On 2018-04-07 at 9:42 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

Only one individual, Alexander Litvinenko, has ever been killed using Polonium as a weapon and it's not known how it was administered. A teapot in the hotel where Litvinenko met with two Russian agents was found to be "off the charts" in terms of Polonium levels so it seems possible the tea was dosed with it. In any event, that hardly establishes it as some kind of standard practice.

     Sorry, I got this confused with Georgi Markov, the Bulgarian dissident who was assassinated with a 1.7 mm tiny pellet filled with Ricin, using a specially built one shot umbrella gun fired using compressed air.  

On a September evening in London in 1978, Markov, a prize-winning Bulgarian author and BBC broadcaster who had been classified as a "non person" by the communist authorities, was waiting alongside commuters for a bus on Waterloo Bridge when he felt a stinging pain in his thigh. 

A heavily built stranger dropped an umbrella, mumbled "sorry" and fled in a taxi. 

Markov thought little of the seemingly trivial incident and continued his journey home; he was dead of a high fever in three days and was later buried in Dorset. 

The James Bond-style murder weapon was an umbrella, partly developed by the Soviet KGB, which fired a pellet the size of a pinhead, diameter only 1.7 mm ...  containing the extremely deadly poison ricin.  A dose of purified ricin powder the size of a few of the tiniest grains of table salt will kill an adult human.

    When they found the extemely tiny pellet in his thigh, they had to examine it under  microscope to notice the very tiny holes in its surface from which the Ricin was delivered to Markov's body. 

The samples from Salisbury contained BZ nerve agent.... part of chemical arsenals of the U.S., Britain and other NATO countries.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-swiss-lab-analysis-shows-nerve-agent-designed-in-west/ 

 

This could explain why they recovered rapidly

2 hours ago, Topdoc said:

The samples from Salisbury contained BZ nerve agent.... part of chemical arsenals of the U.S., Britain and other NATO countries.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-swiss-lab-analysis-shows-nerve-agent-designed-in-west/ 

 

This could explain why they recovered rapidly

 

Err no. The article linked says Russia claims to have received confidential information to this effect. Obviously, the same demands for "evidence" are not raised by the usual suspects.

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

The samples from Salisbury contained BZ nerve agent.... part of chemical arsenals of the U.S., Britain and other NATO countries.
https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/russia-swiss-lab-analysis-shows-nerve-agent-designed-in-west/ 

 

This could explain why they recovered rapidly

This is an unconfirmed claim by Russian foreign minister Segei Lavrov. He says it is based on an unpublished report by a Swiss laboratory, one of four that carried out analyses on behalf of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW). The official report from the OPCW says that the agent used was Novichok A-234 and even Lavrov admits that the report he refers to, says that A-234 was found in the samples tested.

More Russian government propaganda or diversionary tactics.

 

Just the same as Russia claiming there was no chemical attack in Syria (not just that the Syrian government didn't do it, but that it didn't happen period), when it's been confirmed by multiple sources that there was.

 

These days under Putin, they have ZERO credibility on the world stage. Just serial liars, the same as Trump.

8 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

This is an unconfirmed claim by Russian foreign minister Segei Lavrov.

Is it being denied by Downing Street? 

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

More Russian government propaganda or diversionary tactics.

 

Just the same as Russia claiming there was no chemical attack in Syria (not just that the Syrian government didn't do it, but that it didn't happen period), when it's been confirmed by multiple sources that there was.

 

These days under Putin, they have ZERO credibility on the world stage. Just serial liars, the same as Trump.

But Trump said there was a chemical attack, so maybe he was lying then, and Putin  wasn't.

 

Don't tell me they both were lying about it, because that would be contradictory.

Up date...

 

Quote

The nerve agent used to poison former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia was delivered "in a liquid form", the Department for Environment says.

Only "a very small amount" was used on the pair, who were found unconscious on a bench in Salisbury on 4 March.

A massive clean-up operation is beginning to decontaminate nine sites in the city - it will take several months and cost millions of pounds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43798068

 

My thoughts are that the substance was diluted in an oil and could have been applied from something like a tipex bottle, brushing it along the top of the door handle without putting the poisoner at risk, the quantity used was probably only enough to kill the two of them, which would explain the time for it to take affect.

 

Also think the Russians may have followed his daughter to find out where he lived when she landed in the UK the day before.

On 15/04/2018 at 8:25 PM, nausea said:

Is it being denied by Downing Street? 

No, but as they were neither the authors of the report not responsible for its publication it would not be their place to do so.

 

However the OPCW, who commissioned the independent analyses and published the report into their findings has categorically denied Lavrov's claim. They said the only mention of BZ was the fact that it was used in a control sample as part of the testing process. They stated that no BZ was found in the samples from the Skripal poisoning.

 

A spokesperson for the OPCW described Lavrov's words as, "a craven attempt to mislead the international community."

I think a certain UK news paper is claiming that they're close to identifying the perpetrators, through CCTV and what have you. If that is true then it changes the whole story.  Good hard evidence is a little different from circumstantial BS. I, for one, would get behind the UK 100%, if it was proved the Russians were behind this.

Theya re safely back home ....
 

The British police have identified suspects in the nerve agent attack on a former Russian spy and his daughter, and the suspects are believed to be in Russia. British authorities have said it is “highly likely” that the Skripals were poisoned on orders of Russian officials, perhaps as a lesson to other potential defectors

If officials in Britain have indeed identified suspects, it is highly unlikely that Russia would agree to extradite them. A few weeks after the death of Alexander V. Litvinenko, a former officer in the Federal Security Service, or F.S.B., a British officials asked to speak to five suspects living in Russia. But their Russian counterparts said they could only be questioned or tried in Russia.

