fresh water plumbing problem

[Duke007]

I recently had the entire pipe system replaced. Using city water, into a holding tank, into a pump, into the house. Worked fine for a couple of months, but suddenly I discovered no water in house,  the water tank is almost empty and the tank is only refilling very slowly. City water pressure seems to be ok. The original plumbing design was supposed to provide water even in the event of city water disruption or electricity outage. Now I'm not sure if the plumbing design was correct. Maybe someone with a knowledge of plumbing can tell me from the 2 photos if the plumbing was done correctly??? And any suggestion to diagnose the current problem would be appreciated.

[Crossy]

You should have something like this.

 

 

 

[Artisi]

if the tank being supplied from the town main is not filling, then the problem is between the town supply and the tank, nothing to do with tank to pump to house plumbing. How much water is available after the meter .

[worgeordie]

I had the same problem last week, the float valve was corroded,blocked

and no water was getting through,it was an old system,yours is new

so the float valve should be new, but check it anyway.

regards worgeordie

[Crossy]

I'm definitely confused here, which is the inlet / outlet side of the pump?

 

You seem to have a link inlet to outlet although that shouldn't result in the tank filling slowly.

 

Where does the cut pipe vanishing into the ground below the filter go?

 

How does your arrangement relate to my drawing?

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

25 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I'm definitely confused here, which is the inlet / outlet side of the pump?

 

You seem to have a link inlet to outlet although that shouldn't result in the tank filling slowly.

 

Where does the cut pipe vanishing into the ground below the filter go?

 

How does your arrangement relate to my drawing?

 

 

If its a Hitachi or same layout the out is on the left in this orientation. 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Fruit Trader

[BEVUP]

I see what he has, but from the tank to pump/filter / house is wrong

 

1 - He has from the meter going to tank a by pass going into house ( so he will need another tap prior to the tank )

     So the water isn't shared between tank & house if there is a problem after the tank & you switch on that by pass

 

2 - There is fine print in black as to where the pipes are coming from to the pump.

     To me that is completely wrong

     * pump to house on L/H side of pump 

     The pipe from the tank should go into the R/H side of pump & the L/H side should go into Filter (watch for the arrow indicating flow direction ) then out of filter into the pipe in the ground which enters house

 

What you have in you picture is just one big loop

[Duke007]

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can clarify a few things.

   1. There is a tank bypass where water from city goes directly into the house, but the cutoff valve seems to be installed in the wrong place, thus allowing . some water to continue into the tank. But for some reason this did not seem to work (minimal water flow into house) at the time of the problem.

   2.  City water was flowing (pressure appeared ok) at time of the problem but when I looked into the tank, it was almost empty. The following day water trickled into the tank, filling after about 6 hours. The float valve is only 3 months old.

   3. My  plumbing design fairly closely matches the diagram from Crossy, with the addition of a filter. My setup has water flowing from the tank into the filter and then into the pump. Bevup seems to be saying the water should go into the filter before the pump.??? Is this critical?

   4. Whatever design problems might exist, it turns out the main problem was a burned out part in the pump, probably due to an electrical fluctuation during a thunderstorm the night before the problem started. An 800 baht part replacement and I have water again.

[Fruit Trader]

40 minutes ago, Duke007 said:

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can clarify a few things.

   1. There is a tank bypass where water from city goes directly into the house, but the cutoff valve seems to be installed in the wrong place, thus allowing . some water to continue into the tank. But for some reason this did not seem to work (minimal water flow into house) at the time of the problem.

   2.  City water was flowing (pressure appeared ok) at time of the problem but when I looked into the tank, it was almost empty. The following day water trickled into the tank, filling after about 6 hours. The float valve is only 3 months old.

   3. My  plumbing design fairly closely matches the diagram from Crossy, with the addition of a filter. My setup has water flowing from the tank into the filter and then into the pump. Bevup seems to be saying the water should go into the filter before the pump.??? Is this critical?

   4. Whatever design problems might exist, it turns out the main problem was a burned out part in the pump, probably due to an electrical fluctuation during a thunderstorm the night before the problem started. An 800 baht part replacement and I have water again.

Bevup is saying put the filter on the output side of the pump and remove it from the suction side.

If your system follows the Crossy diagram then you have two choices for filter location.

1. Under the diagram words From water meter (my choice)
2. Under the diagram  words House supply

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Duke007 said:

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can clarify a few things.

