How do you file a tax return in Thailand with canadian pension income

[kingstonkid]

Before everyone tells me I don't have to file let me tell you 

 

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the Canadian Government sent me NR 4 tax slip which has a withheld tax which I can only get back I believe with my Thai tax return for overpayment.  

 

So  questions

 

I assume I call it income but???

 

Where do I and how do I show the withheld money?

 

Where do I get a tax id?  I live in PT

 

Should I take it in by hand to submit?

 

How do I claim the money I have input into the business to start it?

 

 

[lopburi3]

 

As for pension income believe tax on that is payable to the paying state Canada regardless of your living in Thailand from tax treaty.  Have no idea if there is actually tax to be paid - but as US can say I have to pay tax for my pension to US.  It seems you need to pay tax in Thailand to show you live here?  You also mention a business so you might want to obtain legal help.  Or perhaps write the withholding off if it may open pandora's box.  

https://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/Thailand_-eng.asp

 

Quote

 

Article 18

Pensions

1. Pensions and other similar remuneration, whether they consist of periodic or non-periodic payments, for past employment, arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident or the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

 

 

[cnx355]

I am Canadian and living in Thailand . As my pension and RPC and OA pension are normally  taxed in Canada at 25 % so I no need to file in Thailand.

 

I get my NR4  and if I want to claim some money back, I just  file my Canadian non-resident tax return to the  International  Tax Office in Ottawa. If you are happy with the 25 % no need to file in Canada.

 

OR 

You can also fill the following  form so Revenu Canada  can withheld less than 25 % but then you have to file a return before 30 JUNE

 

 Form NR5, Application by a Non-Resident of Canada for a Reduction in the Amount of Non-Resident Tax Required to be Withheld. dorm available on internet.

[Jeffrey346]

If you earn money here in Thailand you will need to pay Thai Tax. Tax on your pension is payable in your home country.

[lopburi3]

Just now, Jeffrey346 said:

If you earn money here in Thailand you will need to pay Thai Tax. Tax on your pension is payable in your home country.

Actually by law worldwide income is taxable in Thailand - although Thailand only actively seeks to tax those funds actually remitted into Thailand during the tax year.  But many countries, including Canada and USA, have bilateral double tax agreements with Thailand.  And these may define where pension income is subject to tax (which it does in the case of Canada).  

[SpeakeasyThai]

RE: ?

What about if you are UK citizen here on a retirement visa and earn all income from UK shares in UK.?

(I bet i get conflicting replies!)

Edited March 21, 2018 by SpeakeasyThai

[billp]

Because of the dual taxation treaty, your pension income is only taxable in Canada at the non-resident rate of 15%. If 25% was withheld, you can file a tax return to get the excess refunded. You have to file a standard T1 form for non-residents, but write on the top “Section 217” and include “Schedule C, Electing under Section 217,” and “Schedule A, Statement of World Income.”

This return ONLY refers to your “Section 217 Income” meaning in your case only your CPP and OAS pensions and any RRIF income, not interest or dividends or employment in Canada. But in effect for this return, you have to declare your world income from all sources and then go through a process which calculates what your taxes WOULD have been if you were a Canadian resident with all available exemptions. If your taxes withheld are more than this fictitious tax owing, you can claim a refund. You only have to file this if it’s BENEFICIAL to you and it must be filed by June 30th of each year. If you choose not to file, then the government just keeps the tax withheld and you’re good to go.

 

The whole process is described in detail here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4145/t4145-electing-under-section-217-income-tax-act-2016.html

 

If you want to get the tax withheld reduced to 15% in the future, you have to file a Form NR5 but then you’re obligated to file a Section 217 return for the next 5 years. Section 217 returns are the devil to calculate, so it’s up to you whether you want to put youself through this hell every year in order to get the tax withholding reduced. And if the Section 217 return shows you owe money (due to non-217 Canadian income) you have to pay it if you’ve filed NR5.

[WinterGael]

I have been doing a bit of reading on this and found that even living in Thailand you are still deemed a resident of Canada if you have an address there,  a bank account, etc   As such, you need to file a tax return each year abd are taxed as a resident.  The 25% is only withheld if you have applied for and been granted nonresident status, which suggests you also need Thai resident status.   The benefit to this is that once they take their 25% that's it.   You can work in Thailand and do not need to claim that on a Canadian tax return as you would if deemed a resident of Canada living abroad.