 

Back home and a hearty "Mission Accomplished" from Prince Vlad

On 18/04/2018 at 9:24 PM, Basil B said:

Up date...

 

 

My thoughts are that the substance was diluted in an oil and could have been applied from something like a tipex bottle, brushing it along the top of the door handle without putting the poisoner at risk, the quantity used was probably only enough to kill the two of them, which would explain the time for it to take affect.

 

Also think the Russians may have followed his daughter to find out where he lived when she landed in the UK the day before.

 

It wouldn't explain the time taken: the tinyest amount of A234 kills in minutes.

 

Sergei Skripal was listed in the White Pages btw.

10 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

It wouldn't explain the time taken: the tinyest amount of A234 kills in minutes.

 

Sergei Skripal was listed in the White Pages btw.

Where is your evidence that, "the tiniest amount of A234 kills in seconds"? Everything I read suggests that its effects are not well known and no matter how toxic it might be, it would obviously depend on how much a person was exposed to and in what form.

 

For instance, the scientist Andrei Zheleznyakov, was exposed to Novichok while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987 and although he eventually died, it took him 5 years (not mere seconds) to finally succumb to the effects.

Edited April 22, 20188 yr by GroveHillWanderer

Meanwhile Back on the Volga

The Pattaya ...Moscow .. Connection.  Death by Balconey ...

 

Journalism is a dangerous trade in Russia. Dozens of Russian journalists have been murdered since 2000,  They weren't covering shooting wars or riots but powerful Russian institutions. A surprising number have implausibly fallen or slipped to their deaths.

 

In March 2007, Ivan Safronov, who was investigating the sale of Russian arms to Iran and Syria, died after falling from a fifth-floor window. It was ruled a suicide.

In November 2009, independent broadcaster Olga Kotovskaya fell to her death from a 14th-floor window. She had been battling for control of her station with a member of the government. Her death was also ruled a suicide.

In February 2012, Victor Aphanasenko, editor of a newspaper that had been investigating paramilitary raids in southern Russia, died after slipping in his home.

In November 2015, Mikhail Lesin, who was often described as President Vladimir Putin's state media czar but who had fallen out of favor with him, was found dead after a fall in his hotel room in Washington, D.C. The FBI says he fell from extreme drinking and had "blunt force trauma to the head" and injuries to his neck, arms, legs and torso. That must have been some fall.

In March 2017, Nikolai Gorokhov, the lawyer for Sergei Magnitsky, who was the source of reporting on Russia's largest tax fraud, fell from a fourth-story window while trying to move a bathtub. Russian authorities made that explanation with a straight face.

Their names are on a roll of honor with almost 30 more dauntless Russian reporters. Let us hope brave Russian journalists stay away from windows.

Edited April 22, 20188 yr by LomSak27

4 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Where is your evidence that, "the tiniest amount of A234 kills in seconds"? Everything I read suggests that its effects are not well known and no matter how toxic it might be, it would obviously depend on how much a person was exposed to and in what form.

 

For instance, the scientist Andrei Zheleznyakov, was exposed to Novichok while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987 and although he eventually died, it took him 5 years (not mere seconds) to finally succumb to the effects.

 

Firstly, whilst Andrei Zheleznyakov was working on A232, it's not clear what, exactly, he was exposed to that caused his eventual death.

 

Secondly, all the information out there on A234 (including from Russian Scientists who worked on developing it)states that, in liquid form, once ingested, it takes 30 seconds to two minutes to start attacking the central nervous system, and death follows shortly thereafter. Remember, cases of Sarin poisoning (a much weaker toxin), such as that of Kim Jong Nam, resulted in very quick deaths.

15 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Where is your evidence that, "the tiniest amount of A234 kills in seconds"? Everything I read suggests that its effects are not well known and no matter how toxic it might be, it would obviously depend on how much a person was exposed to and in what form.

 

For instance, the scientist Andrei Zheleznyakov, was exposed to Novichok while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987 and although he eventually died, it took him 5 years (not mere seconds) to finally succumb to the effects.

If one molecule would kill in seconds then indeed those who say the tiniest amount are right but I would say we are talking micro grams...

 

A micro gram of water has roughly one hundred quadrillion molecules and volume would be 1/10mm cubed. I accept that one molecule of Novichok is more complicated than H2O but we are still talking billions of trillions...

 

I still think a few micro grams were diluted in a liquid that would dissolve it uniformly and a small amount had been applied to Sergei Skripal's front door handle.

 

   

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

If one molecule would kill in seconds then indeed those who say the tiniest amount are right but I would say we are talking micro grams...

 

A micro gram of water has roughly one hundred quadrillion molecules and volume would be 1/10mm cubed. I accept that one molecule of Novichok is more complicated than H2O but we are still talking billions of trillions...

 

I still think a few micro grams were diluted in a liquid that would dissolve it uniformly and a small amount had been applied to Sergei Skripal's front door handle.

 

   

 

So, was the idea to kill him or make him ill?

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

So, was the idea to kill him or make him ill?

Kill him and/or his daughter, they want everybody to believe they did it, just not be able to prove it...

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 20188 yr by Basil B

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Kill him and/or his daughter, they want everybody to believe they did it, just not be able to prove it...

 

 

 

 

For such past masters, who have spent so much time and money and research on such things, they made a p1ss poor job of it, didn't they?

22 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

For such past masters, who have spent so much time and money and research on such things, they made a p1ss poor job of it, didn't they?

Yes they did...

Troll post reported and removed.