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Posted
6 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Why would you need guts to close something?  More like need guts to keep it open when the expat population all went home cause the pound crashed. 

You are making a lot of excuses for Stickman's behaviour. Huh, you may be stickman. Anyone that promotes gay sh*t (ladyboy sex) like he has  I think has a great deal invested in that lifestyle. Sold his site (baloney) - he not so long ago threatened to shut his site if people didn't stop sending nasty emails. That is not a statement of an employee. Nothing to do with the drop in the exchange rates. He explained the sale away in a stupid convoluted way that wasn't credible. Ditto  Razzler1973 & Wrecking Country.

 Enough from me. Suffice it to say Stickman has  identity issues to say the least and I don't believe most of what he writes. Now we have live streams that don't support his warped views. Bye now. No further response (for now).

Posted
1 minute ago, Melbun said:

You are making a lot of excuses for Stickman's behaviour. Huh, you may be stickman. Anyone that promotes gay sh*t (ladyboy sex) like he has  I think has a great deal invested in that lifestyle. Sold his site (baloney) - he not so long ago threatened to shut his site if people didn't stop sending nasty emails. That is not a statement of an employee. Nothing to do with the drop in the exchange rates. He explained the sale away in a stupid convoluted way that wasn't credible. Ditto  Razzler1973 & Wrecking Country.

 Enough from me. Suffice it to say Stickman has  identity issues to say the least and I don't believe most of what he writes. Now we have live streams that don't support his warped views. Bye now. No further response (for now).

I can see why Stickman and I may have a different view than you.  You think he, "promotes gay sh*t " I don't think he does because lady boys are not gay.  I know 20 or 30 gay guys in Thailand and none of them has any sexual interest in ladyboys on the other hand I know 20 or 30 straight guys who do. 

 

If you really want a good answer ask your questions on the gay forum.  I'm sure they would be glad to help you understand how gay men feel.  

 

Don't bother me one way or the other.  Like I said before I don't think Stickman has any connection with the site anymore (writing or otherwise) - but that's only my opinion and I have no inside information. 

 

I never read him asking people to stop emailing him but again I'm not an authority and constant reader of his site because I don't really get into ladyboys. 

Posted


 

Quote

Melbun

Seth _ how can buggers going with ladyboys enhance your ability to bonk real girls? doesn't make sense. Since there buggers (true sense of the word) only want lady boys' <deleted>.

 

Hey, nice trick changing what I said to argue with yourself about a point I did not make.
What I wrote" the guys who come to see Ladyboys  are not competing with me by bar-fining the bargirls that I come to see .  At my age that raises my odds in a good way. "
What you implied  by "enhance your ability" does not address the numbers. Those guys and ladyboys are not being replaced by other Thais or Western guys in the same numbers. The Indians are trying to negotiate 1 girl to 10  guys and bring paper cups to split the 1 beer, The Koreans are holding their own, The japanese are being asked ridiculous prices and the Chinese are slowly beginning to get a clue on how to negotiate. 

"Odds" generally concern numbers in comparison, Abilities generally concern attributes "THEY'RE" not the same thing.

  If 7 guys walk into Nana Plaza and 6 of them (3 ladyboy employees and 3 guys) walk out together how does that not raise my odds of walking out of Nana Plaza with the girl I came to see? Have you ever heard of Bisexuality? Have you ever seen a large group of guys exit a 100% girl bar after 15 minutes and then head over to a ladyboy bar for 30 minutes?  Sit on the 2nd floor rail outside and watch what happens all night over and over .

Did you know that "THERE" are 1,800,000 more women than men in Thailand based on this years 69,269,000 total estimate?  Look it up, I'm not exaggerating.     Subtract more men from their column for the gay thais, the ladyboys and married
Thais with non-bargirls as their Mia Noi(girl on the side). Did you know that there are less lesbians and overweight behemoth women in Thailand than the USA where I come from ? My point ? Less men available for the Thai women who are interested in men, means more women available for me at 64 for the prices I paid when I was 40.  Step into Thermaes on Sukhumvit and you'll see wall to wall women waiting to be picked up by a handful of cashed up North Asian customers. I also found a way to benefit from the odds against a Westerner having any luck in that environment. (also note:Ladyboys are not allowed inside Thermaes) .

