takeing care of a beloved one

[meatboy]

all those that read this pet section should beware of this terrible tick disease that can break your heart.after so called treatment that our boy had to endure for over 3yrs.

if your loved one is unfortunate to get it,TAKE CARE of the medication you are given.

when I first detected there was something wrong was jan.2015 according to the vet we caught it early,it was august 2015 tests showed he was clear,so we had 2more tests done still clear,but the vet thought best to make sure,this is part of what I want you all to take care of what you are given,steroids,antibiotics,besides others.these combined gave him a massive nose bleed that lasted from 5am.to 7pm.very lucky to survive.

after many different vets over the next 30months,with being at our mercy it was getting who to believe but the wife was too trusting.

the last one for over 4 months,we are getting there the vet kept telling us, ,but this time the wife thought different.4weeks later after visits to 2 of the best vetinary uni's he passed away with out any explanation.

now the warning don't except any medication that are plain in a bag,that doesn't have the brand name.these plain tablets you don't have a clue what you are given,we found the dearest was them plain ones up to a hundred at a time.these come in bottles maybe thousands at a time with nothing on them to say what the strength they are,and cost the vets peanuts.you don't know if they are in date or not.its the same with vacines you are at their mercy.just go on the web and you will find its easy if you have branded tabs for dogs.they will be be the same ones for humans.

so when you need to visit a vet ask for the branded tabs.most are what is prescribed for humans.and if you have to go to a pharmacy like we did at the end,nearly all are available otc..if you do get a good one try and keep on to him or her.never mind what it costs your beloved is worth more.

MR.&MRS.MEAT.

[meatboy]

further to my posting above,this is another concern that all of you that has beloved pets.

if you need to get your pet blood tested is,make sure you get a copy of the test,with the time and date it was carried out,especialy the time,as we found out a few tricks that some of the vets will do..the wife after spending 11hrs.at one of the big uni's,was told we are shutting down its emergency's only.time to go,i want to see the vet?

the wife asked for a copy of the test results,the answer she got,WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM FOR.after a bill for 5,200bht.

get your self aquainted with what means what,of the analysis report.so you can compare it with the normal range.

a few example's,

ALT =LIVER

CREATININE = KIDNEY'S.

WBC.COUNT =.WHITE BLOOD CELLS.

RBC=.RED BLOOD CELLS.

PLATELET COUNT [VERY IMPORTANT]

ALBUMIN.

PROTEIN.

these are only a few example's that you need to now about.

there are a lot of tests that you have a problem to compare,dont be afraid to ask.

the best one we found was the normal range of KASETSART UNIVERSITY.

we used to share some good information from a lot of members on here sadly they have all drifted away.

so any of the information posted can help save the life of a beloved JUST ASK.

MEATBOY.

.

 

[sappersrest]

Meatboy your posts are absolutely spot on.if you don't mind, May I add some information that maybe of some help to others.

The best test for blood parasites is a test called  real time PCR  , as you may well know they can remain in the blood for many moths.

From personal experience a SNAP test is unreliable,  two dogs a bit under the weather Snap test showed clear, but the real time PCR test showed Babesia and ecanis  in one dog and ecanis in the second.

 

Doxy worked ok after two months on the Thai dog ,but last month our Lurcher from the UK stilled showed as having ecanis, and has had another month on doxy.

After another  real time PCR a month later both dogs are clear.

It is really important that you insist on this test.

 

 

Cost of real time PCR test 1400 baht. at an independent lab.

Blood tests 400 baht each  at an independent lab

doxy from local pharmacy 4 baht per tablet.

 

All my drugs for my dogs I now get from my local  pharmacy after just getting 2 days supply from the vets.   the pharmacy even ask is this for you or your dog, they are really good even doing the dosage calculations for me ie mg/kilo.

Do not be afraid to ask and question your vet, get them to write down the name of the drugs being administered.

 

[meatboy]

13 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

Meatboy your posts are absolutely spot on.if you don't mind, May I add some information that maybe of some help to others.

The best test for blood parasites is a test called  real time PCR  , as you may well know they can remain in the blood for many moths.

From personal experience a SNAP test is unreliable,  two dogs a bit under the weather Snap test showed clear, but the real time PCR test showed Babesia and ecanis  in one dog and ecanis in the second.

 

Doxy worked ok after two months on the Thai dog ,but last month our Lurcher from the UK stilled showed as having ecanis, and has had another month on doxy.

After another  real time PCR a month later both dogs are clear.

It is really important that you insist on this test.

 

 

Cost of real time PCR test 1400 baht. at an independent lab.

Blood tests 400 baht each  at an independent lab

doxy from local pharmacy 4 baht per tablet.

 

All my drugs for my dogs I now get from my local  pharmacy after just getting 2 days supply from the vets.   the pharmacy even ask is this for you or your dog, they are really good even doing the dosage calculations for me ie mg/kilo.

