I Need Buffalo

[hastings]

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

[chownah]

I hope that you aren't the one who will be picking out the animal(s) and negotiating the price!!!! You won't be....will you?

Chownah

[Martin]

Tell us more about the circumstances.

Chownah has put his finger on the warning buzzer.

If it was us, my wife would get a relative that she trusts to go to the Sunday cattle market near Khon Kaen; choose them, buy them, and have them delivered to his place. Then walk them over to ours.

Things go pear-shaped if it gets out that there is farang money involved.

Incidentally, yesterday evening I saw a buffalo cart on the road near here. That is the first that I have seen in ten years here. I thought the 'walking tractor' plus trailer had made the buffalo carts extinct.

[h90]

Tell us more about the circumstances.

Chownah has put his finger on the warning buzzer.

If it was us, my wife would get a relative that she trusts to go to the Sunday cattle market near Khon Kaen; choose them, buy them, and have them delivered to his place. Then walk them over to ours.

Things go pear-shaped if it gets out that there is farang money involved.

Incidentally, yesterday evening I saw a buffalo cart on the road near here. That is the first that I have seen in ten years here. I thought the 'walking tractor' plus trailer had made the buffalo carts extinct.

well there are lot reports from sick bufallos, usually sent from Pattaya to Farangistan

[hastings]

Tell us more about the circumstances.

Chownah has put his finger on the warning buzzer.

If it was us, my wife would get a relative that she trusts to go to the Sunday cattle market near Hon Kaen; choose them, buy them, and have them delivered to his place. Then walk them over to ours.

Things go pear-shaped if it gets out that there is fa rang money involved.

Incidentally, yesterday evening I saw a buffalo cart on the road near here. That is the first that I have seen in ten years here. I thought the 'walking tractor' plus trailer had made the buffalo carts extinct.

Thanks for the questions and comments so far. Unfortunately, I will be paying. That said, the father-in-law or wife will be buying (they will be instructed not to mention the fa rang as payor). Notwithstanding, I am concerned about cost, and quantity (cows v buffalo). Trying to figure out what total costs to me will be (at least the ballpark range). The market in Khon Kaen is that the only source? Every Sunday? Is it near Ubon Ratchatani? Sorry for the additional questions.

[pnustedt]

There's a regular cattle market on the 226 road between Ubon and Sisaket, in Kantharom I think. Not sure just what days they are held tho. Prices for the cattle will vary tremdously depending on whether buffalo are for work, calves to grow, same for cows, in calf, etc. I'm sure Random Chances will be on sooner or later to give you a better idea of prices to expect. You would normally arrange your own delivery.

[RamdomChances]

Cow's I could help you, bull's I have'nt a clue sorry. Nobody really does them around here. First question would be what are you looking for, pregnant females for breeding, young bulls for fattening up and selling or a work animal ?

[sceadugenga]

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

I'm a bit stunned by the whole question. The conversation in my family would have gone....

"darling I need cow"

"how much for cow?"

"X baht"

"Sorry, only have X/2 baht"

"thank you darling"

"next week I looking new cow OK"

[magnusvv]

I recently made a couple family purchases of buffalo through my father-in-law. It was 25k Baht for a "very impressive" 3 year old male for breeding purposes. As well as 50k Baht for 3 breeding females and 2 of them already pregnant (one has already given birth to a male).

Not sure if these were good prices, but that was what I was told by my father-in-law were good. I think he may not have the greatest head for business so I'd take these example prices with a grain of salt.

I haven't a clue what they can turn around and sell the offspring for though.

[hastings]

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

I'm a bit stunned by the whole question. The conversation in my family would have gone....

"darling I need cow"

"how much for cow?"

"X baht"

"Sorry, only have X/2 baht"

"thank you darling"

"next week I looking new cow OK"

Thats what I am looking to do, as well. Put a ceiling on the available money. My inquiry is so that I can be reasonable with the x/2 baht response. BTW I think the livestock will be work animals (although pregnant females seem to be the best buy).

[sceadugenga]

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

I'm a bit stunned by the whole question. The conversation in my family would have gone....

"darling I need cow"

"how much for cow?"

"X baht"

"Sorry, only have X/2 baht"

"thank you darling"

"next week I looking new cow OK"

Thats what I am looking to do, as well. Put a ceiling on the available money. My inquiry is so that I can be reasonable with the x/2 baht response. BTW I think the livestock will be work animals (although pregnant females seem to be the best buy).