 

"Marcusarelus" must have been reading my mind about the Macbeth Quote   "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" .I wanted to post exactly the same quote but my battery crapped out on me.

 

Quote

Melbun

As for his "missus" - Judging by his fondness for ladyboys .... well .... are you thinking what I'm thinking ??

You seem to be trying to guide people into "thinking what you're thinking" instead of drawing their own conclusions. So what's going on here , did you have a competing site that failed ? Did he beat you out for some "real" girl that you were both after ? Is it the ten bucks he never paid you back?  I really don't buy all this Ladyboy slander and character assassination as justification for the personal attacks against someone who is not here to give their side of the story.

  I'm not interested in the details of another mans private sex life, where I come from it comes across as a prissie thing for a man to do. I respect the fact that he was able to make something viable out of a simple idea and have it last as long as it did. Beyond that, the original point of my post was to inform people who were unaware of the fact that the Stickman site had returned to it's previous level of operation. If you have something to say to him, say it to him personally. His email address is usually somewhere at the bottom of his web-page.

 

 

 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Seth1a2a said:


 

 

Hey, nice trick changing what I said to argue with yourself about a point I did not make.
What I wrote" the guys who come to see Ladyboys  are not competing with me by bar-fining the bargirls that I come to see .  At my age that raises my odds in a good way. "
What you implied  by "enhance your ability" does not address the numbers. Those guys and ladyboys are not being replaced by other Thais or Western guys in the same numbers. The Indians are trying to negotiate 1 girl to 10  guys and bring paper cups to split the 1 beer, The Koreans are holding their own, The japanese are being asked ridiculous prices and the Chinese are slowly beginning to get a clue on how to negotiate. 

"Odds" generally concern numbers in comparison, Abilities generally concern attributes "THEY'RE" not the same thing.

  If 7 guys walk into Nana Plaza and 6 of them (3 ladyboy employees and 3 guys) walk out together how does that not raise my odds of walking out of Nana Plaza with the girl I came to see? Have you ever heard of Bisexuality? Have you ever seen a large group of guys exit a 100% girl bar after 15 minutes and then head over to a ladyboy bar for 30 minutes?  Sit on the 2nd floor rail outside and watch what happens all night over and over .

Did you know that "THERE" are 1,800,000 more women than men in Thailand based on this years 69,269,000 total estimate?  Look it up, I'm not exaggerating.     Subtract more men from their column for the gay thais, the ladyboys and married
Thais with non-bargirls as their Mia Noi(girl on the side). Did you know that there are less lesbians and overweight behemoth women in Thailand than the USA where I come from ? My point ? Less men available for the Thai women who are interested in men, means more women available for me at 64 for the prices I paid when I was 40.  Step into Thermaes on Sukhumvit and you'll see wall to wall women waiting to be picked up by a handful of cashed up North Asian customers. I also found a way to benefit from the odds against a Westerner having any luck in that environment. (also note:Ladyboys are not allowed inside Thermaes) .

 

"Marcusarelus" must have been reading my mind about the Macbeth Quote   "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" .I wanted to post exactly the same quote but my battery crapped out on me.

 

You seem to be trying to guide people into "thinking what you're thinking" instead of drawing their own conclusions. So what's going on here , did you have a competing site that failed ? Did he beat you out for some "real" girl that you were both after ? Is it the ten bucks he never paid you back?  I really don't buy all this Ladyboy slander and character assassination as justification for the personal attacks against someone who is not here to give their side of the story.

  I'm not interested in the details of another mans private sex life, where I come from it comes across as a prissie thing for a man to do. I respect the fact that he was able to make something viable out of a simple idea and have it last as long as it did. Beyond that, the original point of my post was to inform people who were unaware of the fact that the Stickman site had returned to it's previous level of operation. If you have something to say to him, say it to him personally. His email address is usually somewhere at the bottom of his web-page.

 

 

 

Last reply: It's an open forum - warts and all. You definitely utter a lot of verbal diarrhoea. Instead of being the defender of stickman go somewhere else if you don't like what I write :<(

Posted

Why would anyone "miss" him? He's been back to his old column-writing for months now. Money grubbers gotta money grub, shills gotta shill.

