Jomtien immigration -- tracking rumor about change in policy about freshness of income letters

[tropo]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Please LIMIT your comments on this thread STRICTLY to the question of the AGE rules about income letters at Jomtien. Not all threads need to be about everything.

 

 

Good LUCK with THAT. 90% of THIS thread is ABOUT retirement INCOME letter embassy requirements in general INCLUDING posts by a moderator.

Edited June 2, 2018 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I will now add there soon will be a U.S. consular visit to Pattaya in early June. 

 

I'm assuming a significant percentage of the people using that service (and you can be sure the room will be PACKED) will be going there for INCOME LETTERS and most of them (as in the PAST) will be planning on using them FAR LATER than one month from their extension meeting. (As the consular visits are so INFREQUENT.)

 

I'm now going to suggest that Americans using that service bring this up as an issue with the embassy officials there. Please ask them to communicate with Jomtien immigration about this rule, and if it has changed, to please change it back! 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

We now have another very significant recent report giving evidence that the income letter age rule has NOT changed. The plot thickens!

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

4 months ago an American friend who lives in Pattaya and uses the Jomtien immigration office took along an income letter from his Embassy dated 2 months prior to his extension being due, and was refused, ask to come back with a letter pre-dated up to one month before date of application.

Don`t know what he did after that, he got around the problem somehow.

 

So it seems some of the reports are true.

 

 

OK, sorry, but I'm going to challenge you about this now.

Because it still doesn't make any sense that they changed this rule.

You say it was a friend.

Is it possible that didn't fully understand the details about what he reported?

After all, this is not YOUR report. It's another person.

Is that person a member here?

Can you ask them to post here about that incident?

This is important for a lot of people.

Perhaps there were unusual circumstances with his specific application that were involved in their demand?

My only goal here is to get to the TRUTH about the rules there, in a definitive way. Because many people need to know. 

[Jingthing]

More EXTREMELY strong evidence that the age rule on income letters has NOT changed.

 

 

I would almost say it is DEFINITE now, that the rule has not changed.

But then we got that outlier report from cyberfarang. I really hope he gets his "friend" to post here and describe his incident in detail. I will somewhat discount it because it is a post about someone else's experience, not his, and as we all know, things get lost in translation sometimes. 

[55Jay]

[jerry921]

We've got posters screaming THE RULE HASNT CHANGED!!!
 

And on the other hand, we've got two odd reports, one second hand, of immigration officers who say/want/insist that it has to be 1 month or less old.

 

I don't understand why this generates so much angst. It's hardly the first time a given official has their own private version of the rules.

 

If, due to location or other logistical considerations, it's difficult or impossible to get one less than one month old, just print off a written copy of the official rules and take it along with you and try your luck arguing with the misinformed official. That should up your odds of getting an old letter accepted from 90% to 91 or 92% at least.

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK, sorry, but I'm going to challenge you about this now.

Because it still doesn't make any sense that they changed this rule.

You say it was a friend.

Is it possible that didn't fully understand the details about what he reported?

After all, this is not YOUR report. It's another person.

Is that person a member here?

Can you ask them to post here about that incident?

This is important for a lot of people.

Perhaps there were unusual circumstances with his specific application that were involved in their demand?

My only goal here is to get to the TRUTH about the rules there, in a definitive way. Because many people need to know. 

Jingthing, my friend was a member of TV many moons ago and hasn`t participated on here for years. But certainly, I will ask him if he`s interested in doing so. BTW, my friend is on a retirement as so am I.

 

Last February I visited Chiang Mai immigration to extend my annual retirement visa. I use the 800000 baht in the bank method. Used to be the required bank letter could be dated up to 7 days prior to application, same applied with the bank books.

 

Turned up there, officer told me, rules have changed, now the bank letter and bank book has to be dated same day as application. So I had to visit my bank on opening time the following day to obtain a new bank letter and update my bankbook, then travel to immigration again to apply for my extension.

 

2 weeks later, another friend, Scottish guy, went to Chiang Mai immigration for his retirement extension, with a bank letter and bank book dated 5 days before. No problem, sailed through. So go and figure?

