towards her goal, she should take the opportunity to try to help others. She's so far raised over £1,000 in sponsorship for the Bannatyne's official charity, UNICEF.

Stephen Whitley, General Manager of Bannatyne's Rotherham said; "We're all really proud of Alison – we've watched her come a long way over the last year and it's great to see her start 2007 with the determination and confidence to keep on going beyond the norm.

"The personal training has helped get her out of her comfort zone and she is certainly an inspiration to others by demonstrating that anyone can achieve exceptional results if they're willing to put in the time and effort. Alison's attitude has definitely helped her get the most out of her membership and we all look forward to helping her succeed again this year."

Unquote.

Why not put your efforts to good use also and get sponsors to back you and donate to a deserving charity of your choice.

An individual one is worthwhile and a group one even better if i may offer this idea for consideration.

Imagine how rewarding it will be and an even greater incentive to keep going for the benefit of others also, while adding a little more bonding between you all.

marshbags.

Edited January 30, 2007 by marshbags

[solo siam]

"They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds"

So the atkins diet was almost three times as effective, after that it seems all the dieters went off the diet. It is a very boring diet, you kind of lose your lustre for food, but perhaps this is a good thing for those who are seriously overweight. I also think that a fair proportion of the UK is medically obese, more than you may think.

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks for the posts, guys.

[Jonson83]

"They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds"

So the atkins diet was almost three times as effective, after that it seems all the dieters went off the diet. It is a very boring diet, you kind of lose your lustre for food, but perhaps this is a good thing for those who are seriously overweight. I also think that a fair proportion of the UK is medically obese, more than you may think.

It seems like these days everyone is looking for short cuts...

In the short term it is more effective..but thats it.When the persons comes off this diet their body will 'carb up' and start storing carbhydrates at a very rapid pace.In otherwords they will gain weight very quickly and will eventually be back at square one.Long term 'atkin dieters' are running the risk of Ketosis and kidney damage.Don't even go there..

In the long term, a fairly balanced ,low fat diet is far more benficial.Yes,you won't lose fat as quickly but were only talking about a couple of months here.Whats a couple of months anyway?? Just be patient and give your body the respect it deserves.

It really does seems these days everyone is looking for short cuts.

[Zardoz]

There is nothing Short cut at all about Atkins, especially in it's original, unwatered down, version which

was an almost 0 carbohydrate diet(do a search for zero carb forum)

It is not that boring IF you know what you are doing..but yes eating out can be a problem.

I think of it as an approximation in the sense that the closer you stick to it the better your

health will be. It is not just about weight.

Talk about "balanced diet " misses the point and often winds up begging the question

as to what "balanced diet" really is. Myths about Ketosis and kidney damage can be dispelled

by reading the account of Steffason who studied and practised the Innuit diet last century(before

they lost their culture). Also you may want to look at diet of the mountain men and many of

the Indian tribes of North America(some were agricultural)

As to practice, u may get a good chicken steak at any Thai restaurant or eat the

chicken soup without the rice... There are ways to make it work in many

so called "rice based" cultures...

Don't believe the usual reactionary responses you get and do some research.

You many be amazed at how many MDs DON'T believe in things like the food pyramid

and cholesteral as the villian(there is even an organization of MD skeptics here)

"They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds"

So the atkins diet was almost three times as effective, after that it seems all the dieters went off the diet. It is a very boring diet, you kind of lose your lustre for food, but perhaps this is a good thing for those who are seriously overweight. I also think that a fair proportion of the UK is medically obese, more than you may think.

It seems like these days everyone is looking for short cuts...

In the short term it is more effective..but thats it.When the persons comes off this diet their body will 'carb up' and start storing carbhydrates at a very rapid pace.In otherwords they will gain weight very quickly and will eventually be back at square one.Long term 'atkin dieters' are running the risk of Ketosis and kidney damage.Don't even go there..

In the long term, a fairly balanced ,low fat diet is far more benficial.Yes,you won't lose fat as quickly but were only talking about a couple of months here.Whats a couple of months anyway?? Just be patient and give your body the respect it deserves.

