Calculator Needed At Airport Immigration

[Sunbelt Asia]

A client came to our office yesterday. One of our lawyers was talking with him and was thumbing through his passport over and over again. I went over to the meeting room and asked “What is the problem?” She said “The client was told that he has been here for 89 days since the First of October. They spent 20 minutes going over his passport at the airport with many people behind him getting restless in the queue. The Immigration officer he first met would not answer his questions about something being wrong, and just kept going through the passport.”

Apparently they escorted him to an office with a “Come with me” as people looked at him as though he were a criminal. The officer said to the Head Immigration man “He has been here for 89 days.” They counted the days and the head guy came up with a total of 86 days. They argued back and forth counting and recounting the days (he’s had five entries since Oct 21st). Finally they agreed on 89 days, after one said 86, then another count yielded 83 days and finally they both came up with 89 days. They give him a one day entry and same day exit stamp, and told him he must leave Thailand by midnight that night. The client then told them that he had an apartment and a dog, so what was he going to do? The officer advised him to go to Immigration. He did, and was given a seven day extension at the Immigration office on Soi Suan Plu.

The problem the lawyer had with the passport was that she kept coming up with a total of 80 days. I carefully went through every stamp on every page myself, and came up with the same number of 80 days counting the one day he was given at the airport on the 25th of January. Immigration counted wrongly, and accidentally deprived him of 10 days of his quota at the airport. If they had counted 90 days instead of 89 days he would not have been allowed in to get the seven day extension. We copied every page of his passport and went over it again. Nothing of course changed, and it was still 80 days since October 1st (not counting of course the seven day extension from Immigration).

He was planning to go back to Europe after a couple days in Thailand and thought he still had a week or so left on his quota.

The breakdown was as follows:

Oct 21st to Nov 5th ... 16 days

Nov 9th to Nov 27th ... 19 days

Dec 1st to Dec 4th... 4 days

Dec 11th to Dec 14th .... 4 days

Dec 17th to Jan 21st ... 36 days (6 day overstay)

Jan 25th to Jan 25th... 1 day

TOTAL DAYS ... 80 days

Jan 25th to Feb 1st .... 7 days (extension at Immigration)

If you are close to the 90 day limit since Oct 1st, 2006 (90 days out of the past 180 days), you should be prepared with papers outlining how many days you have spent in the country, and when exactly you entered and exited Thailand. Note the page number of your passport with the entry, exit days and days used. As this client pointed out, he was very nervous and the last thing he was thinking was that they could be wrong. This unfortunate mistake could have meant no entry into Thailand after traveling six hours by plane.

By the way, the day you enter counts as one day and the day you leave counts also as one day. For example, if you entered on the 27th of January at 10 p.m. and left on the morning of the 29th at 5 a.m., after you spent two nights in a hotel in Thailand (the 27th and the 28th), then it counts as three days: the 27th, 28th and 29th.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunny Valentine]

By the way, the day you enter counts as one day and the day you leave counts also as one day. For example, if you entered on the 27th of January at 10 p.m. and left on the morning of the 29th at 5 a.m., after you spent two nights in a hotel in Thailand (the 27th and the 28th), then it counts as three days: the 27th, 28th and 29th.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

And this leads to 88 Days spent in Thailand when you are doing 3 consecutive Visa runs of 30 Days each .... What a mess!

[lopburi3]

Good advise to have it listed. Perhaps better would be have a visa and don't let it get that close.

As for the count I wonder if those "6" overstay days may have been counted twice to come up with the 86 day first total? I suspect such stamps will not be ignored as often now as in the past.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Good advise to have it listed. Perhaps better would be have a visa and don't let it get that close.

As for the count I wonder if those "6" overstay days may have been counted twice to come up with the 86 day first total? I suspect such stamps will not be ignored as often now as in the past.

That may of been the case on the double count of the overstay. Even if they missed one 4 day stamp, that would of been "85 days." Who knows, what was going on???