 

I believe it`s all to do with what an immigration officer decides are the rules at the time, it depends on which officer we are dealing with.

 

Best way, is why not visit Jomtiem immigration and ask? Get the info straight from the horses mouth. Because I guess that asking on here, members experiences are going to be different for reasons I have explained. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Jingthing, my friend was a member of TV many moons ago and hasn`t participated on here for years. But certainly, I will ask him if he`s interested in doing so. BTW, my friend is on a retirement as so am I.

 

Last February I visited Chiang Mai immigration to extend my annual retirement visa. I use the 800000 baht in the bank method. Used to be the required bank letter could be dated up to 7 days prior to application, same applied with the bank books.

 

Turned up there, officer told me, rules have changed, now the bank letter and bank book has to be dated same day as application. So I had to visit my bank on opening time the following day to obtain a new bank letter and update my bankbook, then travel to immigration again to apply for my extension.

 

2 weeks later, another friend, Scottish guy, went to Chiang Mai immigration for his retirement extension, with a bank letter and bank book dated 5 days before. No problem, sailed through. So go and figure?

 

I believe it`s all to do with what an immigration officer decides are the rules at the time, it depends on which officer we are dealing with.

 

Best way, is why not visit Jomtiem immigration and ask? Get the info straight from the horses mouth. Because I guess that asking on here, members experiences are going to be different for reasons I have explained. 

With the bank letter that's an enforcement variance of days.

A change for allowing six months down to one month for income letters is a radical change.

No, I am not going in there as I've already explained multiple times. 

What I am doing is this thread.

 

We've got something much better than me going in there already as I just posted -- a very specific report making it darn clear the rule is still SIX MONTHS.

 

So yes I'm curious about your friend's report.

If they really were often not allowing older income letters than one month I think we would have heard SEVERAL very loud reports about that by now!

Yet I had to aggressively seek them out. Your friend's is actually the ONLY ONE and it's not even directly from him. So that's really weird how it's been almost impossible to find any other reports like that (and also I'm pretty sure NONE posted on this forum for years as I read this forum and I would have noticed that) and makes me wonder if there was something very unusual about his application maybe not even related to the income letter that somehow caused the action of the officer to vary their usual rule. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[poanoi]

immigration individuals makes up regulations as they go

depending on current state of hair etc.

no doubt they can be made to have a change of heart

if a change of money is involved,

and that is smoothest done by an agent

Edited June 2, 2018 by poanoi

[glegolo]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes they do indeed and I have used their web site as a source before. But to keep it real enforcement is a moving target and they aren't always 100 percent current because that isn't even possible.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I read ONCE MORE how you throw away explanations and reports and sources from this issue, Maybe it is time for you to stop now, Stop and reflect, and be a bit open minded. So now people working as volonteers on a daily basis at this immigration-offie is good enough...

 

You create a thread, and you REALLY keep it going page after page..... after page after page after.....

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Don`t know what he did after that, he got around the problem somehow.

 

I think maybe he finally talked to somebody different and got his extension done. There apparently has been no change in policy since there have already been a couple of posts by people that did it with one older than 30 days.

[Rarebear]

3 hours ago, poanoi said:

immigration individuals makes up regulations as they go

depending on current state of hair etc.

no doubt they can be made to have a change of heart

if a change of money is involved,

and that is smoothest done by an agent

My experience over 18 years has been 90% of the problems are created by the expat having communications issues with the folks at Immigration.  I've never liked the agents and I think they gum up the works by cutting in line and stopping the average expat from doing business.  Those that serve a legitimate purpose helping older or handicapped or serve an industrial purpose are a different category. The ones that advertise false problems to increase business are the worst.   

[PhonThong]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

That's exactly the way I do it, but I take the bus LOL. Next day I apply for my extension. I don't think you need a bank letter to confirm your account though. I've never done that, except for the very first extension. Are you using the income plus bank deposit combination route?