It really does seems these days everyone is looking for short cuts.

[Jonson83]

There is nothing Short cut at all about Atkins, especially in it's original, unwatered down, version which

was an almost 0 carbohydrate diet(do a search for zero carb forum)

It is not that boring IF you know what you are doing..but yes eating out can be a problem.

I think of it as an approximation in the sense that the closer you stick to it the better your

health will be. It is not just about weight.

Talk about "balanced diet " misses the point and often winds up begging the question

as to what "balanced diet" really is. Myths about Ketosis and kidney damage can be dispelled

by reading the account of Steffason who studied and practised the Innuit diet last century(before

they lost their culture). Also you may want to look at diet of the mountain men and many of

the Indian tribes of North America(some were agricultural)

As to practice, u may get a good chicken steak at any Thai restaurant or eat the

chicken soup without the rice... There are ways to make it work in many

so called "rice based" cultures...

Don't believe the usual reactionary responses you get and do some research.

You many be amazed at how many MDs DON'T believe in things like the food pyramid

and cholesteral as the villian(there is even an organization of MD skeptics here)

"They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds"

So the atkins diet was almost three times as effective, after that it seems all the dieters went off the diet. It is a very boring diet, you kind of lose your lustre for food, but perhaps this is a good thing for those who are seriously overweight. I also think that a fair proportion of the UK is medically obese, more than you may think.

It seems like these days everyone is looking for short cuts...

In the short term it is more effective..but thats it.When the persons comes off this diet their body will 'carb up' and start storing carbhydrates at a very rapid pace.In otherwords they will gain weight very quickly and will eventually be back at square one.Long term 'atkin dieters' are running the risk of Ketosis and kidney damage.Don't even go there..

In the long term, a fairly balanced ,low fat diet is far more benficial.Yes,you won't lose fat as quickly but were only talking about a couple of months here.Whats a couple of months anyway?? Just be patient and give your body the respect it deserves.

It really does seems these days everyone is looking for short cuts.

Its a short cut for people looking for quick results.You can convince yourself otherwise but that is exactly what it is and why it is so popular.

There is very simple logic behind having a balanced diet.You don't eat anything in excess,thus you don't gain excessive amounts of unwanted weight.Ofcourse,because you arent deprieving yourself of anything, your body is getting everything it needs.

Anyone who is larger than average should use exercise as their main way of losing excess fat.The atkins diet can work wonders in the initial stages but it simply is not feasible in the long run.Most people who stop the diet ,gain weight rapidly.

One of the main reasons for this is that the diet discourages excerise.Dieters will never have enough energy to exercise properly,that is,if they can get of their &lt;deleted&gt; and actually motivate themselves to do any in the first place.Why should they bother,their losing weight already.... ....Thus there are millions upon millions of western dieters who have done exactly that.Lose weight at first and then put it all back on when they stop.

What is the point?

Why not just exercise regulary(shock horror!) and have a balanced diet??

Aswell,Ketosis is not a myth, it is very REAL and dieters do suffer from carb deprievation.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Jonson83

[Zardoz]

There is nothing Short cut at all about Atkins, especially in it's original, unwatered down, version which

was an almost 0 carbohydrate diet(do a search for zero carb forum)

It is not that boring IF you know what you are doing..but yes eating out can be a problem.

I think of it as an approximation in the sense that the closer you stick to it the better your

health will be. It is not just about weight.

Talk about "balanced diet " misses the point and often winds up begging the question

as to what "balanced diet" really is. Myths about Ketosis and kidney damage can be dispelled

by reading the account of Steffason who studied and practised the Innuit diet last century(before

they lost their culture). Also you may want to look at diet of the mountain men and many of

the Indian tribes of North America(some were agricultural)

As to practice, u may get a good chicken steak at any Thai restaurant or eat the

chicken soup without the rice... There are ways to make it work in many

so called "rice based" cultures...

Don't believe the usual reactionary responses you get and do some research.

