Returning to UK temporarily

[Mister Fixit]

I hope this is the correct forum but please move if necessary, mods.  

 

I am due to go back to the UK with my wife (Thai) for almost 4 weeks in July for my mother's 100th birthday and see the rest of my family.  

 

However, something seems to have cropped up with  my mother's finances and she has written to me (no mean feat because her hands are very shaky so it's significant she would write) to say she has no money.  I called her to ask why this could be as another family member has Power of Attorney for her finances, but whilst she refused to say anything specific, it is obvious this person has been taking advantage of her for some time.  I have seen a few small instances of this in the past and long suspected it was more than petty but it looks as though it has become serious.   I know there have been financial difficulties with this person for some years in the past.

 

It looks as though I shall have to stay for longer than anticipated to try to sort this business out, because it could well become a criminal matter.   My difficulty is that I would have stayed with this family member normally, but after a breakdown of the relationship four years ago I decided it was too fraught and anyway, if I have to involve the police and social services in this matter, I could hardly stay there!  We do get on well enough sort-of, but it's just better to keep my distance for my mother's sake, mainly but my own sanity too. 

 

When I do go over, I use a cheap but good B&B close to my mother and I can stay there long term if necessary at a reduced rent.  I am over 65 and receive a UK state pension + a couple of small private pensions.  This means that I could likely be eligible for Council Tax and housing benefits.

 

However, my concern is that I might not fulfil the UK Statutory Residence test to get these benefits.  If I can't it is unlikely that I could afford to stay for long.  I have looked but can't quite decide if I am eligible.  I think you need to have been out of the UK for 15 years before losing entitlements but am not 100% sure.  

 

I am a UK citizen so have the right to reside, but I left the UK in November 2004, stayed here until Nov 2006 then went back for 6 months returning in May 2007.  I have been here ever since, returning to the UK for between 2 and 4 weeks  annually apart from 2009 and 2012.  I have been on a retirement visa for the last 7 years.

 

However, if I stay longer, I would probably need to have my wife stay with me as well because she can help do things for my mother.  Her visa will be OK for 6 months, but then she'll have to return alone at the end of that if things take as long as I suspect they will. 

 

When she is over here with me will I be able to claim for her as well when she is with me?

 

Would my date of leaving the UK date from May 2007 for the purposes of calculating when I finally left the UK?  

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of whether I would be able to claim these benefits and also have access to the NHS if necessary?  I am still enrolled on my previous GPs practice, but that is in a place 230 miles from my mother's place of residence.  I know I can transfer practices if I need to.  

 

Any practical help and suggestions would be much appreciated.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Mister Fixit

[JHolmesJr]

Congrats on your mum turning 100...that's no mean feat either!

[altcar bob]

There is no set time on residency,just what you tell them.  Sorry with your plight,....just tell them anything  nothing set down in print about time factors

[Mister Fixit]

This seems to say that I would be subject to the HRT as I have been three months or more out of the UK

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/british-and-irish-citizens-claiming-benefits/

 

 

[steve187]

as i see it if as you will stay at a b&b, there would be no council tax to pay, as for housing benefit would that apply for you staying in a b&b, you would be entitled to have your state pension increased so claim for that as soon as you arrive and will last as long as you stay. you could possible apply for pension credits and maybe get on the council housing lists. but i doubt you would not be able to claim for your wife. A cheaper way of staying longer term would be to look for accommodation as  a lodger

if i was you i would make it clear you have returned full time to the UK, if at a later date you return to Thailand well that's the way thing go.

 

edit others will come along and give you differing advice no doubt

Edited April 28, 2018 by steve187

[altcar bob]

28 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

This seems to say that I would be subject to the HRT as I have been three months or more out of the UK

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/british-and-irish-citizens-claiming-benefits/

 

 

Your mother lives there.  Yes become a lodger  some god rates 80 a week  free electric too

[Swimman]

Your wife will not be able to access/receive any State-funded benefits. 

[Mister Fixit]

21 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Your wife will not be able to access/receive any State-funded benefits. 

Yes I realise that.  I had thought perhaps I could claim something towards the rent allowance on the basis of being married, but I realise I was wrong.

 

I would be living there and would get the housing benefit anyway, so there would be no point in even trying to ask.

