Buying a condo in Bangkok - pros and cons

[WebGuy]

Hi,

 

Being in Thailand on and off for 10 years and lived there for 4 years, I heard a lot of pros and cons about buying a condo in Bangkok, mostly cons.

Would you please post your pros and cons about buying a condo in Bangkok for a foreigner?

 

Many thanks,

[tingtongtourist]

- high cost. can stay in rented condo nearly 50 years for what is the purchase price of condo in my area.

- Thai like to buy new. you will never re-sell unless you mark down millions off your cost.

- if any change, life/ visa/ country/laws..can leave rented condo tomorrow. not so if buy.

- hard to get money out of the country (if sell)

- would you every really trust these companies to maintain properties properly?

- new laws..cannot rent out your condo shortime/ air b&b style.

 

there are many others i forget now but the cons are many!

 

 

AND: we are not allowed to own land here for many good reason.

(no1 that it would be good for us and bad for Thais.)

 

think about it. if condo ownership was lucrative and could make easy money-

. then they would never have allowed us to do it in the first place!

that simple really!

 

no, they let us have condo because they know the farang will always loose, and a Thai will win

 

 

[mstevens]

Just a few cons off the top of my head:

 

- rents in Bangkok are often reasonable so there is no need to buy - in fact financially, buying might not be the best decision as many buildings deteriorate over time and are not that well maintained so your "asset"s value may in fact decrease.

- with Bangkok condo rents relatively low, you might be able to enjoy a better quality of building in a better location than if you bought (especially if you are older).

- if you rent you can move easily whereas if you buy a condo (and especially if you have a large amount of your capital tied up in a condo), moving might not be so easy.  And in Bangkok there are a zillion reasons why one day you might realise you want or need to move.

- selling a condo in Thailand is not always easy so while it's very easy to buy, it might be very difficult to sell unless you drop the price significantly.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I have no regrets for the 10+ years I rented when living in Bangkok, paying over 3 million baht for the privilege of living in other people's condos.  Some would say this is wasted money (and there is an argument that it was), but my viewpoint is that I was able to afford to live in some very nice buildings in central Bangkok in condos I would not have dreamed of being able to buy outright.  That made it very much worth while for me.

[metisdead]

Moved to the Real Estate forum for knowledgeable answers. 

[simoh1490]

5 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

- high cost. can stay in rented condo nearly 50 years for what is the purchase price of condo in my area.

- Thai like to buy new. you will never re-sell unless you mark down millions off your cost.

- if any change, life/ visa/ country/laws..can leave rented condo tomorrow. not so if buy.

- hard to get money out of the country (if sell)

- would you every really trust these companies to maintain properties properly?

- new laws..cannot rent out your condo shortime/ air b&b style.

 

there are many others i forget now but the cons are many!

 

 

AND: we are not allowed to own land here for many good reason.

(no1 that it would be good for us and bad for Thais.)

 

think about it. if condo ownership was lucrative and could make easy money-

. then they would never have allowed us to do it in the first place!

that simple really!

 

no, they let us have condo because they know the farang will always loose, and a Thai will win

 

 

What a bunch of nonsense, you deserve to be banned for posting false information!

 

When you bring money into the country to buy a condo. you need to specify the purpose of that money. When you eventually sell the condo tax must be paid on the sale and a blue receipt will be issued,  the banks recognise that as a tax receipt which in conjunction with your inbound transfer receipt will allow you to export the money overseas again - I personally have done that three times in 16 years.

 

Secondly, you don't specify the size of the unit or its location but there is a very buoyant used condo market in Thailand, especially in Bangkok - what and where you buy will be key to your success. Of the condo's I have previously owned here, each was sold within six months of going onto the market and each sale recovered my initial costs hence I lived for free for the period of ownership, one made a small profit in capital terms - you should not expect to buy and see large scale capital appreciation, unless you're very lucky and/or you hold it for a long time.

 

Buying off plan is always a risk but there is money to be made if you do it right and go with a large well-known developer etc., the secondary market is easier and more certain, especially if you just want somewhere of your own to live.

 

Condo management is worth looking at closely, the successful buildings and happiest tenants are the ones where the management is solid, it's a key factor.

 

 

 

 

 

[HampiK]

Here a few Pro's as the negative aspects are already covered:

• As the Condo is my own I can change furniture and interior as I like
• When you plan to stay longer you know your costs, with rents this could go higher in 3-4 years (of course also could go down)

Normally the price for buying is about 200 times the monthly rent. This is the general rule and of course there are condos which are sold higher.