Posted
On 2/26/2019 at 5:29 PM, Thainess said:

There are many other countries with much lower costs of living and a less oppressive climate with less pollution where there are much more beautiful girls (not plain-Jane Thais without any discernible chest and buttocks) which aren't covered in tattoos and have a much better attitude than Thais, not simply after your money. These countries are not in southeast Asia. Figure out for yourself where I mean. If you want girls without buttocks/breasts who will rip you off for your last cent, stay in Thailand. If not, look elsewhere for curvaceous girls with a good attitude.

Thanks for the tip off - heading directly to Eastern Europe / Russia / South America / India / South Asia / Africa the very second I decode your message. 

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Posted
On 2/28/2019 at 12:51 PM, Melbun said:

You are making a lot of excuses for Stickman's behaviour. Huh, you may be stickman. Anyone that promotes gay sh*t (ladyboy sex) like he has  I think has a great deal invested in that lifestyle.

Stickman does have something invested, but only from the standpoint that that's where the money is. He's no more into ladyboys than the management of Nana Plaza, who've allowed an increased number of ladyboy bars simply because they're better run and bring in more revenue. Many bars (Crazy House in Soi Cowboy for example, hugely successful and 100% girls dancing) choose to employ ladyboys as part of their management team. 

 

If you'd lived in Bangkok for any number of years you'd realise Stickman is somewhat well known and recognised around the nightlife scene, and any tittle tattle about him being into ladyboys would have been out in the open many years ago. Wiser to stop flogging this dead horse - your comments betray your own prejudice and little more. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Thanks for the tip off - heading directly to Eastern Europe / Russia / South America / India / South Asia / Africa the very second I decode your message. 

Yeh me too - scrub India, Africa, South Asia... ahh haaa !! 

 

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Stickman does have something invested, but only from the standpoint that that's where the money is. He's no more into ladyboys than the management of Nana Plaza, who've allowed an increased number of ladyboy bars simply because they're better run and bring in more revenue. Many bars (Crazy House in Soi Cowboy for example, hugely successful and 100% girls dancing) choose to employ ladyboys as part of their management team. 

 

If you'd lived in Bangkok for any number of years you'd realise Stickman is somewhat well known and recognised around the nightlife scene, and any tittle tattle about him being into ladyboys would have been out in the open many years ago. Wiser to stop flogging this dead horse - your comments betray your own prejudice and little more. 

Oh no! Another Stickman supporter. Trying to protect the man's  self sullied image. Too many people have noticed his predilection to ladyboys. Not only I. If he publishes so much about them and even advises to try them - then he is trying to influence people to "do as I have done".

Question: How do you know he is not into ladyboys - are you Stickman? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - It's a DUCK.

Posted

if i recall correctly, the story stickman gave on the sale was the site was sold and the new owners were paying him to continue to write his weekly column.  at some point after the sale, the new owners stopped paying him so he stopped writing the column.  if that is true, one might surmise the new owners realized the site was not worth much at all w/o the weekly column so they went back to him and are now paying him to write the column again.  and hopefully the new owners are receiving more advertising revenue than the salary they are paying to stickman.

Posted
29 minutes ago, buick said:

if i recall correctly, the story stickman gave on the sale was the site was sold and the new owners were paying him to continue to write his weekly column.  at some point after the sale, the new owners stopped paying him so he stopped writing the column.  if that is true, one might surmise the new owners realized the site was not worth much at all w/o the weekly column so they went back to him and are now paying him to write the column again.  and hopefully the new owners are receiving more advertising revenue than the salary they are paying to stickman.

Yeh Yeh - The whole sage sounds ridiculous. No one sells something, if it is attracting lots of revenue. So if stick sold it - it was a dead or dying duck at some stage. A business man/woman does lots of investigation before outlaying lots of cash. And a sensible person doesn't buy a dying duck. Like I have said before . I don't believe Sticks version of this sale. Right - he sold a dying duck to some sucker, then said sucker (who the hell knows this mysterious buyer) keeps Stick on to continue on a dead site. Then said investor runs out of cash. It's all BS. More likely Stick saw the spectre of retirement and went back to boring NZ to get a real job and start saving for retirement. He kept the reader submission going, as it was no commitment and held on to the site should he be able to capitalise on it - at some later date. Which he now has done.