My brother's in law are both cowboys, they buy small and sell big. The going rate for small seems to be about 8000B for small and about 23,000B for big. A reasonable bull would be twice this with the sky's the limit for top stud stuff. (Like me )

[sceadugenga]

I just read Magnus post and his prices seem to be different to mine so I assume that where you are comes into the equation. I live near Chiang Rai and most of our cows are the big white humpy things...Brahmas? but I've seen a few smaller bulls around that look a bit like Herefords, a lot more solid than the Brahmas. In Australia crosses of these varieties are called Santa Gertrudis.

[chownah]

Hastings,

Using water buffalo as work animals is not usually an efficient way to do farming....it does avoid the use of fossil fuels so it should be encouraged I guess but be advised that it is not a very efficient use of human resources and that's why people have mostly given up on them for farming and have taken up the one cylinder, two wheel tractor. I'm not trying to be discouraging but just want to give you a heads up on this. If I were to raise water buffalo I would do so as a meat source since it is a regular part of the diet around here in the north....I would also teach some to plow and pull carts but that's just one of my personal things.

Chownah

Edited January 25, 2007 by chownah

[Martin]

'Chownah' is right.

The buffalo is slower at ploughing than the 'walking tractor'. It is also slower at getting from the house to the job. And it has to be looked after every day of the year.

A couple of years ago, after the price of diesel rose, I heard that there were tractors that were not being replaced on their demise, and farmers were going back to buffalo ploughing.

But it turned out to be a very small minority.

Just a very few who had plenty of time, and nothing else to do with it. (And, I suspect, not very machinery-happy anyway.)

The increase in the number of buffalos being kept was very much mostly due to the demand for meat.

I don't have a good 'eye' for buffalos. Can some experts look some buffalo over and tell which will be good as draught animals and which will quickly produce a good butchers' carcase?

I remember that, although the Welsh Black is classified as a dual-purpose breed, there were some that were good for beef but poor for milk and some that were good for milk but poor for meat, as well as those that were a good compromise.

[hastings]

Based on the information so far it appears that "I need cows." Both cost and efficacy seem to dictate that it is a more useful animal. I wonder what would be the cost of 6-10 cows. Can anyone make a case for buffalo? Thanks for the responses thus far.

Edited January 25, 2007 by hastings

[chownah]

Buffalo are hardier animals than cows and thrive on poorer quality forage. I have heard that you can leave a buffalo out in the rain with impunity while cows will suffer from it.

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

Based on the information so far it appears that "I need cows." Both cost and efficacy seem to dictate that it is a more useful animal. I wonder what would be the cost of 6-10 cows. Can anyone make a case for buffalo? Thanks for the responses thus far.

To be honest mate, based on the information so far what you need is to find out exactly why you need cows/buffalo. I've got to be honest I've never seen buffalo used as work animals here, I'm not saying they are'nt but it's got to be pretty rare.

As a very general rule of thumb expect to pay about 1000 bhat/month of age for cattle i.e 12 months old 12,000 bhat, mature cows will be sold on weight/condition, although this is a bit like saying a second hand car will cost X ammount of bhat (i.e it just depends on type condition ect). If you want to start a herd go for pregnant cows, if you want to fatten for beef 12-14 month bulls. Mabye it would be better just to work out what budget you have and just give that to them and tell them to get what they can.

[Martin]

"Mabye it would be better just to work out what budget you have and just give that to them and tell them to get what they can. "

That is sound advice there.

Also check up whether there will be any call later to inject 'working capital'. I don't know how cattle are kept down around Ubon, but there may be money to lay out for feed and the haulage of it, before the herd brings in the first income from sale of progeny.

Breeding cattle and improving the quality of your herd can be a fascinating business, but you do have to watch the business aspects of it, as well as the animal husbandry aspects.

[lingling]

Also check up whether there will be any call later to inject 'working capital'. I don't know how cattle are kept down around Ubon, but there may be money to lay out for feed and the haulage of it, before the herd brings in the first income from sale of progeny.

Without knowing the reason why the OP needs to get buffaloes or cows, if I am to speculate a bit and be cynical about it: maybe the 'working capital' is the whole idea? A tractor will not pile up any bills from the veterinary. A buffalo on the other hand... ...needs a daily shot of mehkong, a new mobile phone every now and then etc.