 

Have you ever gone past the U.S. embassy in the morning in BKK? Not sure what the Australian or any other embassy is like, but the line at the U.S. embassy stretches down the sidewalk to the over highway walkway. This continues for hours. MOST, not all of these people are waiting for interviews with an embassy person. They are hoping to get a visa for whatever reason to the United States.  This goes on every day. Without an appointment or a dire emergency, you have no chance of getting in.  I know, I tried it once. Had to come back in two days. 

These outreach programs are a godsend for most. I am just sorry they cut down the number of visits and the fact they no longer take cash.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Have you ever gone past the U.S. embassy in the morning in BKK? Not sure what the Australian or any other embassy is like, but the line at the U.S. embassy stretches down the sidewalk to the over highway walkway.

If you are a US citizen you do not have to wait in that long line. You can go to the window for security, show them your passport and inform them what you want to do. They have a phone that can be used to talk to one of the consular officee in the ACS section.

You do need an appointment before going unless it is an emergency.

[PhonThong]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you are a US citizen you do not have to wait in that long line. You can go to the window for security, show them your passport and inform them what you want to do. They have a phone that can be used to talk to one of the consular officee in the ACS section.

You do need an appointment before going unless it is an emergency.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I tried just that.  They didn't care that I was a U.S. citizen or not.  Had my passport of course because I was there to get my letter. The girl at the window, wouldn't budge. She gave me an appointment for two days later. This was 2 years ago.  Maybe it got better, don't know.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Certainly not wrong about standing in the line.

It was an emergency such as a lost/stolen passport they would of allowed you to enter.

They have gotten stricter on the appointments in the last few years. I alway make a appointment before going. Easy to do and you can do them well in advance.

I have observed a person that had traveled from Pattaya to get a income affidavit and they allowed him to enter after he talked to a consular officer on the phone.

[Jingthing]

I think maybe he finally talked to somebody different and got his extension done. There apparently has been no change in policy since there have already been a couple of posts by people that did it with one older than 30 days.

That's a reasonable guess but it would be good to hear the story from the actual source. I reckon we probably won't though.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mercman24]

wow you are lucky re SWEDISH EMBASSY  500 baht, the rip off UK EMBASSY takes 50 English pounds, i supply all the information of 5 pensions, they have a quick look, type a letter to say YES HE HAS TOLD US THAT IS WHAT HE GETS , and that will be 50 quid please

[PhonThong]

55 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Certainly not wrong about standing in the line.

It was an emergency such as a lost/stolen passport they would of allowed you to enter.

They have gotten stricter on the appointments in the last few years. I alway make a appointment before going. Easy to do and you can do them well in advance.

I have observed a person that had traveled from Pattaya to get a income affidavit and they allowed him to enter after he talked to a consular officer on the phone.

It wasn't an emergency, just an error on my part for not realizing the correct date.  I can't blame the embassy personnel.  I come an go so often from the country that I need to keep better track of my extension dates.

 I am just amazed at the number of people that show up every day. 

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting and bickering posts have been removed.

[Thailand J]

When the appointment system was first implemented I didn't know. I showed up without an appointment and they let me in, after talking to someone on the phone at the door . I kept repeating I came from Pattaya . That was a few years ago. Things may have changed. Is the latest appointment you can make still at10:45am?

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Things may have changed. Is the latest appointment you can make still at 10:45am?

Yes it is.

[tropo]

5 hours ago, PhonThong said:

 

Have you ever gone past the U.S. embassy in the morning in BKK? Not sure what the Australian or any other embassy is like, but the line at the U.S. embassy stretches down the sidewalk to the over highway walkway. This continues for hours. MOST, not all of these people are waiting for interviews with an embassy person. They are hoping to get a visa for whatever reason to the United States.  This goes on every day. Without an appointment or a dire emergency, you have no chance of getting in.  I know, I tried it once. Had to come back in two days. 

These outreach programs are a godsend for most. I am just sorry they cut down the number of visits and the fact they no longer take cash.

No I have never gone past the US Embassy in the morning in BKK. I don't even know where it is.