Do not be afraid to ask and question your vet, get them to write down the name of the drugs being administered.

 

•  

thanks very much for your reply,out there is a multitude of info.that all pet owner's need to study.i think it was over 2yrs.ago I posted ARE BLOOD TESTS RELIABLE and can they be FIDDLED, A BIG YES.from holding the blood for a certain amount of time,not keeping it in the proper way plus we found out many tricks,unreliable testing machines.

snap tests should not be done for at least 12months after the last one.there are parasites will still show on a snap test although the blood tests say no parasites found,HEPATOOZON BEING ONE OF THEM,as one vet said they hide.

we to found the local pharmacy more help than the vets.about the tablets and colours it was 3yrs.ago I asked one of our respected members could you please id.some tablets for me, just plain,no dosage.

our boy was our life,we didn't care what we spent on him,but to all them that treated him they never ever cared for his welfare,one bit.

they all had farang virus[GREED].

so we now have another member who is willing to share their experience and any help they might ask for.

meatboy.

[wildewillie89]

SNAP tests only test for Lyme, Ehrlichia/Anaplasma in terms of tick diseases don't they? Also the SNAP test company does say additional testing is recommended. A good vet should also say this.

Other things like Babesia, Hepatozoon require additional testing - PCR. 

In general, PCR is probably the best way to go about things if the dog is displaying symptoms/bloods aren't right. 

Standard bloods and SNAP test on relatively healthy animals (annual testing) I have found to be sufficient. 

The best thing people can do is put their dogs on Bravecto/Nexgard and avoid a lot of these issues in the first place. Yes, they are hardcore drugs, but from what I have seen (both on this forum and relatives dogs), many spot ons don't seem to cut it here in Thailand. 

[meatboy]

13 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

SNAP tests only test for Lyme, Ehrlichia/Anaplasma in terms of tick diseases don't they? Also the SNAP test company does say additional testing is recommended. A good vet should also say this.

Other things like Babesia, Hepatozoon require additional testing - PCR. 

In general, PCR is probably the best way to go about things if the dog is displaying symptoms/bloods aren't right. 

Standard bloods and SNAP test on relatively healthy animals (annual testing) I have found to be sufficient. 

The best thing people can do is put their dogs on Bravecto/Nexgard and avoid a lot of these issues in the first place. Yes, they are hardcore drugs, but from what I have seen (both on this forum and relatives dogs), many spot ons don't seem to cut it here in Thailand. 

welcome back WW89,yes we need your inside info.as for vets there is a lot of conflicting answers to what you ask them.

if they think you know how to read a blood test they will tell you anything bar the truth.

its more than a month since our beloved one passed away,without one reason why.dont forget his last visit was to bkk.vetinary hospital with all his records,and spent 11rs.there after all the tests,no mention that he was ill just com back in 14 days.in 7days he passed away.if we had been told what to expect we could have at least had 7 more wonderfull days giving him all the love in the world,of every second,of every day.to loose him this way was the shock of our live's,we wernt given the chance to say goodbuy,that is why the tears keep flowing.i have to finish.

[wildewillie89]

I am on and off the forum now as I am on holidays from my main job (usually only use the forum when I sit at work). 

Got back on due to the rabies issue, my province has had reported cases of rabies which the forum has seemed to have covered in 4 of the areas. However, there are a couple more areas that I didn't see mentioned here, so thought I would inform people. 

 

Municipalities here unfortunately cant get their hands on vaccines (companies saying they have ran out). My wife put the question to the Vet Office today about this, they said companies were making fake vaccines, which is why there is a rabies spike, so this year there is a shortage due to more strict checking of vaccines. Pretty sad state of affairs really. I was in higher hope this year due to the training of extra staff to administer the vaccines so hopefully more dogs would be covered (getting somewhere towards herd immunity). But I guess money wins once again. 

[meatboy]

4 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

I am on and off the forum now as I am on holidays from my main job (usually only use the forum when I sit at work). 

Got back on due to the rabies issue, my province has had reported cases of rabies which the forum has seemed to have covered in 4 of the areas. However, there are a couple more areas that I didn't see mentioned here, so thought I would inform people. 

 

Municipalities here unfortunately cant get their hands on vaccines (companies saying they have ran out). My wife put the question to the Vet Office today about this, they said companies were making fake vaccines, which is why there is a rabies spike, so this year there is a shortage due to more strict checking of vaccines. Pretty sad state of affairs really. I was in higher hope this year due to the training of extra staff to administer the vaccines so hopefully more dogs would be covered (getting somewhere towards herd immunity). But I guess money wins once again. 

the wife has a friend who works in one of the offices concerned and they have no vaccine.last week we gave 100kil'o of chicken to a compound here,but we had it sent.there where too many strays around outside.

