Retirement Visa for Americans

[bkk6060]

14 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

I agree but he needs an address. Doubt that can be in US.

 

I think you need to be in country 30 days prior as well but uncertain.

You can get it while on a 30 day Visa exempt so no 30 day rule unless that has changed.

Address??  

You are paying for a service most will guarantee results so figure it out from there....

Edited May 11, 2018 by bkk6060

[notamember]

On 5/11/2018 at 10:54 AM, ubonjoe said:

1. You have to have the 800k baht in a Thai bank to for 60 days to apply for a one extension of stay at a immigration office.

2. You would first have to a apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) at a immigration office before applying for the one year extension of stay.  The 800k baht only has to be in the bank on the date you apply.

3. The fee for an agent will be from 20k baht to as much as 40k baht dependent upon the agent or where you are located here. You don't need an agent you can do it yourself for a lot less money.

Just for the record , my friend met with a well known 'legal' company with the old name of Thailand as a prefix to that. They advertise all over on the interwebs and on Google, They wanted 50,000 baht and provided the 800,000 baht deposit, get a bank letter type money in-out in a few minutes service then do the conversion from TV to O and add 12 months retirement visa. They said it would be done in 30 days. So much for the often mooted premise by many members on these forums  that its illegal. When a famous multi location lawyer  does it the same way as a back street agent at twice the price!

ps they offered a further service of doing his 90 day reports for another 10,000 baht

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, notamember said:

Just for the record , my friend met with a well known 'legal' company with the old name of Thailand as a prefix to that. They advertise all over on the interwebs and on Google, They wanted 50,000 baht and provided the 800,000 baht deposit, get a bank letter type money in-out in a few minutes service then do the conversion from TV to O and add 12 months retirement visa. They said it would be done in 30 days. So much for the often mooted premise by many members on these forums  that its illegal. When a famous multi location lawyer  does it the same way as a back street agent at twice the price!

ps they offered a further service of doing his 90 day reports for another 10,000 baht

It would appear that, like most agents, they "fake" the financials for the applicant, and have a connection at immigration who is paid-off, with part of the application-money, to rubber-stamp the conversion plus an early-applied extension on money that does not have documentation of seasoning.  

 

The reason for requiring the money be "in the bank" for 60-days (for a first retirement-extension, 90-days thereafter) is to prevent exactly what this agent is providing - short-term loaned-money.  The purpose of requiring the money, is to ensure the applicant has the means to support themselves in Thailand.

 

The "correct" way is to show you have 800K (or 65K/mo income) today, which get's your inital 90-day Non-O stamp.  Then, in the last 30 to 45 days, one can apply for the 1-year extension, with the 800K being shown as in the account ("seasoned") for 60-days.

 

Based on the rates quoted, you are correct that this unnamed firm seems to be charging twice the "going rate" for paying off immigration with an agent-laundered bribe, to provide an extension, for which the applicant has not provided the required financial-proof.

 

Paying off officials, including via 3rd parties, to skip requirements for an extension, is illegal.  The only advantage of the 3rd party, is one could feign ignorance (and the immigration-official involved doesn't have to worry about a stranger-foreigner wearing a wire, and putting the whole thing up on YouTube).  This type of corruption is commonplace here, and the payment-chain must go high-up in rank, or there would be a "crackdown."  But one should not confuse "legal" with the "commonplace."

[notamember]

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

It would appear that, like most agents, they "fake" the financials for the applicant, and have a connection at immigration who is paid-off, with part of the application-money, to rubber-stamp the conversion plus an early-applied extension on money that does not have documentation of seasoning.  

 

The reason for requiring the money be "in the bank" for 60-days (for a first retirement-extension, 90-days thereafter) is to prevent exactly what this agent is providing - short-term loaned-money.  The purpose of requiring the money, is to ensure the applicant has the means to support themselves in Thailand.

 

The "correct" way is to show you have 800K (or 65K/mo income) today, which get's your inital 90-day Non-O stamp.  Then, in the last 30 to 45 days, one can apply for the 1-year extension, with the 800K being shown as in the account ("seasoned") for 60-days.

 

Based on the rates quoted, you are correct that this unnamed firm seems to be charging twice the "going rate" for paying off immigration with an agent-laundered bribe, to provide an extension, for which the applicant has not provided the required financial-proof.