[Baerboxer]

Sorry to hear about such issues. 

 

Try and be pragmatic. Can I suggest you first discuss the issue with the person who has power of attorney. At 100 your mum may misunderstand the financial situation. I had that experience with my mum who just couldn't understand how the bank managed her current account, transferring money automatically to a higher interest savings accounts etc. Although she received regular statements she just couldn't grasp them so accused all and sundry of pilfering her accounts. Even though no one had PoA or control of the accounts. She lost a cheque book, told the bank it had been stolen, found it and then issued cheques from it to pay utilities. All were thankfully understanding and patient. Upshot was the courts appointed an administrator for her.

 

Banks are very very cautious about giving any information to third parties, which you probably know. They will deal with the person with PoA but unlikely to tell you anything.

 

If you believe that money has been embezzled and used inappropriately or that the person with PoA is abusing the trust they've been given then it's a matter for the police. Go to the police force responsible for the area where your mum lives. Once the police start snooping around and speaking with the person with PoA you may find he/she opens up.

 

Hope all works out well.

[Mister Fixit]

To answer the point about lodging or whatever, I should say that the B&B charges £25 a night for one, or £30 for a couple.  If you stay 7 nights or more, it is £140.

 

When I was ovr alone last year there was a chap living there permanently and paying something like £350 a month for a bedroom, small sitting room and use of the communal kitchen.  Everyone has a shelf in the both the  fridge and freezer and a couple of shelves in a cupboard so you can do your own thing.  

 

He was getting housing benefit when living there and  the landlady knows al about it.  I have spoken to her and she is prepared to let me stay on a longer term basis if or when I need to.

 

It's only about a mile from my mother so I could walk it if need be and it's close to my childhood home so I know the area well.  

 

I am just concerned that if things go legal (and I suspect they will) that if I am claiming benefits, some sh~tbag lawyer won't try to drop me in it with the authorities - and my experience of lawyers is that they will stoop to anything.

 

 

 

[wombat]

move in with your mum

[dickjones2018]

retirement home no option ? they also cost handfuls of money or not in the UK?

[Mister Fixit]

4 minutes ago, wombat said:

move in with your mum

 

Unfortunately, I can't do that.  She lives in an old folks council bungalow which is OK for her, but it is so small and stuffed with her knick-knacks that there's no room to swing a cat.  

 

There is a tiny kitchen and bathroom, a small bedroom with just enough room for a single bed and a small and cluttered living room.

 

UK members will recognise the type of house from the photo.  

 

 

[Mister Fixit]

19 minutes ago, dickjones2018 said:

retirement home no option ? they also cost handfuls of money or not in the UK?

 

Nope, no chance.  For a start she refuses point blank and is perfectly able to look after herself.  

 

Also social services in the UK won;t put anypone in a home because it costs so much.  If they are not a danger to themselves or others, they will be left at home because it's cheaper for the council

[ubonjoe]

A abusive inflammatory post and a reply to it have been removed.

[Mister Fixit]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Sorry to hear about such issues. 

 

Try and be pragmatic. Can I suggest you first discuss the issue with the person who has power of attorney. At 100 your mum may misunderstand the financial situation.

<snip>

If you believe that money has been embezzled and used inappropriately or that the person with PoA is abusing the trust they've been given then it's a matter for the police. Go to the police force responsible for the area where your mum lives. Once the police start snooping around and speaking with the person with PoA you may find he/she opens up.

 

Hope all works out well.

Thanks for your positive response.

 

It is impossible to discuss the situation with the PoA holder.  There are never replies to emails or phone calls which speaks volumes to me.

 

My mother may be almost 100 but mentally she is as sharp as a tack.  She is slow, of course, and it does take her time to hold a conversation.  However, she is well on the ball and well aware of her situation.  Physically, she is quite frail and although she can get around her small bungalow she will only go to the supermarket on a Sunday with the PoA holder (who does their own shopping and puts it at the front of the trolley where it can't be easily seen and lets her pay for theirs and hers before hiding it in the back of the car where she doesn't see it).

 

The only reason she decided on the PoA was because her bank is about 3 miles away and difficult for her to get to.  Also she is too old to understand internet banking but the clincher is that her hands shake so much that her signature is illegible.  The bank once refused a cheque and had a go about it so that was when she decided to let someone else do it.  