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ovenman]

I don't know what the eventual outcome will be from all of this but I cannot imagine that the current system (or lack thereof) will last long-term.

[Krub]

Not looking forward to wait in line for 15 minutes per passenger while immigration count and re-count the days !

[CRUNCHER]

Not looking forward to wait in line for 15 minutes per passenger while immigration count and re-count the days !

A few months ago I was ridiculed for saying that I didn't want to be in the immigration line behind one of these cases. I do not think one poster agreed with me. Dgoes to show! Perhaps Immigratoion should consider separate queues for visa holders and those using "visa expemt entries"

Edited January 30, 2007 by CRUNCHER

[PeaceBlondie]

Absurd: lawyers with many years of law school, taking hours to count days using fourth grade math! Likewise, immigration officers trained in their law enforcement specialty, scribbling on scraps of paper whilst a long queue gets nervous.

Excellent suggestion there by Sunbelt Asia: if you're trying for a 3rd or 4th stamp VOA, have it all written down as carefully as possible on one sheet of paper, referencing which page of the passport the stamp is located.

This also re-confirms: sometimes, they count days. Exactly. But they cannot add.

[sniffdog]

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Perhaps Immigratoion should consider separate queues for visa holders and those using "visa expemt entries"

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Don't they? I think to have seen a special section on the new airport last saturday which had signs 'Visa on Arrival' or 'No Visa'.

But would be really impractical at borders ....

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By the way, the day you enter counts as one day and the day you leave counts also as one day. For example, if you entered on the 27th of January at 10 p.m. and left on the morning of the 29th at 5 a.m., after you spent two nights in a hotel in Thailand (the 27th and the 28th), then it counts as three days: the 27th, 28th and 29th.

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Seems logical to me. The same as how tour operators count the days of their tours (ie 3 days/2nights).

Reading a thread here it even seems that if you arrive (gets stamped in) on the 28th of January at 2 am and leave at the 29th at 5am, you still have 3 days., as they stamp you in on the 27th.

Edited January 30, 2007 by sniffdog

[londonthai]

different story "visa expemt entries" and 'VOA' - the first one is free and is for 30 days the second cost 1k and is for 15 days.

they are for different passports

Edited January 30, 2007 by londonthai

[TerryLH]

If you cross a border and return the same day, does that count as two days?

The day you exited and the day you entered. = 2

[ovenman]

If you cross a border and return the same day, does that count as two days?

The day you exited and the day you entered. = 2

I don't see why it wouldn't count as two days towards a total. When immigrations issues entry stamps, the date of entry always counts as a day stayed as does the date of exit.

[Maestro]

I think to have seen a special section on the new airport last saturday which had signs 'Visa on Arrival' or 'No Visa'.

The “Visa on arrival” counter is a separate counter, about 100 metres before the first turn-off to the immigration desks. At this “Visa on arrival” counter passport holders qualifying for it can get a visa on arrival stamped into their passports, then proceed to immigration and get the entry stamp – “admitted <date> until <date>” – in the passport.

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Maestro

[george]

Amazing! A simple spreadsheet in Excel or OpenOffice could do these date calculations in a millisecond

[sjaak327]

Unbelievable. Now I guess if there are enough of those people at any one time, the queues at immigration could be huge.

You would have thought that at least at the airport, they should have some kind of automated system. I thought entry and exit dates are stored in the computer ? Surely it's a piece of cake to calculate the total number of days in the last six months counting for today's date.

I have a Lao boyfriend, who is going back to my home country in April. He arrived in Thailand end of december, went to Laos but went back to Thailand. Now I'm comming over as well, when we will go to Laos and Kuala Lumpur. I have counted all the days he actually will be in Thailand, and come to 96 up until the day he will take the plane to Europe. Now I have read here that the 90 day limit might not be for Lao citizens, but I'm sure I'm going to apply for a tourist visa for him in KL. Just to avoid this sort of shit.