If you buy a condo for yourself to life in it, make sure you know the location. Maybe if possible try to rent a few months before you buy, that would make it easier for you to see if you really like it.

About the many people who tell horror stories about bad neighbors.

- Some of this stories are from hearsaying (and not even true) and a big part I would say are at cheaper locations, where this for us bad behavior is more common.

 

[simoh1490]

I just checked on the rental cost of a two bed 150 square metre condo in a building in Chiang Mai where I used to own a unit and it's the same today as it was in 2005, THB 25,000 per month, the sales prices remain broadly the same also at THB 6.5 mill.

Edited April 16, 2018 by simoh1490

[Wiggy]

I bough my condo 18 years ago for 2m baht. The unit next door which is the same size just sold for 4.5m. I’m happy I bought one. I’d rather fill my pockets than someone else’s by paying rent. That said, it’s probably only sensible if here long term though. 

[tingtongtourist]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

What a bunch of nonsense, you deserve to be banned for posting false information!

 

When you bring money into the country to buy a condo. you need to specify the purpose of that money. When you eventually sell the condo tax must be paid on the sale and a blue receipt will be issued,  the banks recognise that as a tax receipt which in conjunction with your inbound transfer receipt will allow you to export the money overseas again - I personally have done that three times in 16 years.

 

Secondly, you don't specify the size of the unit or its location but there is a very buoyant used condo market in Thailand, especially in Bangkok - what and where you buy will be key to your success. Of the condo's I have previously owned here, each was sold within six months of going onto the market and each sale recovered my initial costs hence I lived for free for the period of ownership, one made a small profit in capital terms - you should not expect to buy and see large scale capital appreciation, unless you're very lucky and/or you hold it for a long time.

 

Buying off plan is always a risk but there is money to be made if you do it right and go with a large well-known developer etc., the secondary market is easier and more certain, especially if you just want somewhere of your own to live.

 

Condo management is worth looking at closely, the successful buildings and happiest tenants are the ones where the management is solid, it's a key factor.

 

 

 

 

 

i cannot see anything i post as reason for banning. please point out why i should be banned?

 

all the points i made are valid, i guess your majour trolling point is getting money out of the country?

there are multiple threads and many posters talk about how they have trouble and how banks make it hard.

anyway, your explanation sounds reasonable but to me, going through all that mallarky is just add another con to not buy

 

[newnative]

    Some good advice has been posted.  Certainly there are some advantages and disadvantages to both renting and buying.  I think some people are happy being renters with the flexibility to move and not have a lot invested in property.  For myself and my partner, we like owning and being able to make each condo our home that reflects our personal style with our own furniture and artwork.   We have rented at times out of necessity and hated it--we are owners at heart.

   We have bought and sold a number of condos in Pattaya, always at a profit.  We are in the process of buying a small Bangkok condo as a getaway place.  We bought off-plan at a good price from a very well-known Thai builder that does a good job of maintaining its buildings.  The condo is being built in an excellent location near the skytrain/subway.  Likely to at least maintain its value and if we decided to rent it at some point it should attract renters with the good location and building amenities.  It's important when buying to do your homework and take your time.

[NutsMango]

Pros

 

- you will make the seller very happy person

 

Cons

 

- everything else

[JAZZDOG]

13 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

- high cost. can stay in rented condo nearly 50 years for what is the purchase price of condo in my area.

- Thai like to buy new. you will never re-sell unless you mark down millions off your cost.

- if any change, life/ visa/ country/laws..can leave rented condo tomorrow. not so if buy.

- hard to get money out of the country (if sell)

- would you every really trust these companies to maintain properties properly?

- new laws..cannot rent out your condo shortime/ air b&b style.

 

there are many others i forget now but the cons are many!

 

 

AND: we are not allowed to own land here for many good reason.

(no1 that it would be good for us and bad for Thais.)

 

think about it. if condo ownership was lucrative and could make easy money-

. then they would never have allowed us to do it in the first place!

that simple really!

 

no, they let us have condo because they know the farang will always loose, and a Thai will win

 

 

That pretty much covers it. "Drop off the key Lee and get yourself free"

[JAZZDOG]

7 hours ago, Wiggy said:

I bough my condo 18 years ago for 2m baht. The unit next door which is the same size just sold for 4.5m. I’m happy I bought one. I’d rather fill my pockets than someone else’s by paying rent. That said, it’s probably only sensible if here long term though. 

