Car Seats And Seat Belts

[Valjean]

The raising children in Thailand did bring up one very sore point for me: car seats and seat belts

I have a situation where my partner’s two year old has never been put in a car seat. There is the mom who I think would support me in trying, and the “mother in law” who I’m sure isn’t going to understand this at all. Plus all the other children and situations he’s in with other people and cars. Has anyone experience in making the case and getting a Thai family to change on this? I’m so flexible about doing things the Thai way but this one thing (and helmets for kids on motorcycles – am having some luck there) really worries and upsets me.

Does anyone know of research on this? Not sure if facts and figures will help but it might...

thanks

[londonthai]

no car seat with a belt on - no ride.

your car, your baby, your rules

[Bredbury Blue]

Take them for a day out - to an hospital outpatients and let them 'enjoy' seeing all the other people who didn't wear seatbelts (and got injured).

[esprit]

I agree no seat no ride. Back in 1th 70's it was not a requirement in the UK for child seats so my daughter who is now 31 did not need one. However my now Thai wife would never dream of taking our son out anywhere without him being in his seat, albeit at home here or in the UK.

She agrees it is a case of public awareness relating to children's safety, and eventually education will help but she also pointed out one big problem here in Thailand is the cost. Many, many families can not afford the cost of a reputable car seat.

Many here are still imported such as Britax etc so hence cost several thousand Baht in some cases (even though they are probably made in China in the 1st place). As a consequence even if the safety benefits were appreciated it is outwith the budget of 50% of the families most probably.

As for your actual question I too have never found any research specific to Thailand on this matter.

regards,

Dave

[Shola]

Come on, were talking about a country that puts newborns and up on motorcycles sandwiched between each parent . A way to go with law changes yet before we see seat belt restrictions for kids in cars.

[chanchao]

Force it. You're Farang, you're expected to be weird. Use this to your advantage.

You raised a good point. It still amazes me to see alledgedly rich high class people in Mercs & Beemers with 1-2-3 year old kids roaming freely around the car.

One thing you could try is find some crash-test video (Youtube, etc) of what happens when a kid is not in a car seat and the car has an accident. As a parent, it's completely impossible NOT to be shocked by that, even when it's crash test dummies but you just can't help thinking that could be your 2 year old getting its neck snapped or smashed through the windshield. I found some video of that type on the Maxi Cosi (a safety seat brand) website. I will look for some more.

Also you could present this as a 'convenience' thing. Driving a car with a 2 year old all over the place is hugely tiring and distracting. Having him/her easily snap into place in that car seat makes a world of difference. Also children may actually like it, being higher up so they get a really good view. I really noticed this when my 1 year old graduated from a 'baby' car seat (rear facing, no view) to a toddler seat with the best view in the house.

Finally: There is no such thing as spending too much money on a car seat. We managed to buy one of the best / most expensive ones out there during one of Central's sale-periods and got a really good deal. (spent 10,000 baht). And it's SO worth it, also in terms of how easily and securely it installs, how easy it is to strap the kid in and fasten things.. It's the Rolls Royce of car seats. We talked to the Thailand distributor first, when they mentioned that they would send TWO of their new model to be sold in Chiang Mai at the only Central dept store there. That really hits it home how backward people generally are about safety... Like, okay, that's ONE for us (not rich, not high-so) and then one more for 500,000 other potential buyers in Chiang Mai. (and most of the the North)..

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Bredbury Blue]

Seat belts, like drink driving and other very important safety matters, are basically up to the government to educate the masses but here, for whatever reason, there seems to be very little awareness or concern.

Anybody of a certain age from Britain will no doubt always remember Jimmy Saville's seat-belt short tv advert campaign of 'clunk-click every trip' - i will always remember the very simple image of a hammer smashing in to a peach, and the advie that most accidents tend to happen within minutes of home (i.e. put it on even if you're driving 100 metres to the corner shop. I can not drive the car if i don't put my belt on, it just feels alien not to 'clunk-click'.

Somewhere, maybe of these pages, i read very recently something along the lines that a headon car crash at 40km makes the velocity of a held baby impossible to hold - pretty sobering.

It all comes down to ejukashun!

[think_too_mut]

Finally: There is no such thing as spending too much money on a car seat. We managed to buy one of the best / most expensive ones out there during one of Central's sale-periods and got a really good deal. (spent 10,000 baht). And it's SO worth it, also in terms of how easily and securely it installs, how easy it is to strap the kid in and fasten things.. It's the Rolls Royce of car seats.

In Asia, the Rolls Royce are Japanese Combi and Aprica brand seats.

http://www.combibaby.com/goods/collection/...y/fr_index.html

(I could not navigate through English version of the site, could be, it does not have all the features as JP one.

