Is this OK to lower pool PH?

[carlyai]

 

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[Bagwain]

NO!!!

Sodium Hypochlorite is liquid chlorine.

pH goes up.

If you want to use chlorine to lower pH then use 90% Tri-Chlor or 90% tablets.

 

Hydrocloric acid is the best for lowering pH.

 

[carlyai]

NO!!!
Sodium Hypochlorite is liquid chlorine.
pH goes up.
If you want to use chlorine to lower pH then use 90% Tri-Chlor or 90% tablets.
 
Hydrocloric acid is the best for lowering pH.
 

Hi, yes and thanks again.



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[Valentine]

pH tends to rise when using salt chlorinator so can use HCL to reduce. It should be readily available in hardware stores as it is used to clean sandwash.

[SantiSuk]

Global House is the cheapest supplier of hydrochloric acid* IME.

 

280 baht for a 16 litre, which is 20 or 25kg (haven't weighed it), carboy when I last bought 2 months ago at Ubon Ratchathani's Global House. Don't bother with the 5 litre plastic containers available on the shelves of many builder's merchants for 150 to 180 baht, unless you have a very small pool. A container of that size would barely shift the pH more than 0.2ppm in my 90cu.m. pool.

Thanks to Valentine for the comment re salt chlorinators - always wondered why my pool consumes 4 carboys of HCL in a year, whereas it did not use anything like that in my first couple of years post build. I didn't use the chlorinator in those early days for reasons I now can't remember** 

 

 

*Also called muriatic acid sometimes. In transliterated thai it's 'ghoart gleu-ah'

 

**edit - oh yes, I remember now the installers screwed up the wiring and refused to believe me/return from Bangkok to fix; eventually I found a very helpful service engineer from Astral Australia who phoned me up to agree with my e-mexplanation of them having messed it up and talked me through the fix! 

[carlyai]

Global House is the cheapest supplier of hydrochloric acid* IME.
 
280 baht for a 16 litre, which is 20 or 25kg (haven't weighed it), carboy when I last bought 2 months ago at Ubon Ratchathani's Global House. Don't bother with the 5 litre plastic containers available on the shelves of many builder's merchants for 150 to 180 baht, unless you have a very small pool. A container of that size would barely shift the pH more than 0.2ppm in my 90cu.m. pool.

Thanks to Valentine for the comment re salt chlorinators - always wondered why my pool consumes 4 carboys of HCL in a year, whereas it did not use anything like that in my first couple of years post build. I didn't use the chlorinator in those early days for reasons I now can't remember** 
 
 

*Also called muriatic acid sometimes. In transliterated thai it's 'ghoart gleu-ah'
 
**edit - oh yes, I remember now the installers screwed up the wiring and refused to believe me/return from Bangkok to fix; eventually I found a very helpful service engineer from Astral Australia who phoned me up to agree with my e-mexplanation of them having messed it up and talked me through the fix! 

What's a carboy?

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[SantiSuk]

Images here:

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=carboy&rlz=1C1CHNQ_enTH546TH601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3r4DH26LaAhVMOY8KHRhPAP4Q7AkIWw&biw=1707&bih=796#imgrc=W7mfc_JbMPUHZM

 

HcL typically comes in plastic carboys - there are one or two of those imaged amongst the welter of glass carboys - I should have been more specific, stating 'plastic carboys'.

 

 

[and an e-mexplanation is a typo. S/be e-mail explanation!]

Edited April 5, 2018 by SantiSuk

[Bagwain]

So nobody gets confused and actually puts hydrochloric acid into the wrong type of container and get injured

Carboy = glass

Tub or drum = plastic

Hydrochloric acid should not be put into anything but PLASTIC!!! 

Plastic is impervious to hydrochloric acid!

You can only buy it in plastic!!

 

[carlyai]

Images here:
 
https://www.google.co.th/search?q=carboy&rlz=1C1CHNQ_enTH546TH601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3r4DH26LaAhVMOY8KHRhPAP4Q7AkIWw&biw=1707&bih=796#imgrc=W7mfc_JbMPUHZM
 
HcL typically comes in plastic carboys - there are one or two of those imaged amongst the welter of glass carboys - I should have been more specific, stating 'plastic carboys'.
 
 
[and an e-mexplanation is a typo. S/be e-mail explanation!]

Never heard of it before...I would have said a plastic container, but there again I'm Australian. [emoji3]

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[carlyai]

So nobody gets confused and actually puts hydrochloric acid into the wrong type of container and get injured
Carboy = glass
Tub or drum = plastic
Hydrochloric acid should not be put into anything but PLASTIC!!! 
Plastic is impervious to hydrochloric acid!
You can only buy it in plastic!!
 

The only thing I can remember that looks like a glass carboy is a flagon of sherry.
Don't mention about buying a carboy in Pattaya.