   1. There is a tank bypass where water from city goes directly into the house, but the cutoff valve seems to be installed in the wrong place, thus allowing . some water to continue into the tank. But for some reason this did not seem to work (minimal water flow into house) at the time of the problem.

   2.  City water was flowing (pressure appeared ok) at time of the problem but when I looked into the tank, it was almost empty. The following day water trickled into the tank, filling after about 6 hours. The float valve is only 3 months old.

   3. My  plumbing design fairly closely matches the diagram from Crossy, with the addition of a filter. My setup has water flowing from the tank into the filter and then into the pump. Bevup seems to be saying the water should go into the filter before the pump.??? Is this critical?

   4. Whatever design problems might exist, it turns out the main problem was a burned out part in the pump, probably due to an electrical fluctuation during a thunderstorm the night before the problem started. An 800 baht part replacement and I have water again.

There really isn't any correlation between low flow into the tank from the town main and  your pumps operation, unless of course the tank is empty - but that's a system not a pump problem. 

So appears you had 2 problems, 1: faulty pump and 2: no water (or not enough water) in the tank. 

For interest,  a few weeks back, following a major storm and brown-out (very low supply voltage) I needed to isolate the pump from the supply to ensure the pump wasn't trying to operate on the low voltage, this maybe what  a caused your B800 problem. 

[BEVUP]

17 hours ago, Duke007 said:

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can clarify a few things.

   1. There is a tank bypass where water from city goes directly into the house, but the cutoff valve seems to be installed in the wrong place, thus allowing . some water to continue into the tank. But for some reason this did not seem to work (minimal water flow into house) at the time of the problem.

   2.  City water was flowing (pressure appeared ok) at time of the problem but when I looked into the tank, it was almost empty. The following day water trickled into the tank, filling after about 6 hours. The float valve is only 3 months old.

   3. My  plumbing design fairly closely matches the diagram from Crossy, with the addition of a filter. My setup has water flowing from the tank into the filter and then into the pump. Bevup seems to be saying the water should go into the filter before the pump.??? Is this critical?

   4. Whatever design problems might exist, it turns out the main problem was a burned out part in the pump, probably due to an electrical fluctuation during a thunderstorm the night before the problem started. An 800 baht part replacement and I have water again.

Answer

1. Your bypass is ok except you need a tap on the pipe that goes to the tank as well 

 

2. The town water pressure is crap half the time - people have even put small pumps between the meter & tank so they have enough water

 

3. You plumbing design is shit - I SAID - Your pipe from tank needs to go into pump / Then "main house inlet" (at pump) into Filter / then out of Filter into house (that would be the pipe in the ground )

[Crossy]

Please read Post #2.

 

How does what you have tie up with the diagram?

 

Do a sketch of your current arrangements.

 

[wpcoe]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:56 PM, Duke007 said:

2.  City water was flowing (pressure appeared ok) at time of the problem but when I looked into the tank, it was almost empty. The following day water trickled into the tank, filling after about 6 hours. The float valve is only 3 months old.

 

Is your water tank above ground, i.e. not buried in the ground?  My comments are based on an above-ground tank.

 

You say the city water was flowing, but the tank was almost empty.  I'm assuming that at that moment -- when the city water was flowing -- there was nothing going into the tank? 

 

Describing the city water pressure as "ok" is subjective -- do you think it was strong enough to push water up the height of the tank?  If so, then in addition to the float valve (as mentioned above) a possibility is some blockage in the pipe from the meter to the tank.  Can you detach from the meter-end and see if you can easily blow air through the pipe?

 

I once had a problem with an air con where after a while, but only sporadically, the condensation water would flow into the room.  Luckily, when the repair guy came to troubleshoot was one such time when the water was dripping into the room.  He took a compressed-air hose and blew from the drain hole in the bottom of the room-mounted wall unit.  Out shot a big black beetle from the outdoor end of the drain pipe.  The beetle was very much alive.  We speculated that it would occasionally wander into the pipe for whatever reason, and at those times the water would back up and flow into the room.  Just wondering if there might be something partially blocking the water flow into your tank.

 

Where I lived in Hua Hin the water pressure was very low and often only existent a few hours per day, usually at night.  Because my tank was above ground, when the pressure was low, it was inadequate to push vertically the height of my tank.  (It was a tall, narrow tank.) Talking with neighbors, I found that that's why many of them installed their tanks underground so that they had a greater chance of filling.

 

On 5/26/2018 at 9:43 AM, BEVUP said:

The town water pressure is crap half the time - people have even put small pumps between the meter & tank so they have enough water

I thought it was illegal to have a pump sucking water out of the city feed?  