 

A pop group "the knickerbockers" says it all in there lyrics "lies, lies".

 

"Lies, lies, you're tellin' me that you'll be true
Lies, lies - That's all I ever get from you".

 

That's all from me folks.

You believe what you want.
 

Posted
3 hours ago, Melbun said:

How do you know he is not into ladyboys - are you Stickman?

Sorry, I already stood up when they asked for Spartacus. But go on asking and you might get a crowd to cooperate.

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Posted
1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

Sorry, I already stood up when they asked for Spartacus. But go on asking and you might get a crowd to cooperate.

Ummm too deep for me at this time of the night. Advice: don't write poetry. It'll never sell :<(   .......... It's now time for some Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz's. Yawn. Everyone!  my parting comment. POQ&DCB

Posted
3 hours ago, Melbun said:

Yeh Yeh - The whole sage sounds ridiculous. No one sells something, if it is attracting lots of revenue. So if stick sold it - it was a dead or dying duck at some stage. A business man/woman does lots of investigation before outlaying lots of cash. And a sensible person doesn't buy a dying duck. Like I have said before . I don't believe Sticks version of this sale. Right - he sold a dying duck to some sucker, then said sucker (who the hell knows this mysterious buyer) keeps Stick on to continue on a dead site. Then said investor runs out of cash. It's all BS. More likely Stick saw the spectre of retirement and went back to boring NZ to get a real job and start saving for retirement. He kept the reader submission going, as it was no commitment and held on to the site should he be able to capitalise on it - at some later date. Which he now has done.

 

A pop group "the knickerbockers" says it all in there lyrics "lies, lies".

 

"Lies, lies, you're tellin' me that you'll be true
Lies, lies - That's all I ever get from you".

 

That's all from me folks.

You believe what you want.
 

Don't think you know much about selling websites in Thailand.  Check the sale recently of a site dealing with visa information.  ????

Posted
6 hours ago, Melbun said:

Yeh me too - scrub India, Africa, South Asia... ahh haaa !! 

 

Oh no! Another Stickman supporter. Trying to protect the man's  self sullied image. Too many people have noticed his predilection to ladyboys. Not only I. If he publishes so much about them and even advises to try them - then he is trying to influence people to "do as I have done".

Question: How do you know he is not into ladyboys - are you Stickman? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - It's a DUCK.

I know Stickman and I like ladyboys.  He spoke to me in a very critical/condescending, negative manner because I like ladyboys.  That's how I know he is not into ladyboys.  He is basically a typical NZ country boy type.

Posted
17 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

ah stickman, the promoter and condoner of the sex industry. his mother, and other female members of his family, must be so proud of him.

Probably a lot easier for Stick to explain to his mom than what the Pope or his minions in Australia have to talk to mom about.  I don't think Stick did anything illegal so why would mom care?     

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 3/22/2019 at 9:12 AM, NCFC said:

I can see Stick ending up like Bernard Trink, a relic of a previous age, trapped in Thailand, forgotten, and no place to call home. He needs to wise up and go home.

He is home, after just popping over here for a two week visit this month. Trink incidentally is still gainfully employed by the Bangkok Post, albeit now submitting book reviews once a week rather than bar reviews. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 3/22/2019 at 1:12 PM, NCFC said:

I was a regular reader and contributor to Stickman up until the time he said he was returning to NZ. What I particularly liked about his site was that he was an observer of all things Thai and not a participant. So sex trip reports were not really his thing and the site was better for it. The Reader's Submissions were a lively discussion point with quite a few interesting characters and his opening pieces were often thoughtful.

 

But by the time he was thinking of heading back to NZ, he had become stale and stuck in a rut, travelling between BKK and Pattaya, and hardly anything about the rest of Thailand. That began to reflect in his opening pieces which started to duplicate the same old stuff, and it all became very stale. And when he was mulling over the prospects of quitting and selling up, many of his long-term submission writers quit sending stuff in and asked for their back catalogue to be removed because they guessed that the incoming owner would try to monetize all those submissions. Result was the submissions just felt flat.