At the Emporium there were 30,000-40,000B (price identical as in Tokyo.) items. The site link shows them in the range 20-25,000B.

Anybody mentioned, taxis never have baby seat.

In Sydney, if you called a taxi without mentioning there is a baby passenger, drivers are trained to refuse to take you unless the car happened to be equipped with child seat.

You will have to call again and tell that you have a baby with you and a vehicle with baby seat is dispatched.

[sibeymai]

Absolutely agree with the "no seal belt - no ride" approach. It works.

You could try explaining what happens when someone goes through the windscreen of a car...I believe the medical term is "degloved", which basically means they get their skin peeled off. It's terribly painful and usually results in a slow excruciating death.

Alternatively, drive like a complete madman and they'll either refuse to travel with you....or they'll belt up every time. Either way, problem solved.

[Valjean]

Thanks all. I feel like I’m in a 12 Step program. “Hi, my name is Valjean and I let people, adults and even children, ride in my car without seatbelts or car seats. “ Clearly I need to rush down to Central and buy the most expensive set of balls and a strong spine they sell and lay down the “no buckle, no ride” rule. Oh and the 10,0000 baht car seat also.

The videos are a great idea. I will gather facts this weekend, we will have a little family viewing session and then the “stupid, ugly, fat, smelly, crazy, old Farang” (and other endearing terms that are used to describe me) will just lay down the law and that will be that.

I can’t believe I needed help to have a shred of common sense, all rational thought and 30+ years of habit return to the surface but I feel a lot better now. Thanks!

[samran]

with Transport Accident Commission (TAC) in the State of Victoria (Australia) has been running brilliant road safety campaigns for the past 20 years.

There might be a few of their TV ads floating around on the new. They are graphic, and they work.

[naomisri]

You could also buy Rak Luke or one of the other Thai baby magazines, they from time to time do stories on the importance of carseats. I sometimes have to resort to the magazines to get my way in an argument as my husband is wowed into agreement by the official "in print" advice!! More often than not we totally agree, but he used to worry too much about what observers would think, it helps for him to be able to say "this is what the [enter authority figure here] says one should do."

[TizMe]

I find it easy. I never start the car until all seat belts are fastened. Some times it takes a few minutes until someone wants to know "Why aren't we going yet".

They are getting better, hopefully one day they will even wear the belts when I'm not in the car.

[sylvafern]

Here's some advertising from new zealand that promotes the importance of wearing seatbelts. They only seem to have copies of print adverts (for seatbelts) on their website (which should get the point across - very graphic) but there are also TV ads available which are very good and they do work when showing them to Thai people. I did it as part of a road saftely campaign some years back at my school. We showed selected clips during the parents information evening. During the week many different education related activities were carried out with the children. For months afterwards I was still having parents talking about how they always wore their seatbelt and how their children would tell them off if they forgot.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/advertising/safety-belts.html

Incidently, I agree with insisting on thy child being in the car seat. If you're driving then your rules apply. No one is allowed in my car without wearing a seatbelt - even if they've never worn one in their lives before (e.g. my son's grandmother didn't even know how to do one up). It's not just their safety you need to be worried about. In an accident, if someone is not belted in behind you, they can be thrown forward and the person in the front. Think about it .... definitely something worth insisting upon.

PS - the pictures on this website (and videos for other road safety issues) are very graphc and should not be shown to children. When I did this topic at my school, I had to sign a form agreeing that it couldn't not be shown to under 12's.

[andyadam]

no car seat with a belt on - no ride.

your car, your baby, your rules

Worked on my wifes grandparents!!!!!! They know now, even if it's just round the road, they don'e even have to be reminded now.

[Neeranam]

Do you never let your kids go on the back of a pick-up during Songkran?

Do you make your kids wear a helmet on their pushbikes?

[sylvafern]

No I never have and never will let my son on the back of a pick-up - especially during Songkran, and yes, when he is old enough to ride a bike, he will wear a crash helmet. (It's the law in New Zealand and I am not going to drop my safety standards just because I am here). His Thai grandfather tried to take him to the shop on his bike once (while clutching onto him) and when I explained to him that a 3 year old boy from my old school was in a coma for 6 weeks and permanently brain damaged after falling off the back of his nanny's bike, he understood my concerns.

The point of your question was ??????

[helicoptor]

re: original title of this thread .......... good luck!

[Valjean]

re: original title of this thread .......... good luck!

Quick up date - while working on the car seat issue the "mother-in-law" and her BF came riding up on the motorbike with the toddler without his helment. This I thought was clearly agreed when I bought the bike and my GF has been really supportive and consistant on this. I said something about this but got sort of a shrug. The GF was out of town but when we talked she ended up calling her mom and had a major blow up - long simmering issues - that lead to the mother leaving the household.