[wildewillie89]

13 minutes ago, meatboy said:

the wife has a friend who works in one of the offices concerned and they have no vaccine.last week we gave 100kil'o of chicken to a compound here,but we had it sent.there where too many strays around outside.

It is a shame really. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

so what we thought about what could be given to your beloved,TAKE CARE.

[meatboy]

20 hours ago, meatboy said:

so what we thought about what could be given to your beloved,TAKE CARE.

now all you guys that have a beloved should read the above posts,if vets are prepared to give your beloved

fake vaccines what else,go back 5months before my beloved past away he was being treated with bags full of tablets and many many injections,did it do him any GOOD? NO after tests,ultra sounds,x-rays iv,and of course bags of cash,HE PASSED AWAY.so as the late issanbirder said IF HE SEEMS WELL LET HIM BE. that is very true when my boy wasn't given any meds.he was very very happy.so if its not an injury D.I.Y.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[meatboy]

2 hours ago, meatboy said:

now all you guys that have a beloved should read the above posts,if vets are prepared to give your beloved

fake vaccines what else,go back 5months before my beloved past away he was being treated with bags full of tablets and many many injections,did it do him any GOOD? NO after tests,ultra sounds,x-rays iv,and of course bags of cash,HE PASSED AWAY.so as the late issanbirder said IF HE SEEMS WELL LET HIM BE. that is very true when my boy wasn't given any meds.he was very very happy.so if its not an injury D.I.Y.

meatboy love me love my dog.

info just came to light 30minutes ago through facebook,LOVE DOG its in thai sounds like thai rak ma.FRIGHTNING.

[wildewillie89]

Fortunately many vet clinics import their vaccines/use non-Thai companies. I investigated it a little today due to I also worrying about my own dogs vaccinations. Vets come under more scrutiny if a dog has been vaccinated, it is logged in the books and then the dog still gets rabies, so many use the non-Thai company vaccines for this reason.

Tessabans generally use Thai company vaccines for obvious budget reasons. This year the problem is supposedly fixed though, just no vaccines getting around the country.  

Edited April 4, 2018 by wildewillie89

[ETatBKK]

@meatboy, sorry for the sad experience.  the posts above really alerted me sending our love one to the vet is not the best neither is the safe solution.  we as a pet parent, we should know how to deal with the vet and what to do with the dosing and the vaccinations.

 

some vets actually give us the labels of the vaccination, and I keep them just for safe.  what else we should prepare before we take our love one to the vet ?

 

MOD, should pin this post for future reference.

[meatboy]

8 hours ago, ETatBKK said:

@meatboy, sorry for the sad experience.  the posts above really alerted me sending our love one to the vet is not the best neither is the safe solution.  we as a pet parent, we should know how to deal with the vet and what to do with the dosing and the vaccinations.

 

some vets actually give us the labels of the vaccination, and I keep them just for safe.  what else we should prepare before we take our love one to the vet ?

 

MOD, should pin this post for future reference.

thanks for your kind words,me and the wife have not got a clue as to why our boy died so suddenly,if he was to go that is the way I wanted stood up then his legs went from under him,no pain,no heavy breathing,just a few moments in his mummys arms,4 heartbeats then the end.

it was only a few days that he was sent home from bkk.to go back in 14days,i shall be checking how many times he was vaccinated,nothing will bring him back or cause these 2 legged parasites to loose one minutes sleep,just glee while they count the money they robbed off my wife.

so once again I cant repeat it enough TAKE CARE OF YOUR BELOVED.

AN ANGRY MEATBOY.

 

[wildewillie89]

I would still vaccinate with the vets at the clinics, rather than vaccinate ourselves or get the local government to do it. Just to make sure the dates/company stickers are in the book. Looked into it lately, it obviously isn't a full proof system with all vets (will always get bad eggs), but a better option than the other two. One dog that has just been found to have died of rabies in Chaiyaphum was vaccinated by the owner's friend (rather than vet), and missed its second dose (didn't have the next puppy rabies shot). The vaccine was a real vaccine bought from a clinic (sticker from reputable company), however, just didn't get the full course (not sure of age first one was given). I think in America, rabies vaccines are considered invalid unless administered by a vet. Just get vet to do core vaccines, and make sure they are proper brands/not expired (annually test if near a lab that has titer testing - not many of us). Keep the vaccine labels the vets put in the book for evidence if required.

 

I would also still recommend seeing a vet if a pet is sick, as they have the means to give pretty instant basic test results (within 30 minutes). Although not full proof, SNAP is about 95% accurate, but of course if the dog is sick order additional testing (as the SNAP company says to do). But choose the vet wisely. It is like doctors here, took me a fair few doctors to finally find one I felt was equal to back home in my province (ended up with a pediatric cardiologist as my GP and has ended up a good friend due to shared interests).