My investments over that 18 years based on THB$ 2.0M initial investment would be worth THB$ 17.0M

[JAZZDOG]

7 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I just checked on the rental cost of a two bed 150 square metre condo in a building in Chiang Mai where I used to own a unit and it's the same today as it was in 2005, THB 25,000 per month, the sales prices remain broadly the same also at THB 6.5 mill.

Exactly, many places on earth investing in RE makes good sense, Thailand is not one of them.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Exactly, many places on earth investing in RE makes good sense, Thailand is not one of them.

I forgot to add that when I sold my condo I made about £55,000 on the exchange rate which sure beat the interest rate any banks were offering!

[JAZZDOG]

I live in a $ 9.5M baht upscale condo in Jomtien for $ 25K per month. My funds stay in place yielding 10-12% or $ 95K / month.  Meanwhile my landlord makes a whopping 3% after costs on an all cash investment likely to yield little or no appreciation on a year to year basis. If he is leveraged out on the condo he is totally upside down.

[JAZZDOG]

21 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I forgot to add that when I sold my condo I made about £55,000 on the exchange rate which sure beat the interest rate any banks were offering!

The Xchange deal was not foreseen unless you purposely timed the event. I made huge yields investing in Brazil when the Reis was trading 4:1 and CDB was 14%. I'd be insane to pull those funds to buy a condo anywhere much less Thailand.

[mixlis]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

What a bunch of nonsense, you deserve to be banned for posting false information!

 

When you bring money into the country to buy a condo. you need to specify the purpose of that money. When you eventually sell the condo tax must be paid on the sale and a blue receipt will be issued,  the banks recognise that as a tax receipt which in conjunction with your inbound transfer receipt will allow you to export the money overseas again - I personally have done that three times in 16 years.

 

Secondly, you don't specify the size of the unit or its location but there is a very buoyant used condo market in Thailand, especially in Bangkok - what and where you buy will be key to your success. Of the condo's I have previously owned here, each was sold within six months of going onto the market and each sale recovered my initial costs hence I lived for free for the period of ownership, one made a small profit in capital terms - you should not expect to buy and see large scale capital appreciation, unless you're very lucky and/or you hold it for a long time.

 

Buying off plan is always a risk but there is money to be made if you do it right and go with a large well-known developer etc., the secondary market is easier and more certain, especially if you just want somewhere of your own to live.

 

Condo management is worth looking at closely, the successful buildings and happiest tenants are the ones where the management is solid, it's a key factor.

 

 

 

 

 

Agree 10000%

[Kalaharigeorge]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

When you bring money into the country to buy a condo. you need to specify the purpose of that money. When you eventually sell the condo tax must be paid on the sale and a blue receipt will be issued,  the banks recognise that as a tax receipt which in conjunction with your inbound transfer receipt will allow you to export the money overseas again - I personally have done that three times in 16 years.

 

Secondly, you don't specify the size of the unit or its location but there is a very buoyant used condo market in Thailand, especially in Bangkok - what and where you buy will be key to your success. Of the condo's I have previously owned here, each was sold within six months of going onto the market and each sale recovered my initial costs hence I lived for free for the period of ownership, one made a small profit in capital terms - you should not expect to buy and see large scale capital appreciation, unless you're very lucky and/or you hold it for a long time.

 

Buying off plan is always a risk but there is money to be made if you do it right and go with a large well-known developer etc., the secondary market is easier and more certain, especially if you just want somewhere of your own to live.

 

Condo management is worth looking at closely, the successful buildings and happiest tenants are the ones where the management is solid, it's a key factor.

Completely agree.  I've purchased and sold in the Sukhumvit area for the last 10 years (14 condos) and always, always at least broken even i.e. lived rent free, with my own furniture, etc, etc. My comment factors-in Juristic fees. I've focussed on entry level, <BHT9m. For condos priced more than BHT12m there are less buyers and they're more selective and demanding. IMHO around BHT7M, older building that's been renovated is the sweet spot, particularly for non-Thais. I refer to Sukhumvit area, within 400m of a BTS.

 

We can't control exchange rate risk. But, yes, no problem expatriating the funds as long as the purchase was documented with funds from ex-Thailand.

 

I'll add one observation..... market prices are not readily available. If you work through an agent, that agent will charge the vendor but works for both parties. Don't not rely on the agent's advice on pricing. Independent research and a reputable real estate agent will assist.

 

I'd love to name and shame a few. There's young'ish lady real estate agent in particular that specialises in Soi 8 and Soi 10 Sukhumvit. Steer very very very clear of her. Bad news.