You many be amazed at how many MDs DON'T believe in things like the food pyramid

and cholesteral as the villian(there is even an organization of MD skeptics here)

"They discovered that at three months Atkins dieters had lost an average of 14.7 pounds, compared with 5.8 pounds"

So the atkins diet was almost three times as effective, after that it seems all the dieters went off the diet. It is a very boring diet, you kind of lose your lustre for food, but perhaps this is a good thing for those who are seriously overweight. I also think that a fair proportion of the UK is medically obese, more than you may think.

It seems like these days everyone is looking for short cuts...

In the short term it is more effective..but thats it.When the persons comes off this diet their body will 'carb up' and start storing carbhydrates at a very rapid pace.In otherwords they will gain weight very quickly and will eventually be back at square one.Long term 'atkin dieters' are running the risk of Ketosis and kidney damage.Don't even go there..

In the long term, a fairly balanced ,low fat diet is far more benficial.Yes,you won't lose fat as quickly but were only talking about a couple of months here.Whats a couple of months anyway?? Just be patient and give your body the respect it deserves.

It really does seems these days everyone is looking for short cuts.

Its a short cut for people looking for quick results.You can convince yourself otherwise but that is exactly what it is and why it is so popular.

There is very simple logic behind having a balanced diet.You don't eat anything in excess,thus you don't gain excessive amounts of unwanted weight.Ofcourse,because you arent deprieving yourself of anything, your body is getting everything it needs.

Anyone who is larger than average should use exercise as their main way of losing excess fat.The atkins diet can work wonders in the initial stages but it simply is not feasible in the long run.Most people who stop the diet ,gain weight rapidly.

One of the main reasons for this is that the diet discourages excerise.Dieters will never have enough energy to exercise properly,that is,if they can get of their &lt;deleted&gt; and actually motivate themselves to do any in the first place.Why should they bother,their losing weight already.... ....Thus there are millions upon millions of western dieters who have done exactly that.Lose weight at first and then put it all back on when they stop.

What is the point?

Why not just exercise regulary(shock horror!) and have a balanced diet??

Aswell,Ketosis is not a myth, it is very REAL and dieters do suffer from carb deprievation.

t

I think YOU miss the point - it is not meant to be "stopped" as it represents the real

"balanced lifestyle"(again you do not define this term) .

Your approach simply does not work..millions of "Weight Watchers" members have tried

with a very poor success rate(my mother was one).

Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis? The former is not bad

as many many plains indians and others were on it. So are wild animals

The latter is dangerous. Do some real research.

Carb deprivation is something that people adjust to within a few

weeks(early research was flawed here in not allowing sufficient adjustment times)

[Jonson83]

NO,i am not missing the point.

In the long run it is simply not feasible to maintain such a diet.It is not healthly and it discourages exercise.This is why so many people FAIL in the longrun after using it.Nobody can keep such a diet over long periods of time(10-15-20 years..rest of your life..)

As for 'weight watchers' ....weight watchers!! thats a money making con and i honestly can't believe you use a program such as that as an example of a balanced diet/lifestyle.

Its very simple,exercise + balanced diet = good health,good body.Any doctor with any self respect would agree.I am not going to explain to you what a balanced diet consists of.You should already know! or maybe you should do some 'real research' ??? Everyone knows this is the right way to go,if you are unsure of what this means,then you can simply go to your local doctor and he will explain it for you.

The problem is,people are to lazy to actually do any exercise and lack the self displine to eat properly for more than a week.

..and this is where atkins comes in.

Don't have to exercise

Can eat tasty fatty foods

Lose weight at a rapid pace

That is why it is so popular.

'Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis?'

No i am not.The later is related to diabetes,the former is bad in the long run.Your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything.

I hate to repeat myself but i really have to stress this point.Anyone who is serious about losing weight and maintaining an average level of bodyfat after that should have a balanced diet and exercise regulary.Every MD/doctor/whoever you go to when you are sick.... will agree.The suggestion that the atkins diet is better is nonsense.

[Zardoz]

NO,i am not missing the point.