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[SantiSuk]

If you look at the images i posted a ref to you'll find that there are such things as plastic carboys. No doubt different nationalities and different industries use different terminology but i recall when i was a trainee chartered accountant we had to go out on inventory counts to check that companies were using reliable procedures to take count of inventories. An agricultural chemicals manufacturer I went to was putting product in plastic containers like the ones imaged and the ones I have always bought HcL in from Watsadus and pool shops. That manufacturer listed them as carboys, so I guess I've always adopted that term for a fairly uncommon container to retail!

 

If the pool pros on here say they are drums or something else then I'll defer of course to specific industry parlance. To me a drum is round!

[Bagwain]

4 hours ago, carlyai said:

The only thing I can remember that looks like a glass carboy is a flagon of sherry.
Don't mention about buying a carboy in Pattaya.

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[janclaes47]

9 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Global House is the cheapest supplier of hydrochloric acid* IME.

 

I don't know the global house HCL, but you do realize that HCL is available in different degrees?

 

 

[SantiSuk]

I'm 90% sure that all the HcL I ever bought, including the Global House product is 35%* I thought the HcL supplied for pools was always that strength, so perhaps the 5L plastic drums/bottles/carboys/whatever are stronger and I'm doing them a disservice.

 

Yep - I do know HcL in the generality of things comes in different strengths, because the toilet cleaners have different concentrations of HcL and I'm a fastidious buyer of household products  

 

[You couldn't possibly be interested, but I go for the relatively cheap 'Sumo' brand, cos it's the highest HcL strength at 20% and only 150 baht for 3.5 Litres in TescoL ('Toilet Duck' is 13 or 15% can't remember precisely and 188 baht). Thai wives are cr%p at cleaning IME (of one, but bar stool friends agree) and well water in Isaan messes up porcelain no end]

 

Yours tongue-in-cheek and with a bit of a grip on detail!

 

 

*PS - just looked at the GH label - they hedge their bets with "33% to 37%". Their plastic containers are 20kg which I think equates to 16 litres (dosage charts tend to work on volume not weight). HCL being heavy stuff. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by SantiSuk

[carlyai]

Will this do?

Seems like HCL is in demand. Global, ThaiWatsadu and a couple of pool shops seem to have run out.

I bought some 3M Heavy DutyDisinfectant Toilet Cleaner Waterloo.
It has the following chemical mix:

HCL 15%

Ethoxylated alcohol
7EO 1.5%
15EO 0.2%

Linear alkyl benzene sulfonic acid .29%

Can I use this?



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[Bagwain]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Will this do?

Seems like HCL is in demand. Global, ThaiWatsadu and a couple of pool shops seem to have run out.

I bought some 3M Heavy DutyDisinfectant Toilet Cleaner Waterloo.
It has the following chemical mix:

HCL 15%

Ethoxylated alcohol
7EO 1.5%
15EO 0.2%

Linear alkyl benzene sulfonic acid .29%

Can I use this?



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No.

(It has detergent in it)

It is good for cleaning the pool after re-grouting though & possibly sandwash!

If the pool shops are out of HCL you can order online or use 90% Tri-Chlor.

 

Do you have a salt chlorinator installed & working?

If so, HCL is really the only way to go.

 

Cheers

[carlyai]

No.
(It has detergent in it)
It is good for cleaning the pool after re-grouting though & possibly sandwash!
If the pool shops are out of HCL you can order online or use 90% Tri-Chlor.
 
Do you have a salt chlorinator installed & working?
If so, HCL is really the only way to go.
 
Cheers

Great. Thanks very much. I'm glad i asked.

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[carlyai]

Just checking in the shed...I do have some 90% trichloroisocyanuric acid.

So this will do?

I'll measure the ph again, but it was around 8.2.

So should I start with 0.5 kg of the 90% acid?

Thanks again.

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[carlyai]

Just checking in the shed...I do have some 90% trichloroisocyanuric acid.

So this will do?

I'll measure the ph again, but it was around 8.2.

So should I start with 0.5 kg of the 90% acid?

Thanks again.

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Yes I have a SWC.

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[Bagwain]

24 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Yes I have a SWC.

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Ok!

You do need to get your pH down! 

pH that high will at some stage give you algae problems.

 

Turn of the chlorinator. Once the Cl is down to just slightly yellow on the test kit add .5 kilo of 90%. sprinkle over the pool like feeding the chickens. 90% Tri-Chlor has a pH of 7. This should last for at least 3 days. If you have enough, do this till you get some HCL. Then start up the chlorinator!

 

In effect you are doing your pool some good by doing this as it is a shock to the water and will possible evert any algae outbreak that is about to happen!!

 

Cheers

[SantiSuk]

10 hours ago, carlyai said:

Will this do?

Seems like HCL is in demand. Global, ThaiWatsadu and a couple of pool shops seem to have run out.