 

 

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kalaharigeorge]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

I live in a $ 9.5M baht upscale condo in Jomtien for $ 25K per month. My funds stay in place yielding 10-12% or $ 95K / month.  Meanwhile my landlord makes a whopping 3% after costs on an all cash investment likely to yield little or no appreciation on a year to year basis. If he is leveraged out on the condo he is totally upside down.

Good lord, where do you get 10-12%... I presume you're talking pa and income (rather than wealth fluctuations)? Please share!

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, Kalaharigeorge said:

Completely agree.  I've purchased and sold in the Sukhumvit area for the last 10 years (14 condos) and always, always at least broken even i.e. lived rent free, with my own furniture, etc, etc. My comment factors-in Juristic fees. I've focussed on entry level, <BHT9m. For condos priced more than BHT12m there are less buyers and they're more selective and demanding. IMHO around BHT7M, older building that's been renovated is the sweet spot, particularly for non-Thais. I refer to Sukhumvit area, within 400m of a BTS.

 

We can't control exchange rate risk. But, yes, no problem expatriating the funds as long as the purchase was documented with funds from ex-Thailand.

 

I'll add one observation..... market prices are not readily available. If you work through an agent, that agent will charge the vendor but works for both parties. Don't not rely on the agent's advice on pricing. Independent research and a reputable real estate agent will assist.

 

I'd love to name and shame a few. There's young'ish lady real estate agent in particular that specialises in Soi 8 and Soi 10 Sukhumvit. Steer very very very clear of her. Bad news.

 

 

 

My question is this. You state over 10 years you bought and sold 14 condos and broken even at the least. If you factor in closing costs, maintenance fees and all out of pocket expenses what yield were you making on your money invested? My point is if you don't make much profit on the sale just having a free place to live doesn't come close to the opportunities to invest elsewhere and just pay rent. I know I can pay rent and safely make at least three times what I would have investing an equal amount in my current totally liquid investments. Not to say there are not quality RE investments but they need to be appreciating >4-5% in a growing market.

[TimBKK]

7 hours ago, newnative said:

    Some good advice has been posted.  Certainly there are some advantages and disadvantages to both renting and buying.  I think some people are happy being renters with the flexibility to move and not have a lot invested in property.  For myself and my partner, we like owning and being able to make each condo our home that reflects our personal style with our own furniture and artwork.   We have rented at times out of necessity and hated it--we are owners at heart.

   We have bought and sold a number of condos in Pattaya, always at a profit.  We are in the process of buying a small Bangkok condo as a getaway place.  We bought off-plan at a good price from a very well-known Thai builder that does a good job of maintaining its buildings.  The condo is being built in an excellent location near the skytrain/subway.  Likely to at least maintain its value and if we decided to rent it at some point it should attract renters with the good location and building amenities.  It's important when buying to do your homework and take your time.

 

Which builder did you go with?

[JAZZDOG]

18 minutes ago, Kalaharigeorge said:

Good lord, where do you get 10-12%... I presume you're talking pa and income (rather than wealth fluctuations)? Please share!

Much of my income comes from buying lots and building then selling. Actually hard work but huge returns as long as you buy the dirt right. I have done the best in Costa Rica 2000-2010 and Brazil recently building resort rentals. While living in Brazil I waited for a window in the exchange rate and funded a CDB at Bradesco and Itau in jan/16 when the Xchange was 4.10:1US$. Although down to only 7% today they have averaged over 12% over the two years. The cambio is up slightly at 3.30 and if I got out today I would have yielded 23% per year. What is really attractive for me is I am totally liquid and have access to my funds anytime I want if a building opportunity comes along or if the cambio takes a drastic slide. Brazil has weathered quite an economic storm and I believe there are great opportunities down the road. 

[WebGuy]

21 hours ago, mstevens said:

Just a few cons off the top of my head:

 

- rents in Bangkok are often reasonable so there is no need to buy - in fact financially, buying might not be the best decision as many buildings deteriorate over time and are not that well maintained so your "asset"s value may in fact decrease.

- with Bangkok condo rents relatively low, you might be able to enjoy a better quality of building in a better location than if you bought (especially if you are older).

- if you rent you can move easily whereas if you buy a condo (and especially if you have a large amount of your capital tied up in a condo), moving might not be so easy.  And in Bangkok there are a zillion reasons why one day you might realise you want or need to move.