In the long run it is simply not feasible to maintain such a diet.It is not healthly and it discourages exercise.This is why so many people FAIL in the longrun after using it.Nobody can keep such a diet over long periods of time(10-15-20 years..rest of your life..)

As for 'weight watchers' ....weight watchers!! thats a money making con and i honestly can't believe you use a program such as that as an example of a balanced diet/lifestyle.

Its very simple,exercise + balanced diet = good health,good body.Any doctor with any self respect would agree.I am not going to explain to you what a balanced diet consists of.You should already know! or maybe you should do some 'real research' ??? Everyone knows this is the right way to go,if you are unsure of what this means,then you can simply go to your local doctor and he will explain it for you.

The problem is,people are to lazy to actually do any exercise and lack the self displine to eat properly for more than a week.

..and this is where atkins comes in.

Don't have to exercise

Can eat tasty fatty foods

Lose weight at a rapid pace

That is why it is so popular.

'Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis?'

No i am not.The later is related to diabetes,the former is bad in the long run.Your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything.

I hate to repeat myself but i really have to stress this point.Anyone who is serious about losing weight and maintaining an average level of bodyfat after that should have a balanced diet and exercise regulary.Every MD/doctor/whoever you go to when you are sick.... will agree.The suggestion that the atkins diet is better is nonsense.

Wow Wow wow, where to begin? You did not answer even ONE of my points

Every doctor? Hardly...You should take a look at the following link

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...754C0A9649C8B63

and the following which is "extreme atkins" but labels hardly matter

Your body is not supposed to be deprived of anything you say?

What does that mean? Meats and eggs contain all nutrients you need- fish

has omega-6 acid

Maybe you mean your body needs transfats from donuts?

Are you even aware that the food pyramid was officially discarded?

It shows the state of confusion medicine is in about what is "balanced"

My doctor in Canada thinks it's crap and he is hardly a quack...

Thai doctors I have interviewed believe Thai diet is best..

Hardly all the same opinions....

You obviously need an authoritarian answer to your beliefs and are probably unaware

that so called "balnced diet" recommendations come from flawed studies done decades ago.

Here's a link that explains:

Edited February 13, 2007 by Ijustwannateach
Non-news links in the links thread only, please

[pampal]

I am fat and I have lost 12 kilos in the last 3 months.

I eat all food types except junk like carbonated soft drinks, chips and ice cream etc...

I eat pork, beef, chicken, shrimp etc...(small portions)

I eat bread and rice ( small portions)

I eat lots of vegetables and fruits.

#1 important is that I exercise (riding my bicycle) 4 times a week, at least 1 hour per session.

I need to lose at least another 15 kilos, so wish me luck

[Billfo]

With dieting it's everyone to their own. I personally don't agree that Atkins is the way to go, I wouldn't be happy depriving my body of energy and feeding it lots of fatty foods, it just doesn't make sense, surely eating fatty foods is bad for the heart?

Dieting clubs/plans like weightwatchers do work. Its a slightly more relaxed diet but it does work. My Mom is on a similar plan (GI diet) and she has lost 2st in about 3 months, The GI diet is a balanced diet, but it concentrates on eating foods that release sugar slowly to reduce the 'hungry' feeling. In the UK and I assume the EU and the US, on the side of most food cartens/boxes/packets there are guidelines to a balanced diet, its a good guide but a bit too relaxed in my opinion, if you want to loose weight.

My only other gripe with Atkins is that because its a very very low carb diet, even if you eat some carbs for a few days you would suffer due to the body carbing up'. If you were to eat a balanced diet coupled with excersise you can occasionally treat yourself to a nice slice of cake, big juicy fatty burger etc etc, without seeing too much of a consequence. It seems to me that Atikins is a convinient diet, convinient in the sense that you don't have to excercise. If you want to treat you body right you should eat in moderation, stay away from saturated fats and excersise.

There are 3 key factors in loosing weight and keeping it off: Motivation, excersise and a balanced diet. I lost almost 2st in about 11 weeks doing circuit training 5 days a week and playing football 1 night a week. And looking back I could have eaten so much better and had better results.

Good luck with whatever diet you choose.