In surprise summit concession, Trump says he will halt Korea war games

[Hummin]

39 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Would you like to see this peace agreement fail , just to see Donald fail ?

Would you rather have hostilities, confrontation and possibly a war , just to get a victory about a Trump failure ?

I was just thinking about Donald terminating the Iran deal, and then go ahead and make this deal? What is the difference, and why is this more valid than the Iran deal? Not just a quote to you Sanemax, but an open question for any Donald supporters, or supporter of this deal!

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I was just thinking about Donald terminating the Iran deal, and then go ahead and make this deal? What is the difference, and why is this more valid than the Iran deal? Not just a quote to you Sanemax, but an open question for any Donald supporters, or supporter of this deal!

The Iran deal is a separate issue and its off topic .

Two different situations and incomparable 

This thread and discussion is about Trump and Kim

[Rarebear]

25 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No other President would agree to meet a Kim for a preliminary negotiation in which nothing definitive was arrived at. Trump is now on the electoral hook to spin whatever follows as a success. Kim has no electorate to worry about. The LA times had a report that the North Koreans balked at completing it by 2020 which was requested by Trump for electoral reasons. Advantage Kim.

 

And how do you know that these negotiations will ultimately succeed?

Would provide documentation of your statement, "No other President would agree to meet a Kim for a preliminary negotiation in which nothing definitive was arrived at."  Or tell the truth that you made it up because it sounded plausible. 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The Iran deal is a separate issue and its off topic .

Two different situations and incomparable 

This thread and discussion is about Trump and Kim

It proves he can terminate an international accepted deal with Iran, just by himselves, against all other allies advises, and so far just aggreed to continue talks with Kim about peace. Nothing more is gained so far, exept show each other respect, cancel an military exercise in the area, and so on! China moved some artillery as well as I understand. 

 

So we have to wait and see, it is just a tempory delay of whats have to come. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

It proves he can terminate an international accepted deal with Iran, just by himselves, against all other allies advises, and so far just aggreed to continue talks with Kim about peace. Nothing more is gained so far, exept show each other respect, cancel an military exercise in the area, and so on! China moved some artillery as well as I understand. 

 

So we have to wait and see, it is just a tempory delay of whats have to come. 

Yes, this was just a first meeting between Kim and Trump and in future.........................Ive wrote this so many times,I just cannot be bother to write the rest of it again

[zydeco]

Not only should we, the US, stop the silly expenses associated with all these war games but also pull our troops out of South Korea. South Korea outmans, outguns, and has an economy with worldwide impact. No need for US troops or money.

[Rarebear]

11 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Not only should we, the US, stop the silly expenses associated with all these war games but also pull our troops out of South Korea. South Korea outmans, outguns, and has an economy with worldwide impact. No need for US troops or money.

N Korea outmans out guns and outspends well you can look at it.  Troops 2 million to 600,000.  Budget 40 billion to ten billion.  Tanks 6000 to 2000.  http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_North_Korea_vs_South_Korea

Edited June 13, 2018 by Rarebear

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, Rarebear said:

N Korea outmans out guns and well you can look at it.  2 million to 600,000.  40 billion to ten billion.  tanks 6000 to 2000.  http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_North_Korea_vs_South_Korea

There are 24 million North Koreans, most of them starving, and 49 million South Koreans. If Korea has a smaller army, it's because it chooses to do so and rely on the US instead.  Same for investment in self defense, although S. Korea has American equipment that will blow all those North Korean tanks off the battlefield in ten minutes.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Would you like to see this peace agreement fail , just to see Donald fail ?

Would you rather have hostilities, confrontation and possibly a war , just to get a victory about a Trump failure ?

And are you so desperate to defend Trump that you can’t see that he is obviously being played by NK? 

As per one of my previous posts, this “agreement” from NK is no less then it’s 20th 'agreement' to halt it's nuclear ambitions. With such an awful track history of broken promises, why then would anyone in their right mind ever believe a word that comes out of this dictators mouth? He is obviously playing a president desperate for a PR victory to get an easing of sanctions and to feed his people (who might rise up if the only other option was starvation). Little Rocket Man will wax lyrical about peace and getting rid of his nukes just long enough to get what he wants and then it's straight back to business as normal. He will never give up his nukes as he knows it's the only thing keeping him in the game. Anyone with half a modicum of sense would understand this and just not play him at his game. However, we all know that Trump swapped out his common sense for more ego a long time ago.  

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, aircooledflat4 said:

. It’s about time Sth Korea and Japan pony up their own defence resources and capabilities.

Trump doesn't count various forms of compensation from the host countries, from rent-free real estate where the bases are located to actual cash payments meant to offset U.S. costs.