 

When Stickman eventually announced he was leaving Thailand, I emailed him to say that he was making the right decision. The profile of visitors to Thailand was changing, his natural audience was decreasing in number, social media was replacing the old-style website and Thailand itself was changing, so it was a good time for him to get out while he was relatively young and still had time to establish himself in NZ.

 

His website went downhill fast when he was back in his home country. His opening pieces were about New Zealand which he augmented with postcard-pretty pictures of NZ landscapes. What this had to do with Bangkok nightlife, I have no idea. He should have quit as he had nothing to say and no one was listening anymore.

 

So now the website is back and Stickman is a presence in Bangkok once more, though I can't tell whether this is a permanent return or whether he is just flitting between the two countries because he is writing pieces where he puts himself in both locations, But sadly his resurrected website is nothing like it used to be. Now he is monetizing it, and in so doing he is no longer a detached observer but an active participant. He has become, as a matter of fact, a pimp. His site is now advertising prostitutes for sale, and there are all the bikin shots for the punters delight. In order to make money he got down in the gutter with the people that he used to write about from a distance. And most of what he used to say was critical. Not any more.

 

I miss the old stickman web site as it had some good things going for it. But it only worked for a specific time and place. Both that time and place are gone and the new stick is something cruder and uglier. I've met Stickman and found him to be an intelligent well-balanced guy. I'm really surprised he hasn't figured out that life has moved on and the Stickman years of the Thailand that he described are drawing to a close. I can see Stick ending up like Bernard Trink, a relic of a previous age, trapped in Thailand, forgotten, and no place to call home. He needs to wise up and go home.

NCFC - I agree with some things you say. But the Stickman's site has always been for the benefit of punters. It's always been a male red light oriented site. As for there being more things in Thailand other than the needs of punters - well, yes of course. But who wants Stickman's Bangkok to be a travel web site. Nobody. As for Stickman being detached from the debauchery. Well who knows. There has been a great deal of promotion of gay ladyboy sex on his site. I particularly found that offensive. I do agree that the Stickman's site is now largely dead with social media like YouTube showing the reality on site. And not being filtered through what Stickman wants us to believe. He does sling a lot of bulls**t. Yes, he should leave the reader submissions going and make a permanent disappearing act and co-habitate with the sheep in NZ. His era is over. But alas, this joker has a very thick skin and won't go - especially if there is the smell of money.

Posted
15 hours ago, Melbun said:

NCFC - I agree with some things you say. But the Stickman's site has always been for the benefit of punters. It's always been a male red light oriented site. As for there being more things in Thailand other than the needs of punters - well, yes of course. But who wants Stickman's Bangkok to be a travel web site. Nobody. As for Stickman being detached from the debauchery. Well who knows. There has been a great deal of promotion of gay ladyboy sex on his site. I particularly found that offensive. I do agree that the Stickman's site is now largely dead with social media like YouTube showing the reality on site. And not being filtered through what Stickman wants us to believe. He does sling a lot of bulls**t. Yes, he should leave the reader submissions going and make a permanent disappearing act and co-habitate with the sheep in NZ. His era is over. But alas, this joker has a very thick skin and won't go - especially if there is the smell of money.

OH BTW _ I've said it before and I'll say it again. What sale of Stickmans site. That was a load of bull dust . As far as I'm concerned. Just a contrivance by Stickman to put his site on hold shoud he like to return some day. As if !! What nut case would have bought his failing web site. All baloney.

Posted
8 hours ago, Puwa said:

Was never a Stickman fan. Back in the early 90s, Steve Rosse had a good regular column in The Nation called "The Rock." https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/SteveRosse

Steve Rosse? Unbelievably talented writer. Have you read his pieces in Stickman's reader section? There were about a dozen toward the end, each one a masterclass in writing.

 

What Stick should do is bring Steve over from the US as an editor/writer. If Steve did daily pieces on life here, in general not just the sex industry, Stick's readership would go through the roof.

 

Heck, TV could bring him in too in some capacity. Bkk and we expats deserve our own raconteur.

Posted
10 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Steve Rosse? Unbelievably talented writer. Have you read his pieces in Stickman's reader section? There were about a dozen toward the end, each one a masterclass in writing.