- selling a condo in Thailand is not always easy so while it's very easy to buy, it might be very difficult to sell unless you drop the price significantly.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I have no regrets for the 10+ years I rented when living in Bangkok, paying over 3 million baht for the privilege of living in other people's condos.  Some would say this is wasted money (and there is an argument that it was), but my viewpoint is that I was able to afford to live in some very nice buildings in central Bangkok in condos I would not have dreamed of being able to buy outright.  That made it very much worth while for me.

Interesting points. Thanks

[WebGuy]

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions and experiences.

I feel I need to expand the context of my question and try to specify it a bit.

I have been married in Thailand for 10years with a Thai citizen and we really would like to own a property.

It is not about money making but only to have our property.

It is not a lot of money but something between 1.3 to 1.7 million baht.

We are aware that we cannot buy a castle but most probably a shitty small place for a beginning.

As we live and earn, we would save some money and then sell the existing shitty condo and buy a better one so on, so on.

I would have it on my name as she already owns a house.

My specific question is if I am secure to own a condo there and if something really bad happens in Thailand I can sell the property and come back to Europe with that money and start a new life with my wife?

 

[Wang Lalker]

My specific question is if I am secure to own a condo there and if something really bad happens in Thailand I can sell the property and come back to Europe with that money and start a new life with my wif

depends.. if your condo is hit by a meteor you probably wont be able to do that

if on the other hand it is just hit by a falling chinese space station you would then have a better chance

Edited April 16, 2018 by Wang Lalker

[HampiK]

6 hours ago, WebGuy said:

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions and experiences.

I feel I need to expand the context of my question and try to specify it a bit.

I have been married in Thailand for 10years with a Thai citizen and we really would like to own a property.

It is not about money making but only to have our property.

It is not a lot of money but something between 1.3 to 1.7 million baht.

We are aware that we cannot buy a castle but most probably a shitty small place for a beginning.

As we live and earn, we would save some money and then sell the existing shitty condo and buy a better one so on, so on.

I would have it on my name as she already owns a house.

My specific question is if I am secure to own a condo there and if something really bad happens in Thailand I can sell the property and come back to Europe with that money and start a new life with my wife?

 

I would think about your Idea again. I am always pro condo for living in it. For Investment purpose, I think you need a bit of money left in the case one of your projects going the wrong way and you lose.

Because to sell a condo quickly without a lost is not easy in Thailand. And if you own the condo less than a few years you also have to pay an extra tax. 

Most people who do like your proposal buy an older condo, renovate that one and then sell this with profit. But for doing this successful you need to know location what kind of condo is best to sell again and maybe some luck.

It is possible to do, but from your post it sounds like you have limited funds and with that I would better safe first some more money and then buy the condo you want to stay instead of trying to make money with condo "flipping"

[KittenKong]

It is not a lot of money but something between 1.3 to 1.7 million baht.

We are aware that we cannot buy a castle but most probably a shitty small place for a beginning.
As we live and earn, we would save some money and then sell the existing shitty condo and buy a better one so on, so on.

That sort of money in Bangkok will indeed get you something fairly shitty. Even in Pattaya it would not buy you anything I would describe as nice. You would have to double it, at least. Edited April 17, 2018 by KittenKong

[KittenKong]

I've purchased and sold in the Sukhumvit area for the last 10 years (14 condos) and always, always at least broken even i.e. lived rent free, with my own furniture, etc, etc. My comment factors-in Juristic fees.

Given the relatively high level of transfer taxes and sales fees in Thailand, and the apparent stagnation of prices, it is a bit of a mystery to me how anyone can break even on Thai property let alone make a profit. Maybe Bangkok really is different.

I dont personally know anyone at all in Pattaya who actually made a clear profit on a condo sale, but I know many who lost a little or a lot, or who simply have not been able to sell at all even after several months or years. Maybe I just know a lot of unlucky or stupid people.

I compare with property I owned in the EU, all of which increased systematically in value over time and all of which increased in value at least 4-fold over 20 years.

My own condo here is surely not now worth what I paid for it, due to general building degradation caused by bad management, and massive oversupply of new buildings. However I'm not complaining because I do like my condo and have not seen another one that I would like to live in at anything less than double the cost.

[KittenKong]

Most people who do like your proposal buy an older condo, renovate that one and then sell this with profit. But for doing this successful you need to know location what kind of condo is best to sell again and maybe some luck.

Yes. I think that renovating old condos is about the only way that you can turn any sort of profit on them here. But who in his right mind would want the hassle of dealing with contractors and suppliers and suchlike here? Not me, not at any price. Nor do I want to have to deal with real estate people or building managements here. It's all massively tedious and unpleasant.

There are far easier and more enjoyable ways of earning money, I think.