[pallasaide]

It sounds like you are been asked to buy some buffalo, and that this is not a case of you having any particular interest in them per say?

As well form what you have said it also sounds like they are been purchased more for the sake of purchase as opposed to any particular reason, as you have not stated any particular reason other than "which is more useful around the farm", which suggests that whoever you are buying on behalf of has not communicated to you that they themselves have any particular reason.

That been the case, this sounds like you will be best off getting a couple of buffalo.

Compared to a cow, a buffalo will offer a better return if looked at from a food requirement and care point of view over time versus a cow. A cow has the potential to generate a higher return but the that potential is dependant on a number of points you have not described.

For example, do you have a shed to keep it in overnight, do you have land to grow proper forage on, can you offer it good quality clean water. If you have the above (meaning you do not have to outlay money to purchase forage, you can grow it, and you have a shed on your own land, and you have ample clean water from a tap or the ground) then you have to potential to generate a higher return with a cow.

However if your answer to the above is no and you have to reply on rough grasses and natural bush or scrub land, do not have shed to keep the animal in, and will be using muddy river water for the animal, then you are going to be better off with a buffalo, not because it will give you a higher when and if you sell it or the calves, but because relative to the cow, the maintenance expenses between now and then will have been so much less than keeping the cow under the same conditions.

And if you do have the land to use for free to grow decent forage, remember you will need to water or irrigate it, you will need to maintain that field which means you will have to "cut and carry" forage each day or at least every second day i.e. not only is it a question of what is avalible for the cow, it is also a question of how much time is avalible to the person who will be looking after the cow, and just as important (if not more so) how much time that person will be willing to put in consitsantly day after day. If you have any question about that long term relaibility, then not withstanding any of the above or any other comments made by other forum members (which are all valid), then it really should be a buffalo.

For Tim

D.V.

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

[magnusvv]

I just read Magnus post and his prices seem to be different to mine so I assume that where you are comes into the equation. I live near Chiang Rai and most of our cows are the big white humpy things...Brahmas? but I've seen a few smaller bulls around that look a bit like Herefords, a lot more solid than the Brahmas. In Australia crosses of these varieties are called Santa Gertrudis.

Those prices came from Kamphaeng Phet province. Also my father-in-law got the buffalo from an old friend. Maybe they really are discounted prices as his friend is a trader in cattle and claims to be helping out his old buddy. I was just skeptical and completely ignorant about the going rates.

[teletiger]

Magnus,

seems like a pretty good price to me. 50,000 baht for 2 pregnant and 1 open buffalo cows, would be very cheap around here. Since the advent of the tractor, Ive never seen the financial attraction of buffalo, maybe as a status symbol. I find most of them very impressive, close up.

Hastings,

got yourself between a rock and a hard place here son Here's a few of my experiences.

Never buy a "pregnant" cow from a market, 'cause it's probably not.

Never buy a single cow from a market. It could be a freemartin. (female of a twin pair, who is sterile, 90%)

Buy a cow/calf pair. Make sure the cow is bagged up. (not just 4 teats......but also a full udder)

Try to buy locally, then you've got some comeback. Good luck.

Regards

[Donno]

From my experience Thais (including your GF/Wife) will try and get as much money out of you as possible. The Wife/GF will not consider that it's in your both best interests to save money.

[sfokevin]

Magnus,

seems like a pretty good price to me. 50,000 baht for 2 pregnant and 1 open buffalo cows, would be very cheap around here.

Very good price indeed!!! I was told it would cost 50,000 just to fix one!

[RamdomChances]

Never buy a "pregnant" cow from a market, 'cause it's probably not.

Never buy a single cow from a market. It could be a freemartin. (female of a twin pair, who is sterile, 90%)

Buy a cow/calf pair. Make sure the cow is bagged up. (not just 4 teats......but also a full udder)

Try to buy locally, then you've got some comeback. Good luck.

Good points, I had'nt thought of that, We usually buy from other farms but as the pregnancy part is so important in dairy we either check the cow there and then (take someone with us or call a local vet out) or if it's local and we know the people check as soon as we get back to the farm with the agreement that if it's not pregnant we will return it. To be honest we've never had any problems. Really if buying a female you need some indication that it's fertile, so either pregnate, with a suckling calf or just full of milk.