 

What Stick should do is bring Steve over from the US as an editor/writer. If Steve did daily pieces on life here, in general not just the sex industry, Stick's readership would go through the roof.

 

Heck, TV could bring him in too in some capacity. Bkk and we expats deserve our own raconteur.

B.S - Steve Rosse ?? A legend in his own mind - Just like Stickman. A lot of his stuff was absolute drivel. He only posted on Stickman's because he got free advertising. When that stopped he threw tantrums. You are Steve Rosse of his partner. OR his/her PR officer. I'm glad Rosse stopped writing. What absolute sh*t that stuff was. Now Dana was a real talent.

Posted
31 minutes ago, Melbun said:

B.S - Steve Rosse ?? A legend in his own mind - Just like Stickman. A lot of his stuff was absolute drivel. He only posted on Stickman's because he got free advertising. When that stopped he threw tantrums. You are Steve Rosse of his partner. OR his/her PR officer. I'm glad Rosse stopped writing. What absolute sh*t that stuff was. Now Dana was a real talent.

Dana was tolerable, part hack, part jackass, like most other regular contributors (I would include myself in this category though I wrote infrequently). I rarely made it more than halfway through his pieces before being distracted by something on the telly.

 

Steve on the other hand was unputdownable, the rightful heir to Trink as chronicler of this great city (and of more than just the bargirl-monger spectrum), if only he could get his act together (drugs?) and ass over here.

Posted
11 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Dana was tolerable, part hack, part jackass, like most other regular contributors (I would include myself in this category though I wrote infrequently). I rarely made it more than halfway through his pieces before being distracted by something on the telly.

 

Steve on the other hand was unputdownable, the rightful heir to Trink as chronicler of this great city (and of more than just the bargirl-monger spectrum), if only he could get his act together (drugs?) and ass over here.

I found most of Rosse's stuff EASILY putdownable. I must confess 2 or 3 were good. But most "fill in" drivel to keep getting free advertising on Stickman's. Now Dana had wit and a keen sense of humour (wasn't interested in his ladyboy exploits). I'm not into giving it to a man up the a***. Also he had some good ideas and insights. Don't know where you're coming from - you only read Stickman's re red light district. Hey - once you see the temples etc - the real interest for men IS bargirl - monger dynamics.

Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Melbun said:

I found most of Rosse's stuff EASILY putdownable. I must confess 2 or 3 were good. But most "fill in" drivel to keep getting free advertising on Stickman's. Now Dana had wit and a keen sense of humour (wasn't interested in his ladyboy exploits). I'm not into giving it to a man up the a***. Also he had some good ideas and insights. Don't know where you're coming from - you only read Stickman's re red light district. Hey - once you see the temples etc - the real interest for men IS bargirl - monger dynamics.

It saddens me to do so but I must insist that as my command of the English language (sparkling evincing an extensive vocabulary) seems to far exceed what I see of yours (clumsy with a disquieting whiff of the trailer park) my opinion of writers of English must take precedence.

 

Therefore, I win, Dana sucks and Steve Rosse is hereby declared the greatest of Stickman contributors. Any further dispute on your part, Melbun, and you will be reported to the NCPO for uppity behavior.

Edited by Bang Bang
Posted
41 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

It saddens me to do so but I must insist that as my command of the English language (sparkling evincing an extensive vocabulary) seems to far exceed what I see of yours (clumsy with a disquieting whiff of the trailer park) my opinion of writers of English must take precedence.

 

Therefore, I win, Dana sucks and Steve Rosse is hereby declared the greatest of Stickman contributors. Any further dispute on your part, Melbun, and you will be reported to the NCPO for uppity behavior.

Ahhh Hahah !! You are indeed Rosse. Go home Rosse (keep your drivel to yourself). Judging by your assertion of your exquisite command of the English language - you also fall in the category of "legend in your own mind" Good !! report me.

Posted
1 minute ago, Melbun said:

You are indeed Rosse.

You have paid me the greatest compliment. I thank you. If only I could spin a yarn as well as Steve.

 

I do consider myself a fairly imaginative humorist though. But short sprints are all I have been able to manage thus far. Even a 4 or 5 page story, which Steve so effortlessly writes, causes me to run out of breath.

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