 

Paying off officials, including via 3rd parties, to skip requirements for an extension, is illegal.  The only advantage of the 3rd party, is one could feign ignorance (and the immigration-official involved doesn't have to worry about a stranger-foreigner wearing a wire, and putting the whole thing up on YouTube).  This type of corruption is commonplace here, and the payment-chain must go high-up in rank, or there would be a "crackdown."  But one should not confuse "legal" with the "commonplace."

i was thinking of you when i made this post so i expected you would 'bite' and preach the usual sermon

My point was that if a revered legal firm with seven offices does it, surely it rubber stamps the whole thing as being OK with the authorities ?

If not , even by them offering such a service surely it makes it appear to be OK?

If it was as illegal as you so vehemently claim on every occasion it arises on this forum then why would a very significant and very visible law firm do it?

Aside from the financial rewards why risk it if it was so fraught with danger for the firm and the clients?

 

 

[JackThompson]

On 6/9/2018 at 7:49 AM, notamember said:

i was thinking of you when i made this post so i expected you would 'bite' and preach the usual sermon

My point was that if a revered legal firm with seven offices does it, surely it rubber stamps the whole thing as being OK with the authorities ?

If not , even by them offering such a service surely it makes it appear to be OK?

If it was as illegal as you so vehemently claim on every occasion it arises on this forum then why would a very significant and very visible law firm do it?

Aside from the financial rewards why risk it if it was so fraught with danger for the firm and the clients?

 

 

I assume this can be openly advertised because the payouts go far up the chain - high enough that there is no one "above" to investigate the fraud/bribery.  It just shows how sick the immigration-system is, at present, and the volume of agent-applications being submitted by destitute-foreigners, many of whom the Thai taxpayers will end up taking the hit for via the health-system (since agent-money can't be spent to pay medical bills).

 

The firm likely has minimal risk.  If anything "goes sideways" with this arrangement, the Thais will walk away with a slap on the wrist (at worst), and the farangs will be the ones who get booted, banned, etc.  The "firm" doesn't care about them, since it has already taken their money.

 

As to the assertion this is legal, are you suggesting it is *not* illegal to pay off immigration to ignore the policies that everyone who does things the legit-route is forced to follow?  Can you think of another reason. other than bribery, that immigration ignoring the seasoning rules only when an agent submits an application?   Note that we do not have reports of cases (or not many) where some "slack" might be valid - for example, if the applicant is just a couple days short of the days, or spent the money for hospital-bills, etc).  That *NEVER* seems to happen, but agent-applications somehow get through.  Why is that, if not illegal-bribing at work?

 

From another angle, what better way to find out who cannot afford the requirements to be here, and get them all on a list for a later round-up?   I would bet it's only corruption, though - no "master plan" which would require thinking beyond, "How can I get more corrupt-money, which I did not earn, in my pocket."

[notamember]

On 6/10/2018 at 8:45 AM, JackThompson said:

I assume this can be openly advertised because the payouts go far up the chain - high enough that there is no one "above" to investigate the fraud/bribery.  It just shows how sick the immigration-system is, at present, and the volume of agent-applications being submitted by destitute-foreigners, many of whom the Thai taxpayers will end up taking the hit for via the health-system (since agent-money can't be spent to pay medical bills).

 

The firm likely has minimal risk.  If anything "goes sideways" with this arrangement, the Thais will walk away with a slap on the wrist (at worst), and the farangs will be the ones who get booted, banned, etc.  The "firm" doesn't care about them, since it has already taken their money.

 

As to the assertion this is legal, are you suggesting it is *not* illegal to pay off immigration to ignore the policies that everyone who does things the legit-route is forced to follow?  Can you think of another reason. other than bribery, that immigration ignoring the seasoning rules only when an agent submits an application?   Note that we do not have reports of cases (or not many) where some "slack" might be valid - for example, if the applicant is just a couple days short of the days, or spent the money for hospital-bills, etc).  That *NEVER* seems to happen, but agent-applications somehow get through.  Why is that, if not illegal-bribing at work?