[Estrada]

I have lived here 24 years and retired 8 years ago on a British Pension. I went to the Thai Tax Office in Paradise Mall Bangkok. They found my Thai Tax I.D. and told me that as I was retired, they were not interested in me filing a tax return as long as I do not want to claim back the 10% withholding tax on my Thai dividends and bank interest.

[billp]

WinterGael: You only get “deemed resident” status if you work abroad for a Canadian embasssy or CIDA or if you’re a member or dependant of the Canadian armed forces stationed abroad. In that case you’re a Canadian taxpayer 100% on world income and you don’t have anything to do with the foreign tax regime. In addition, you must contribute to CPP and Employment Insurance if you’re working.

 

“You are a non-resident for tax purposes if you:

• normally, customarily, or routinely live in another country and are not considered a resident of Canada; or
• do not have significant residential ties in Canada; and
  • you live outside Canada throughout the tax year; or
  • you stay in Canada for less than 183 days in the tax year.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/non-residents-canada.html#rsdncstts

 

”Residential ties” means:

 

• “a home in Canada;
• a spouse or common-law partner in Canada; and
• dependants in Canada”

Bank accounts and credit cards are only secondary. For example, I have bank and brokerage accounts in Canada and I used to own a rental property in Vancouver, but I have been a non-resident for many years.

 

In addition: 

“If you established ties in a country that Canada has a tax treaty with and you are considered a resident of that country, but you are otherwise a factual resident of Canada, meaning you maintain significant residential ties with Canada, you may be considered a deemed non-resident of Canada. The same rules apply to deemed non-residents as non-residents of Canada.” (My emphasis.)

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-been-moved/determining-your-residency-status.html

Edited March 21, 2018 by billp
Clarity

[Kimber]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually by law worldwide income is taxable in Thailand - although Thailand only actively seeks to tax those funds actually remitted into Thailand during the tax year.  But many countries, including Canada and USA, have bilateral double tax agreements with Thailand.  And these may define where pension income is subject to tax (which it does in the case of Canada).  

 

Thankfully Australia DOESNT Tax old age pensions, Disability pensions....or any other pensions.  

Any government that tried to introduce it as a new policy would forfeit office. 

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Kimber said:

 

Thankfully Australia DOESNT Tax old age pensions, Disability pensions....or any other pensions.  

Any government that tried to introduce it as a new policy would forfeit office. 

But they do reduce payments for some living outside of Oz for extended periods of time it seems.  So maybe paying tax and being free to live where you want may not be such a bad deal as it may appear.  

[billp]

Just wanted to add for the OP, that since Canadian pension payments are tax-free in Thailand, they should not be declared to the Thais at all. The Thais will not refund Canadian tax paid. For that you have to make a Section 217 declaration to the Canadians as I described above. It’s worth going through the process. In some situations (eg high medical costs), you could get all your paid tax refunded.

[cnx355]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, billp said:

Because of the dual taxation treaty, your pension income is only taxable in Canada at the non-resident rate of 15%. If 25% was withheld, you can file a tax return to get the excess refunded. You have to file a standard T1 form for non-residents, but write on the top “Section 217” and include “Schedule C, Electing under Section 217,” and “Schedule A, Statement of World Income.”

This return ONLY refers to your “Section 217 Income” meaning in your case only your CPP and OAS pensions and any RRIF income, not interest or dividends or employment in Canada. But in effect for this return, you have to declare your world income from all sources and then go through a process which calculates what your taxes WOULD have been if you were a Canadian resident with all available exemptions. If your taxes withheld are more than this fictitious tax owing, you can claim a refund. You only have to file this if it’s BENEFICIAL to you and it must be filed by June 30th of each year. If you choose not to file, then the government just keeps the tax withheld and you’re good to go.

 

The whole process is described in detail here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4145/t4145-electing-under-section-217-income-tax-act-2016.html

 

If you want to get the tax withheld reduced to 15% in the future, you have to file a Form NR5 but then you’re obligated to file a Section 217 return for the next 5 years. Section 217 returns are the devil to calculate, so it’s up to you whether you want to put youself through this hell every year in order to get the tax withholding reduced. And if the Section 217 return shows you owe money (due to non-217 Canadian income) you have to pay it if you’ve filed NR5.

Excellent resume  !

[mogandave]

Actually by law worldwide income is taxable in Thailand - although Thailand only actively seeks to tax those funds actually remitted into Thailand during the tax year.  But many countries, including Canada and USA, have bilateral double tax agreements with Thailand.  And these may define where pension income is subject to tax (which it does in the case of Canada).  

I do not believe worldwide income is taxable