Five years ago, Hillary Clinton reached one of the least-noticed diplomatic agreements of her tenure as secretary of State — a deal obligating Japan to continue paying nearly $2 billion a year to help defray the cost of U.S. troops stationed on its territory.

The Pentagon doesn't provide an accounting and the annual Defense Department report tallying foreign contributions was halted in 2004.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-snap-story.html

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Not only should we, the US, stop the silly expenses associated with all these war games but also pull our troops out of South Korea. South Korea outmans, outguns, and has an economy with worldwide impact. No need for US troops or money.

Trump does want to pull US Troops out of Korea -however, that will not happen for a long time- the US has moved further South of Seoul to a newly built base- funded by the Koreans- several billions of dollars and the US-South Korea Command is integrated.

 

However, the ultimate goal will be the removal of US Troops and most likely relocation to either Japan; Singapore or Vietnam. Denuclearization not only means Kim gives up his nuclear weapons but that the South is also free from America's nuclear weapons. However, all of this is years down the road. I doubt that the full plan can be implement by 2020.  An interim plan will most likely take place

 

A peace treaty ending the Korean war- signed by the US; N and  S Korea as well as China. A huge ceremony in Panmunjon at the dividing line attended by all the participants in the Korean War to include Thailand.  A visit by Trump to N Korea and then Kim to America.

 

At some point N Korea will make a gesture to Japan releasing info on the kidnapped Japanese citizens.

 

Then comes a signing ceremony at some point in which the protocols for full denuclearization on the peninsula as well as the inspections

 

At some point N and S Korea agree to restart family reunions and reopen the S Korean factories in the North.  A possible opening of the Demilitarized  border takes place- removing all military.

 

Then the US starts slowly removing it's military forces and N and S Korea begin talks about  reunification or confederations.

 

All of this is hugely complex but a lot better than huge nuclear armies fighting it out.

 

Trump has taken a real chance on this opening and meeting with Kim- I'm not saying he deserves a Nobel Prize yet  but let's give him kudos for what he is trying to do.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

if it happens, will have been vetted by both the State and Defense departments.

What about South Korea who was apparently not been told by Trump that he was willing to withdraw the annual military defense exercises? They are not war games.

And while the US Pentagon implied they knew Trump was going to offer withdrawal during the summit, they subsequently replied that they had to review the meaning and implications of the withdrawal. If they were asked their advice by Trump beforehand, why now such a review? Well, maybe they weren't involved in Trump's decision. But now the Pentagon can't say anything negatively in public as that would be critical of the commander-in-chief, aka insubordination.

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

And are you so desperate to defend Trump that you can’t see that he is obviously being played by NK? 

As per one of my previous posts, this “agreement” from NK is no less then it’s 20th 'agreement' to halt it's nuclear ambitions. With such an awful track history of broken promises, why then would anyone in their right mind ever believe a word that comes out of this dictators mouth? He is obviously playing a president desperate for a PR victory to get an easing of sanctions and to feed his people (who might rise up if the only other option was starvation). Little Rocket Man will wax lyrical about peace and getting rid of his nukes just long enough to get what he wants and then it's straight back to business as normal. He will never give up his nukes as he knows it's the only thing keeping him in the game. Anyone with half a modicum of sense would understand this and just not play him at his game. However, we all know that Trump swapped out his common sense for more ego a long time ago.  

I wasnt Kim who made and broke those previous agreements .

I believe that Kim is sincere about the new agreements .

[bristolboy]

32 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

N Korea outmans out guns and outspends well you can look at it.  Troops 2 million to 600,000.  Budget 40 billion to ten billion.  Tanks 6000 to 2000.  http://armedforces.eu/compare/country_North_Korea_vs_South_Korea

No. According to your link South Korea spends 36.8 billion to North Korea's 15 billion. And South Korea can easily increase how much it spends since it's only 2.7 percent of GDP. North Korea spends 20.8 percent of its GDP. And troop numbers mean nothing by themselves, First off, malnutrition is common among North Korean troops. And they are very poorly equipped compared to South Koran troops. And the North Korean Air Force is a joke. Old outdated jets. South Korea would rule the skies from day one.

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I wasnt Kim who made and broke those previous agreements .

I believe that Kim is sincere about the new agreements .

Oh really.

Kim Jong Un came to power in 2011; 4 of the 20 'agreements' were made when he was in charge and he has backed out of every single one of them. But hey obviously it's all different now since he is now negotiating with the great deal maker Trump himself. You my friend are deluding yourself and are grasping at any straw that gives Trump a semblance of a win. The only thing Trump has managed to do is hand KJU a massive PR victory and a golden opportunity to appease his ever frustrated benefactor China who is the real power behind this stunt.

[lovelomsak]

Trump says maybe will stop war games. Kim says maybe will stop nuclear tests. So what they say maybe what does that mean. Nothing absolutely nothing. KIm says,Trump says both can go back on what they said if they do not get what they want. Just part and parcel of dealing with each other.