 

Now, from my conversation yesterday, she is having second thoughts and says she is dong things herself again.

 

I have been told that the police aren't too interested in these matters and will only pass things to social services to deal with.  I will be phoning their safeguarding team on Monday and see what they say.  If they feel there has been theft, they will usually involve the police so I have now been told.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Mister Fixit

[cyberfarang]

6 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

Thanks for your positive response.

 

It is impossible to discuss the situation with the PoA holder.  There are never replies to emails or phone calls which speaks volumes to me.

 

My mother may be almost 100 but mentally she is as sharp as a tack.  She is slow, of course, and it does take her time to hold a conversation.  However, she is well on the ball and well aware of her situation.  Physically, she is quite frail and although she can get around her small bungalow she will only go to the supermarket on a Sunday with the PoA holder (who does their own shopping and puts it at the front of the trolley where it can't be easily seen and lets her pay for theirs and hers before hiding it in the back of the car where she doesn't see it).

 

The only reason she decided on the PoA was because her bank is about 3 miles away and difficult for her to get to.  Also she is too old to understand internet banking but the clincher is that her hands shake so much that her signature is illegible.  The bank once refused a cheque and had a go about it so that was when she decided to let someone else do it.  

 

Now, from my conversation yesterday, she is having second thoughts and says she is dong things herself again.

 

I have been told that the police aren't too interested in these matters and will only pass things to social services to deal with.  I will be phoning their safeguarding team on Monday and see what they say.  If they feel there has been theft, they will usually involve the police so I have now been told.

 

 

 

 

I am in a similar situation as you, but probably worse I think.

 

My mother is 91, now stone deaf, not possible to have a phone conversation with her. Have not been back to Britain for 15 years. She lives in a large house alone, after my dad died in 2008. Have written but do not receive replies. Have 1 brother. Some time ago a cousin informed me that my mother has placed all her financial affairs into the hands of my brother, it is also suspected that my brother has changed my mother`s house into his named, valued at almost £400000. About 5 years ago my brother cut me off from his Skype, facebook, emails and will not answer my phone calls. This has set alarm bells off in my head, all is not right.

 

I too receive a company pension and a State pension, in my 60s now. A cousin told me that my brother has sealed off most rooms in my mother`s house, she only has access to two rooms and not possible for me to stay there long term because she receives government benefits and not allowed to have a tenant. Also there would not be enough room for me to stay there, so like you it would have to be some kind of bed and breakfast accommodation. But because I`m on a limited budget, I simply cannot afford to stay in the UK for a long term, even just visiting would mean using funds I`ve no hope of retrieving back. 

 

All my cousins live very long distances from my mother, and doubt any of them would be willing to let me stay with them long term. All I can think of is, if anything happens to my mother is to contest the will.

 

It`s a very complex and difficult situation and doubt there are any easy solutions to the problem.

Edited April 28, 2018 by cyberfarang

[1FinickyOne]

pardon if off subject, but you may want to inquire first where the $ has gone... sometimes there are legit expenses that need to be paid and deplete finances.... best of luck to you. 

[OJAS]

On 4/28/2018 at 11:35 AM, Mister Fixit said:

I am over 65 and receive a UK state pension

Don't forget that you can get this paid at the current increased rate while you are in the UK. If it has been frozen here for several years the increase could amount to a tidy sum.

[altcar bob]

On 4/29/2018 at 12:05 AM, cyberfarang said:

I am in a similar situation as you, but probably worse I think.

 

My mother is 91, now stone deaf, not possible to have a phone conversation with her. Have not been back to Britain for 15 years. She lives in a large house alone, after my dad died in 2008. Have written but do not receive replies. Have 1 brother. Some time ago a cousin informed me that my mother has placed all her financial affairs into the hands of my brother, it is also suspected that my brother has changed my mother`s house into his named, valued at almost £400000. About 5 years ago my brother cut me off from his Skype, facebook, emails and will not answer my phone calls. This has set alarm bells off in my head, all is not right.