It is good to form a bit of a relationship with the vet. Not a know it all type relationship, just one based on mutual respect. Every now and then I will take in papers showing Western trends, or what procedures I may or may not want done (e.g. gastropexy) to see how confident/what experience he has in doing them. Make the vet work hard for their money.

What this relationship does is form the basis of how the visits will go down in the future (as usually Thai remember the farang that comes in). It also gives continual extra information the vet will remember about the dog that may be forgotten during a stressful vet visit when the dog is sick (where they live, daily activities, diet, what medication they are on, potential exposure to disease etc). One of my puppies was quite sore and our vet told us the Thai textbooks say this is a tick disease, but I know your dogs and after an examination/blood test he came to the conclusion it was growing pains. 7 days of pain killers were prescribed and the dog has been fine since the first day pill it took. 

The most important thing this relationship does though is it puts the vet on their toes. They know you have a fair idea about what tests should be carried out and also what treatment is best depending on results. They should also go through blood tests step by step explaining what each reading means. Good vets will treat accurately to keep you, rather than use you if they know it will mean never getting business again . If they don't, then best not to see them again anyway.

Obviously many lack the technology and up to date research/trends as vets back home depending where we all live, but that is the same with every aspect of the country. We are handed a lot of things back home on a platter. In Thailand, you just have to make sure you are on the ball, pick your vets like you pick your doctors, do things based on the environment you live, make medical staff earn their money, and the dogs should remain relatively healthy. It is hard work but achievable, my puppy turns 2 this month - no tick diseases as of yet in a community of 430+ plus dogs roaming the streets infecting each other. And yes, if the dog seems pain free and happy enough, then let it be. However, be weary of this as some stages of tick diseases are symptom free before they move into chronic stages (why it is best to treat in early stages when the parasites aren't hiding from the antibiotics). 

*Yes, going to the vet has the chance to be dangerous (even back home it is the same), but not going is more dangerous as we do not have the technology to find out what particular parasite a dog may have or what sub-species of the same parasite the dog has (they are not all the same and do require different treatments). Treating at home based on symptoms without tests would be incredibly irresponsible and dangerous seeing as tick diseases are famous for mimicking symptoms for pretty much every disease out there. There are bad vets everywhere, just make sure you hold your vet accountable to get the best for your animals.

Edited April 5, 2018 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

keep your beloved safe,there are some awfull stories on what the wife picks up on different facebook forums.

you yourself should be able to know a genuine one from a fake.

there are so many happenings this past 3yrs.with all the trips the wife done to they vetinary services she was the backbone of our time the 3 of us had together,that is why she can never go through it again.

[meatboy]

as we are looked upon as nothing more than MONEY TREE'S.they all knew the love we had for our boy,and didn't they take advantage of it.

yesterday I read a great deal of dangers of annual vaccinations,by the doglistener and he said exactly the same,the vets in the UK. are now driven by GREED.

so as nobody here don't care one iota what is happening to this country,sadly it can and will get WORSE.

[wildewillie89]

Annual vaccines are just silly (as they are not needed), but what is even more dangerous is the annual combination vaccination (7 in 1). Especially as Leptospirosis is included in it. It is well known the Leptospirosis vaccine has high risk for side effects even on its own, let alone added to all the others. Not to mention it doesn't even work. They make the combination vaccine as it has to be given annually so companies and vets can still keep money coming in. It is hard to find, but my vet stocks the 3 in 1 (core vaccines). After puppy hood, you really don't need to even vaccinate the dog (other than rabies) for the rest of its life, but if choose to can just do the 3 in 1 with rabies every 3 years. 

Vets everywhere are driven by greed. From memory, vaccines make up roughly 14% of a vets income according to Dr. Schultz (the guy whose research was used to finally change vaccine guidelines). He said annual vaccines were a recommendation that was made in 1978 with absolutely no scientific validation. The Western trend is slowly starting to move towards titer and not vaccinate. We never vaccinated our dogs (after puppy shots) back home, the biggest troubles we had were ACL (knee joints going), but desexing significantly increases the chances of that happening so no surprises. 

Thailand, I think it is a bit of three things. One, money. Two, not allowing or listening to outside experts. The World Small Animal Vet Association have already told them they should change rabies to 3 years. But, I think also a fear thing. Even many Western vets, I believe, would vaccinate annually if living in the same sort of environment (rabies outbreaks). Sometimes emotions take over logic due to the always 'what if'. I think that is more human nature though. For example, vets recommend the Lepto vaccine if live in an endemic area. Whereas the academic vets (who do the actual studying on the vaccines) don't use that vaccine in endemic areas as obviously they can take the emotional side out of it as they are so clued up on the matter. 

On a plus side, I found out today that the vaccine companies should be releasing 'real' vaccines for Tessabans to vaccinate dogs this May. The delay was due to vaccines being checked by the government. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by wildewillie89