The mother did argue with everything from the universal "we didn't go far" to the Thai "we are all going to die when it is our time" to the personal "you are just a farang now" about kids wearing helments. But this argument just kicked in to gear with deeper issues. But I guess all of that could be another post. Meanwhile the GF will support car seats - when I'm around and not. And for now at least I don't have to convince the mother. Not sure if I ever want her back but agreement on this would clearly be a condition.

This weekend we head up country and the little guy will have his first trip straped in. I'll bring ear plugs for the tantrum that I am sure will come and my laptop with a his favorite videos (Thomas the Train) to try to calm him.

Thanks

Derek

[jumnien]

I usually go along with the flow around how we raise our kid. My mother-in-law lives with us and she is a saint. I have been upset about the fact that our 1.6 year old boy doesn't usually sit in the car seat. In the end, I've let go and let it be. When I was a boy we didn't have seat belts. When I was a teenager we had belts, but no harnesses. When did car seats even come into play? I'm not recommending others follow my lead on this, just relating my experience. I do insist on wearing seat belts for adults and admonish some farang for not wearing helmets when they ride their motorcycles. My son will never fly in my plane without wearing the four-point restraints! Gotta draw the line somewhere.

[thaihome]

I usually go along with the flow around how we raise our kid. My mother-in-law lives with us and she is a saint. I have been upset about the fact that our 1.6 year old boy doesn't usually sit in the car seat. In the end, I've let go and let it be. When I was a boy we didn't have seat belts. When I was a teenager we had belts, but no harnesses. When did car seats even come into play? I'm not recommending others follow my lead on this, just relating my experience. I do insist on wearing seat belts for adults and admonish some farang for not wearing helmets when they ride their motorcycles. My son will never fly in my plane without wearing the four-point restraints! Gotta draw the line somewhere.

Very good logical post. Some people seem to forget that all these issues took years to get to where we are today in the west with safety (and in many cases to ridiculous lengths)

TH

[Valjean]

I usually go along with the flow around how we raise our kid. My mother-in-law lives with us and she is a saint. I have been upset about the fact that our 1.6 year old boy doesn't usually sit in the car seat. In the end, I've let go and let it be. When I was a boy we didn't have seat belts. When I was a teenager we had belts, but no harnesses. When did car seats even come into play? I'm not recommending others follow my lead on this, just relating my experience. I do insist on wearing seat belts for adults and admonish some farang for not wearing helmets when they ride their motorcycles. My son will never fly in my plane without wearing the four-point restraints! Gotta draw the line somewhere.

Very good logical post. Some people seem to forget that all these issues took years to get to where we are today in the west with safety (and in many cases to ridiculous lengths)

TH

I thought I’d bump this back to the top with an update. Of course I had the same tendency to “go along” and just trust fate on this one. But it just bothered me – there are many things that we in the west are just too crazy about but I don’t think seatbelts and car seats for kids is one. Not here to preach however, each to their own.

Here is what I said in my last post: “This weekend we head up country and the little guy will have his first trip straped in. I'll bring ear plugs for the tantrum that I am sure will come and my laptop with a his favorite videos (Thomas the Train) to try to calm him.”

Here is what happened…

We left Central department store, installed the seat, strapped him in and he didn’t complain. We have done numerous upcountry trips – 5-7 hours and only get a little fussing now and again. He likes the view and we keep him busy. The Thomas videos are held until critical and then are wonderful. When you put him in the car he climbs in his seat. Only time he fusses is after hours – and he’d be fussing out of the seat.

But in addition to his safety the driving has become so much more sane and safe. We don’t have him crawling everywhere, going through the glove box and coin drawer. In a car we sit, talk and look at the window. We don’t run crazy from one end to the other. That is what he does now (+ the video) and I’d have to say he’s more calm and happy in the car. And the rest of us are sooooo much more relaxed. Night and day difference. Worth it even if there wasn’t the safety bonus.

Buckle me up Scottie!

[sylvafern]

Well done - it just shows that kids will adapt to anything with less fuss than you think.

[somtaamgaiyang]

The raising children in Thailand did bring up one very sore point for me: car seats and seat belts

I have a situation where my partner’s two year old has never been put in a car seat. There is the mom who I think would support me in trying, and the “mother in law” who I’m sure isn’t going to understand this at all. Plus all the other children and situations he’s in with other people and cars. Has anyone experience in making the case and getting a Thai family to change on this? I’m so flexible about doing things the Thai way but this one thing (and helmets for kids on motorcycles – am having some luck there) really worries and upsets me.

Does anyone know of research on this? Not sure if facts and figures will help but it might...

thanks

Explain that it makes it possible to go to the shops with only one driver as opposed to another person to hold the baby. Very liberating for mum!