 

I too receive a company pension and a State pension, in my 60s now. A cousin told me that my brother has sealed off most rooms in my mother`s house, she only has access to two rooms and not possible for me to stay there long term because she receives government benefits and not allowed to have a tenant. Also there would not be enough room for me to stay there, so like you it would have to be some kind of bed and breakfast accommodation. But because I`m on a limited budget, I simply cannot afford to stay in the UK for a long term, even just visiting would mean using funds I`ve no hope of retrieving back. 

 

All my cousins live very long distances from my mother, and doubt any of them would be willing to let me stay with them long term. All I can think of is, if anything happens to my mother is to contest the will.

 

It`s a very complex and difficult situation and doubt there are any easy solutions to the problem.

Unfortunate, but he will rely on looking after your mum as lions share of estate,not the fact he was bleeding her dry.  Suggest to him if you do not get your dues it will end up being very costly.  A lawyer on no win,no fee could be way to go

[Mister Fixit]

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

Don't forget that you can get this paid at the current increased rate while you are in the UK. If it has been frozen here for several years the increase could amount to a tidy sum.

 

I don't think it works like that.  I do advise the pension people when I am staying in the UK but you only get the current rate of pension when you are actually, physically, in the UK.  It isn't backdated for the time you are non-resident

 

Last time I did that, I think they gave me a whole £1.83 or so a week for the 2 weeks I was resident, IIRC.  :-)

[altcar bob]

Buy ticket   from 'net ,cheapest from Barcelona ,France,Eurostar ,Belgium  anywhere,one way,some are cheap  £20 or so,print it off,if proof needed thats it,tell them nothing for return

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

It isn't backdated for the time you are non-resident

I never said that it was.

[Jaggg88]

You don't need to register with the local doctor's surgery just tell them you are temporarily staying in the area and they will sort you out. Your mother will qualify for some free legal advice. These people will help and they will check on your Mother when you are not there https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/

 

[Mister Fixit]

18 hours ago, OJAS said:

I never said that it was.

Looks like you actually did.  

Then why did you say this - 'If it has been frozen here for several years the increase could amount to a tidy sum.'

More than a little confusing, no?  Perhaps rewrite what you wanted to say so it's less so?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

11 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

You don't need to register with the local doctor's surgery just tell them you are temporarily staying in the area and they will sort you out. Your mother will qualify for some free legal advice. These people will help and they will check on your Mother when you are not there https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/

 

 

Many thanks for the info. Most helpful

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

Looks like you actually did.  

Then why did you say this - 'If it has been frozen here for several years the increase could amount to a tidy sum.'

More than a little confusing, no?  Perhaps rewrite what you wanted to say so it's less so?

It stands to reason that the increase which you would have received during your time in the UK might well have amounted to a tidy sum had your pension been frozen in LOS for a number of years.

 

Or have I, in your eyes,  committed a heinous crime on account of my failure to state the blinding obvious by omitting to include the words "during your time in the UK"?

 

Based on your comment, I have come to the conclusion that you would make an excellent grammar policeman!

[Mister Fixit]

On 02/05/2018 at 3:13 PM, OJAS said:

It stands to reason that the increase which you would have received during your time in the UK might well have amounted to a tidy sum had your pension been frozen in LOS for a number of years.

 

Or have I, in your eyes,  committed a heinous crime on account of my failure to state the blinding obvious by omitting to include the words "during your time in the UK"?

 

Based on your comment, I have come to the conclusion that you would make an excellent grammar policeman!

 

Actually , the way you wrote it, it is not 'blindingly obvious' at all.  Forgive me if my Mensa-level IQ can't make sense of your poorly written post.

 

As to Grammar Policeman, actually I am and proud of it.  Now a  retired English teacher who was formerly an IT project manager who had to be able to write comprehensible English ...  

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post and replies to it have been removed.

[wgdanson]

On 4/30/2018 at 3:07 PM, OJAS said:

Don't forget that you can get this paid at the current increased rate while you are in the UK. If it has been frozen here for several years the increase could amount to a tidy sum.

It has gone up about 3 quid a week each year for past 4 years. That's 600 quid.............not exactly a 'tidy sum' in my opinion. Might get you a B&B for a month.............Sorry mis-read it, you can only get increased rate for the time you are in UK, let's say a month, so 4 weeks at 12 quid increase over 4 years....forget the B&B.

Edited May 10, 2018 by wgdanson