 

From another angle, what better way to find out who cannot afford the requirements to be here, and get them all on a list for a later round-up?   I would bet it's only corruption, though - no "master plan" which would require thinking beyond, "How can I get more corrupt-money, which I did not earn, in my pocket."

i knew you could not resist responding Jack

In the years since 2000 when i first came here,  i personally have known this process to be going on, but i have never heard of a single applicant being rounded up for doing it, despite your wishful thinking

 

How satisfying it must be for you to look down from your ivory tower and see people without the 800k running around to make ends meet and try to stay here (maybe with their wives and families) when they have adequate income but not enough for a letter or a lump sum to show at visa (sorry extension renewal) time.

Must make you feel so superior to be a have rather than a have not

Frankly Jack your holier than thou attitude to those who use agents disgusts me

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

On 5/11/2018 at 1:53 AM, buick said:

i think i listed options.  many people get their non imm O's using the methods i described above.  i've yet to hear a report of someone having a problem on the income letter.  i use the money in the bank method myself.

 

 

I think he outlined the process if one were to do it from Thailand instead of from the USA quite well.  Me, I probably will do it that way also.  It will depend on how things shake out in the next year or two here in the USA.  There are some benefits to getting things done first in the USA, and they come with their own issues that are challenging for some people.  The issue about the Income letter is moot and an unfortunate distraction to the general process.  One always has the option of cash in account or income letter and should always do either above the board.  I will be doing the income letter because I prefer to keep my money invested in the USA, and if I had > 10,000 USD aggregate in foreign accounts I would have to report that.  I prefer to keep my involvement with US Government agencies to a minimum.  I am an engineer in the defense aerospace industry with security clearances so I have always kept my nose clean and my records are reviewed constantly and probably more frequently than I am aware of, but so be it. No criminal or financial or any other sorts of issues of any sort, but I won't miss Government US paperwork.   As I coast into retirement, I will NOT miss filling out that massive pain in the ass SF-86 security form!  The recent one made me report stuff for the last 10 years!  That was quite challenging as I had been contracting all over the USA, had worked in 8 states during that time, had stayed in more short term hotels, furnished rentals, etc, then I could almost remember, had multiple employer addresses that were separate from the actual physical working address since my agencies were not co-located with my work, etc.  Not toss in about 8 or so trips to Thailand during that time, a few trips to Canada to help my buddy set up his retirement home, and later visit, etc.  And of course this was across two passports as one had been replaced due to being damaged, so  kind of hard to reconstruct the actual trip dates and read the washed out visa stamps!

[Evilbaz]

Plenty of accounts here of people forced to continually use agents because another office used than their local or it's obvious the "funds" were not seasoned correctly.

Up2U!

[JackThompson]

On 6/11/2018 at 9:09 AM, notamember said:

i knew you could not resist responding Jack

Glad to be of service.

Quote

In the years since 2000 when i first came here,  i personally have known this process to be going on, but i have never heard of a single applicant being rounded up for doing it, despite your wishful thinking 

Are you saying you believe it is legal to bribe immigration officers to obtain special-treatment - or are you merely pointing out that this is an ongoing problem, for which there has not yet been a crackdown?  I am not predicting when this practice will end - I simply do not want to participate in criminal activity, or encourage others to do so.

 

Quote

How satisfying it must be for you to look down from your ivory tower and see people without the 800k running around to make ends meet and try to stay here (maybe with their wives and families) when they have adequate income but not enough for a letter or a lump sum to show at visa (sorry extension renewal) time.

Must make you feel so superior to be a have rather than a have not

Frankly Jack your holier than thou attitude to those who use agents disgusts me

I think the limits are too high.  I think 40K / mo or 400K/yr (current, for those with Thai family here) should also be sufficient for retirees.  Throw in "stabilize and repatriate" insurance (not the system being pushed for the 5/10 Yr retirement), and those numbers could be even lower, without risk of negative-effects to Thais and their medical system.

 

It is the anti-farang brigade who is pushing the other direction - for higher limits and making it harder for farangs to stay in Thailand in general.   I think this is counterproductive, since our spending foreign-sourced incomes (even smaller ones) improves Thai business.  The fact the anti-farang clique within immigration (and some other govt-functions) are hypocrites, willing to put aside their anti-farang attitudes for bribes, should be what disgusts you, as it does me. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post has been removed.