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

 

Is your water tank above ground, i.e. not buried in the ground?  My comments are based on an above-ground tank.

 

You say the city water was flowing, but the tank was almost empty.  I'm assuming that at that moment -- when the city water was flowing -- there was nothing going into the tank? 

 

Describing the city water pressure as "ok" is subjective -- do you think it was strong enough to push water up the height of the tank?  If so, then in addition to the float valve (as mentioned above) a possibility is some blockage in the pipe from the meter to the tank.  Can you detach from the meter-end and see if you can easily blow air through the pipe?

 

I once had a problem with an air con where after a while, but only sporadically, the condensation water would flow into the room.  Luckily, when the repair guy came to troubleshoot was one such time when the water was dripping into the room.  He took a compressed-air hose and blew from the drain hole in the bottom of the room-mounted wall unit.  Out shot a big black beetle from the outdoor end of the drain pipe.  The beetle was very much alive.  We speculated that it would occasionally wander into the pipe for whatever reason, and at those times the water would back up and flow into the room.  Just wondering if there might be something partially blocking the water flow into your tank.

 

Where I lived in Hua Hin the water pressure was very low and often only existent a few hours per day, usually at night.  Because my tank was above ground, when the pressure was low, it was inadequate to push vertically the height of my tank.  (It was a tall, narrow tank.) Talking with neighbors, I found that that's why many of them installed their tanks underground so that they had a greater chance of filling.

 

I thought it was illegal to have a pump sucking water out of the city feed?  

As far as I know it is illegal in Thailand - but who cares - there is probably 1000's other things illegal but nobody gives a toss about them - so why worry about a few illegally installed pumps.

However, pumping from the mains has a sanitary consideration - but domestic plumbing in Thailand is so useless it probably doesn't matter.

[BEVUP]

16 minutes ago, Artisi said:

As far as I know it is illegal in Thailand - but who cares - there is probably 1000's other things illegal but nobody gives a toss about them - so why worry about a few illegally installed pumps.

However, pumping from the mains has a sanitary consideration - but domestic plumbing in Thailand is so useless it probably doesn't matter.

No sanitary problem as your set up is still the same

Meaning - The small pump in the mains is just assisting the low water pressure to the tank 

There's 3 across the road that I know of ( they must use some water as my household of 3 is ok )

[Artisi]

4 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

No sanitary problem as your set up is still the same

Meaning - The small pump in the mains is just assisting the low water pressure to the tank 

There's 3 across the road that I know of ( they must use some water as my household of 3 is ok )

No it's not, pumping from the mains can lower the mains pressure which can encourage ingress of foul ground water into system - this is one reason that is illegal not only in Thailand but I would think most civilised countries.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:21 PM, BEVUP said:

No sanitary problem as your set up is still the same

Meaning - The small pump in the mains is just assisting the low water pressure to the tank 

There's 3 across the road that I know of ( they must use some water as my household of 3 is ok )

It certainly does have sanitary problems as negative pressure in the mains can suck in cesspit water as well as animal waste.

[JAS21]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:21 PM, BEVUP said:

No sanitary problem as your set up is still the same

Meaning - The small pump in the mains is just assisting the low water pressure to the tank 

There's 3 across the road that I know of ( they must use some water as my household of 3 is ok )

Normally you will get away with sucking directly from the mains ...the problem can arise when the water company have to shut the system down for leak repairs ... then you may very well suck in something from the outside of the water pipe which is not good for you! ... you should also consider that just about all water pipes in Thailand leak and at night, frequently, the water company reduce the supply pressure.

 

When I know that our water company are repairing a leak I isolate our mains supply ... am happy for others to ingest whatever dropped into the pipe during the repairs ....

 

I won't comment on Mr Dukes system as I don't understand it ....

Edited June 1, 2018 by JAS21

[Duke007]

Thanks for all the comments. In summary, it seems I just had low city water pressure for a while. no faulty float valve, possible obstruction that has now cleared, plumbing design that might have been better having tank water run into the pump 1st and then the filter, and most obviously I had a burned out part in the pump due to the electrical brown out. Now the only thing is the pump cuts on/off repeatedly every couple of seconds while water is turned on in the house. I have someone scheduled to check this. I'm considering building a new house, so maybe I can do better the next time.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Duke007 said:

Now the only thing is the pump cuts on/off repeatedly every couple of seconds while water is turned on in the house.

Waterlogged pressure tank is my guess.