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Oh really.

Kim Jong Un came to power in 2011; 4 of the 20 'agreements' were made when he was in charge and he has backed out of every single one of them. .

I wasnt aware of this , could you give details of those previous agreements between Kim and the USA .

[johnnybangkok]

Just now, sanemax said:

I wasnt aware of this , could you give details of those previous agreements between Kim and the USA .

google is your friend,

[buick]

why would halting the war games during peace negotiations be considered a 'surprise concession' ?  the surprise would be if they continued the war games during the peace negotiations.

[Norrad]

Kim's face was absolutely priceless 555

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Norrad

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

google is your friend,

Here we go again : 

Make a statement , cannot back it up, tell the other person to google it and after that person keeps asking for a link, say.............Ive already posted it a few pages back .

   I have played that game too often, either you post a link or what you said isnt true

[Rarebear]

25 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No. According to your link South Korea spends 36.8 billion to North Korea's 15 billion. And South Korea can easily increase how much it spends since it's only 2.7 percent of GDP. North Korea spends 20.8 percent of its GDP. And troop numbers mean nothing by themselves, First off, malnutrition is common among North Korean troops. And they are very poorly equipped compared to South Koran troops. And the North Korean Air Force is a joke. Old outdated jets. South Korea would rule the skies from day one.

You are correct I read it wrong.  Looking at the red and assumed NK. 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Donald Trump has failed at many things but his meeting with Kim is not one of them.  NKorea has already released 3 American 'hostages';  agreed publicly to denuclearization; and  publicly shut down its nuclear test site-  of course Trump would order ceasing military exercises as a show of good faith. No surprise to anyone. The Pentagon; State Department and most analysts could see this coming.

 

Now the devil is in the details. I expect the next step will be a formal meeting between Kim; Trump and all the allied powers who fought in the Korean War to sign a document formally ending the war.  This will take place at Pannmunjon in a huge ceremony probably  with a Trump visit to NKorea and a Kim visit to the US.

 

Negotiations will continue over who takes control of NK's nuclear armaments and when the US will leave SKorea and pull it's troops off the peninsula. Then there is the question of inspections.   The final step will be the reunification of Korea which will take decades to occur.

 

As much as I dislike Trump and his policies- he must be given credit for this. No other President has made this happen- but Trump did.

Prisoners, yes, agreed to denuclearisation, no and the testsite was already shut down 2 months ago due to an explosion on their last test.

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Here we go again : 

Make a statement , cannot back it up, tell the other person to google it and after that person keeps asking for a link, say.............Ive already posted it a few pages back .

   I have played that game too often, either you post a link or what you said isnt true

Jezus you are a baby.

Here https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/world/asia/us-says-north-korea-agrees-to-curb-nuclear-work.html

and again in 2015 - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/world/asia/kim-jong-un-says-norths-military-muscle-made-korean-deal-possible.html

2016 - https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/north-korea-said-its-willing-to-talk-denuclearization-but-no-one-notice.

There was one done in 2011 but it was started by his dad and dropped by KJU when he assumed power so i suppose you could argue that it wasn't his agreement. I think you get the point though.

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I wasnt aware of this , could you give details of those previous agreements between Kim and the USA .

Have been posted already here on TVF a few hours ago.

[Ron19]

Two troll/flame posts have been removed.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

J- https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/world/asia/kim-jong-un-says-norths-military-muscle-made-korean-deal-possible.html

 

That was a deal between NK & SK to diffuse tensions on their border, when gunfire was exchanged , and NK stuck to that deal .

  That wasnt a deal between the USA & NK 

[sirineou]

 Trump is an inarticulate oaf!

He should have said, we will suspend military exercises as a sign of good faith, (not war games) and we will see how it goes. I  NK holds their end  military exercises will be unnecessary and the money spend could be put to better use, If  NK does not perform, we can always resume them.

 

Who can argue with that?

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 

2016 - https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/north-korea-said-its-willing-to-talk-denuclearization-but-no-one-notice.

 

That is a blog, that isnt a new source and it also talking about a deal between Nk and SK from 1992

[johnnybangkok]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That was a deal between NK & SK to diffuse tensions on their border, when gunfire was exchanged , and NK stuck to that deal .

  That wasnt a deal between the USA & NK 

I never said anything about it just being the USA (there are after all other countries in the world) but I noticed that you conveniently just sidestep the 2012 agreement which was with the US and which was promptly broke one year later once he got what he needed in the form of US aid.

Promising and then breaking promises is a well trodden path for NK so why on earth do you think this will be any different? There is a reason why no other american president has ever met with a NK leader as they all realised that you simply can't trust a single word that comes out of any of their mouths and if you do you are being naive at best, downright stupid at worst.