I bought some 3M Heavy DutyDisinfectant Toilet Cleaner Waterloo.
It has the following chemical mix:

HCL 15%

Ethoxylated alcohol
7EO 1.5%
15EO 0.2%

Linear alkyl benzene sulfonic acid .29%

Can I use this?



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Dunno, but very expensive option. perhaps consider:

 

1. Where do you live - maybe someone has some spare or has info on local sources. I'd help you out in an emergency if i were within 50 clicks (or more if you drove it)

2. http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/-ph-minus/75-ph-minus.html. More expensive than acid liquid but in an emergency may be an option - ships within 2 working days per their website and delivery is one of their strong points IME.

3. take the 5kg bottle picture around all the local builders merchants. I know of 3 within 10km of my backwoods Isaan village that carry this or an equivalent (at 150 to 180 baht so 3 to 4 times more expensive than Global but in an emergency may be the best and quickest option

Edited April 9, 2018 by SantiSuk

[SantiSuk]

Only now seen the second page of the thread so had not seen that Bagwain had potentially got you sorted out.

 

That's a lot of pH reduction to be done. My 90 cu.m pool takes 4L just to reduce from 7.5 to 7.2. I'd get yours down to 7.7 as quickly as poss and then worry about the rest of the reduction at more leisure and less expense. I often run my pool up to 7.8 before re-dosing and it doesn't seem to do it any harm and have seen "ideal ranges" including 7.6 at the top end of ideal.

[carlyai]

I may have read my pool ph incorrectly as I found it difficult matching the color with the sample and test kit.

Saying that I'm just doing another 200 odd km trip to places that definitely have HCL, and they don't.

I thought I'd definitely find some this morning, and didn't use the 90% chlorine last night as my son and grandkids arrived.

I'll hustle them out of the pool early tonight and sprinkle on 1 kg.

I'll just keep the chlorinator off and use the chlorine and try to order some on



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[Bagwain]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

I may have read my pool ph incorrectly as I found it difficult matching the color with the sample and test kit.

Saying that I'm just doing another 200 odd km trip to places that definitely have HCL, and they don't.

I thought I'd definitely find some this morning, and didn't use the 90% chlorine last night as my son and grandkids arrived.

I'll hustle them out of the pool early tonight and sprinkle on 1 kg.

I'll just keep the chlorinator off and use the chlorine and try to order some on



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Colours are always an issue & everybody sees different!! 55555

 

1 Kg may be a bit to much.

Start with 1/2 kilo. (Strong shit)!!!!

 

Irrespective, the process I outlined will be good for the pool. In fact you should throw a handful of 90% in the pool monthly if it is getting used a lot!! The 90% will oxidise organics in the pool. (Shock treatment) Cheaper than buying Oxy Shock!!

 

If you find a supplier for HCL. It should be around 300 per 20/litres. Plus 100 baht deposit for the drum. Get your self 3 drums!! That way you will have plenty & when down to 1 replace!! Make sure it is secure and well ventilated for storage though!!

 

Gotta be a swim and a few Leos at some stage for this!!! 555

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Bagwain

[carlyai]

Colours are always an issue & everybody sees different!! 55555
 
1 Kg may be a bit to much.
Start with 1/2 kilo. (Strong shit)!!!!
 
Irrespective, the process I outlined will be good for the pool. In fact you should throw a handful of 90% in the pool monthly if it is getting used a lot!! The 90% will oxidise organics in the pool. (Shock treatment) Cheaper than buying Oxy Shock!!
 
If you find a supplier for HCL. It should be around 300 per 20/litres. Plus 100 baht deposit for the drum. Get your self 3 drums!! That way you will have plenty & when down to 1 replace!! Make sure it is secure and well ventilated for storage though!!
 
Gotta be a swim and a few Leos at some stage for this!!! 555

 
 
 
 
 
 

Swim and Leos provided if you're on your way to Mukdahan give us a yell.

Well I found a man who had some at Mahasericam (spelling definitely wrong) and he was on his way to Roiet so I met him there and exchanged it for B750. Looked like the container was 25 to 50kgs the way my son was struggling with it.

Put about 1 L in the pool already and see what happens.

Thanks for the info and I must be more vigilant with the pool.

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[SantiSuk]

I have bought HcL from a builders merchant on the Roi-et ring road on the Mukdahan side. I know a ThaiV member called Worm Farmer who supplied me with worm compost (about 3 years ago) and he took me round there as he has a pool himself. Maybe message him and get a map if you go that way sometime.

[carlyai]

I have bought HcL from a builders merchant on the Roi-et ring road on the Mukdahan side. I know a ThaiV member called Worm Farmer who supplied me with worm compost (about 3 years ago) and he took me round there as he has a pool himself. Maybe message him and get a map if you go that way sometime.

Great thanks. I need some more worms, compost and tea as well.

 

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