 

Regarding the Australian Embassy, you get the income letter from the Consular Services counter. I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes. Visa applications are outsourced and done in a different building, far from the Embassy. That is a mad house. The Embassy itself is as peaceful as a morgue. It's so quiet the experience is somewhat surreal.

 

However, we don't have an outreach program, so it's always a trip to BKK.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, mercman24 said:

wow you are lucky re SWEDISH EMBASSY  500 baht, the rip off UK EMBASSY takes 50 English pounds, i supply all the information of 5 pensions, they have a quick look, type a letter to say YES HE HAS TOLD US THAT IS WHAT HE GETS , and that will be 50 quid please

The Australian Embassy increased the price last year from about 500 baht to about 1700 (depending on exchange rates).

[Thailand J]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

I have no idea why anyone would get an income letter 6 months before they do their application.

because US embassy outreach is only here in Pattaya every 6 months or so, where the Americans can get the letter in advance. To get a letter that is one month old the Americans have to make an appointment and goto BKK embassy for the letter.

You still haven't got this into your head?

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Thailand J said:

because US embassy outreach is only here in Pattaya every 6 months or so, where the Americans can get the letter in advance. To get a letter that is one month old the Americans have to make an appointment and goto BKK embassy for the letter.

You still haven't got this into your head?

 

Also, the appointment system at the Bangkok embassy has limited slots. So IF the rule has really changed (almost definitely it has NOT) then Americans (and some others perhaps) need to plan WELL IN ADVANCE to book a slot. Learning last minute that their usually accepted older letter wouldn't be accepted could be a serious problem. Also the Americans soon going to the Pattaya outreach for letters would be getting worthless letters (unless their new extension is soon), that is, IF the rule has changed.

Bottom line, many expats really NEED to know about this. 

IF immigration really intends to make such a radical major change in local enforcement, one would hope they would make a very public announcement in the local "press" to get the word out as well.

They haven't done that which doesn't prove the change hasn't happened, but again, the overwhelming evidence is pointing to the conclusion that it probably hasn't been changed.

[tropo]

Just now, Thailand J said:

because US embassy outreach is only here in Pattaya every 6 months or so, where the Americans can get the letter in advance. To get a letter that is one month old the Americans have to make an appointment and goto BKK embassy for the letter.

You still haven't got this into your head?

 

I never had in my head. Never had a reason to stick it there as income letters for most people mean a trip to an Embassy in BKK. Allow me to thank you for explaining that there are a small number of people who like to wait for the US Embassy Outreach program to reach Pattaya. If they cut it to 30 days, that won't be too much of a problem then. You can make the trip as most of us do.

[Thailand J]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

I never had in my head. Never had a reason to stick it there as income letters for most people mean a trip to an Embassy in BKK. Allow me to thank you for explaining that there are a small number of people who like to wait for the US Embassy Outreach program to reach Pattaya. If they cut it to 30 days, that won't be too much of a problem then. You can make the trip as most of us do.

If the policy is one month i can assure you we don't need your advice we know what to do. The discussion here is : is it one month or still six month.

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

If the policy is one month i can assure you we don't need your advice we know what to do. The discussion here is : is it one month or still six month.

 

 

Exactly. 

Many people NEED to know.

Then they can make plans well in advance and not get caught out in a difficult surprise.

Like coming in with the usual older letter expecting it to be accepted and then having to stress about getting an embassy appointment slot that might not even exist. 

If people know, they can be proactive.

 

On the other hand, IF the rule has not changed (and there is now very strong evidence that it has not) why shouldn't expats continue to get older letters, continue to take advantage of the convenience of consular visits, IF their letters will still be accepted?

 

It would be silly and wasteful to skip a consular visit and go to Bangkok because of some misinformation RUMOR they read here or got passed as gossip down at the cafe, if you don't NEED to.

 

I realized on the other thread that we were witnessing the birth of a rumor. I never believed the change was real but I accepted it was possible.

That was the point of this thread all along. Gather evidence to either CRUSH that rumor OR confirm it.

 

It's largely crushed, but unfortunately not completely solely based on the one third person report (which is weak but it is something). 

 

That is all. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Jingthing