[george]

OK, I'll do my contribution to the "problem":

Tomorrow we will launch two on-line calculators on thaivisa.com:

1. Multiple 30-days calculator: Calculates how many days you have stayed on Visa Exemption since Oct 1 2006, or in the last 6 months period)

2. Overstay calculator: Calculates your overstay in days and Baht.

[Mid]

torn between thanking-you for the 'service ' ,

and

screaming due to frustration that it's required ........................

[danone]

would the launch of separate queues for VOAs be a racist thing?

[Maestro]

would the launch of separate queues for VOAs be a racist thing?

There is already a separate counter for VOAs. There is nothing racist about it at all.

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Maestro

[astral]

Oh what a farce.

When arriving at the total, do they count:

1. The day of arrival,

2. The day of departure??

It can make a big difference.

I have the same calculation problem here in Malaysia.

I am permitted to enter and remain for 90 days

and it stamped as 25th November, the day I arrived.

[ovenman]

I have the same calculation problem here in Malaysia.

I am permitted to enter and remain for 90 days

and it stamped as 25th November, the day I arrived.

I've noticed that Malaysia immigrations is starting to use entry stamps on which they add an extra date stamp telling the traveler exactly when they must depart Malaysia (i.e. similar to the format of Thai immigrations entry stamps). In the past, the Malaysian stamps stated "one month", "three months", etc., the duration of which is open to some interpretation. I guess this sort of ambiguity is not exclusive to Thailand!

[Sunbelt Asia]

When arriving at the total, do they count:

1. The day of arrival,

2. The day of departure??

Both are counted, which is two days, with the exception if its the same day that you entered and did a exit, then its one day.

OK, I'll do my contribution to the "problem":

Tomorrow we will launch two on-line calculators on thaivisa.com:

1. Multiple 30-days calculator: Calculates how many days you have stayed on Visa Exemption since Oct 1 2006, or in the last 6 months period)

2. Overstay calculator: Calculates your overstay in days and Baht.

Thanks George. The biggest time waster is wading thru pages of stamps and find which ones are appropriate. Too bad, you didn't have software for that.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[tim77]

The way it works in many countries is that any portion of a day counts as a full day.

So if you arrive in the morning and leave in the afternoon, this is one day.

And if you arrive at 11:59 pm on the 10th and leave at 8 a.m. the 11th, this is two day.

[george]

When arriving at the total, do they count:

1. The day of arrival,

2. The day of departure??

Both are counted, which is two days, with the exception if its the same day that you entered and did a exit, then its one day.

OK, I'll do my contribution to the "problem":

Tomorrow we will launch two on-line calculators on thaivisa.com:

1. Multiple 30-days calculator: Calculates how many days you have stayed on Visa Exemption since Oct 1 2006, or in the last 6 months period)

2. Overstay calculator: Calculates your overstay in days and Baht.

Thanks George. The biggest time waster is wading thru pages of stamps and find which ones are appropriate. Too bad, you didn't have software for that.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Our programmer Viorel is on it now, it will be done this weekend.

[wowpow]

So after an hour ot two when they count up the number of days. Then they have to count up the number of days in the 6 months from the first day of entry. This could take some time.

[WAERTH]

George,

Maybe you can donate the program you are making to Thai immigration

Waerth

[icecubes]

Nice one for the calculator.

Don’t give it to them.

We need as many Thai immigration people pissed off

with counting days as possible.

The bigger the line of people and more angry the better.

Then the silliness might stop. ( well I can dream)

[singa-traz]

Amazing! A simple spreadsheet in Excel or OpenOffice could do these date calculations in a millisecond

What's amazing is that this information is stored in the immigration computer.

[icecubes]

We think.

But remember a computer is only as good as the person on the keyboard.

[Maestro]

The bigger the line of people and more angry the better.

Then the silliness might stop. ( well I can dream)

Hopefully, you’ve got a soft pillow for your dreams as I fear it may take at least another year, probably more, for that rule to be revoked or at least modified in such way as to make life easier for the immigration officials. My best guess is that it will happen after the retirement or replacement of the person who signed the rule.

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Maestro