[ThailandTony]

Hi Guys....I know nada about buffalo (cows, not kwai = water buffalo) thats why I always leave it up to the Mrs....but just yesterday she was telling me that the arse has fallen out of the buffalo market (this may be local only) with prices dropping by 30-40% for the regular buffalo and up to 60% for the "hua suway" (these are the ones with the big ears and small heads)....so now would be a good time to buy! If you want something that works, buy a lod thai (2 wheel tractor) for papa for about 45K and you will be on his favourite son-in-laws list til at least Thursday...but don't expect any gratitude except from the Mrs coz you've just demonstrated (again) what a good falang.....errrr....catch you were. Then its off to the cattle market for some more short term payment/gratitude benefits.

[Waterbuffalofarm]

It sounds like you are been asked to buy some buffalo, and that this is not a case of you having any particular interest in them per say?

As well form what you have said it also sounds like they are been purchased more for the sake of purchase as opposed to any particular reason, as you have not stated any particular reason other than "which is more useful around the farm", which suggests that whoever you are buying on behalf of has not communicated to you that they themselves have any particular reason.

That been the case, this sounds like you will be best off getting a couple of buffalo.

Compared to a cow, a buffalo will offer a better return if looked at from a food requirement and care point of view over time versus a cow. A cow has the potential to generate a higher return but the that potential is dependant on a number of points you have not described.

For example, do you have a shed to keep it in overnight, do you have land to grow proper forage on, can you offer it good quality clean water. If you have the above (meaning you do not have to outlay money to purchase forage, you can grow it, and you have a shed on your own land, and you have ample clean water from a tap or the ground) then you have to potential to generate a higher return with a cow.

However if your answer to the above is no and you have to reply on rough grasses and natural bush or scrub land, do not have shed to keep the animal in, and will be using muddy river water for the animal, then you are going to be better off with a buffalo, not because it will give you a higher when and if you sell it or the calves, but because relative to the cow, the maintenance expenses between now and then will have been so much less than keeping the cow under the same conditions.

And if you do have the land to use for free to grow decent forage, remember you will need to water or irrigate it, you will need to maintain that field which means you will have to "cut and carry" forage each day or at least every second day i.e. not only is it a question of what is avalible for the cow, it is also a question of how much time is avalible to the person who will be looking after the cow, and just as important (if not more so) how much time that person will be willing to put in consitsantly day after day. If you have any question about that long term relaibility, then not withstanding any of the above or any other comments made by other forum members (which are all valid), then it really should be a buffalo.

For Tim

D.V.

I am going to be in the unenviable position of having to buy cows or buffalo in April in or near Ubon Ratchatani. Not being Thai, a farmer or a frequent visitor to the area, I have several questions.

First, what is the price of cows? buffalo? Where do you buy them (i heard a rumor that there is a livestock auction the first Friday of the month). Can you get them delivered? Is there a discount for buying 2 or more? While I know inherently that buffalo are more expensive, which are more useful around the farm?

Clearly I am out of my element, and any information would be appreciated.

[goldenmile]

i know a bit about cows. You can milk them or eat them etc

but what are buffaloes actually used for?

if you had to rate all the farmyard animals ie pig, sheep, cockerel, cow, etc for uselfulness and profitability, where would buffalo place in such a ranking?

i mean i grew up in cornwall where there were lots of farms, but i didnt see anyone with any bloody great buffalo. Are they the ones missing out or what?

edit: I forgot about shire horses and goats.

btw this is without doubt the most interesting section of Thaivisa and i am not being sarcastic.

Well done RC et al.

Edited February 1, 2007 by goldenmile

[goldenmile]

by the way i also had a gf from ubon ratchathani who wanted me to buy buffalo for her mother.

she wanted me to marry her too.

i did neither, but i did give her son my playstation so its not a completely sad tale.

[pete_r]

A friend at KMITL university gave me these figures for meat production:

Young calves are kept in herds feeding off the fields (bushes/scrubland) until they are big or old enough to be fattened (about 1 year old). At this point a young cow or buffalo sells for 5000 to 10000 Bahts depending on age and condition.

Feeding and fattening take one to two years, until the animal reaches 200kg. At this point the animal is sold to the slaughterhouse for 25000 to 30000 Bahts.

After slaughtering and cutting, the carcass is worth around 35000 Bahts.

These figures will vary depending on the season, the availability and price of cattle feed, and probably many other factors.