Building And Plumbing Problems In Thailand

[xerostar]

I was a spectator while a a small outhouse building (shop/kitchen) was constructed at my wife’s family home in Nahkon Sawan.

The concrete main stanchions were about 100mm x 100mm with an enlarged base 200mm x 200mm.

These were set in clay and correctly aligned for height.

The “squareness” was decided using a spare bathroom tile which was aligned with the string lines.

I noted this was not checked by diagonal measurements.

During the process of building the roof structure with associated movement of unsecured elements, one of the stanchions has obviously sunken by about 3cm. This was not noticed until the project was completed, leaving the front gutter line looking somewhat less than horizontal and out of alignment with the rear gutter line. Cladding of the outer waist-height wall proved difficult in that the sheets would not line up correctly, leaving a step-like join between each sheet.

Plumbing I’ve seen in Thailand (I can already hear readers saying “tell me about it!”)

Nobody seems to be aware of the need (or reason) for using p-traps on any of the sinks or floor waste outlets. Consequently foul or musty odours are often present in the bathrooms, despite thorough cleaning of all internal surfaces. The only solution at our place was to keep a plug firmly in place while not in use.

One shudders at the thought of installing an exhaust fan in such rooms. (see exhaust fans below)

The external waste pipes were all horizontal at ground level and blockages were apparent.

A long piece of bamboo was kept handy and occasionally used by a family member to ream out the pipes when required! Of course the pipes simply ended in a roadside culvert.

To improve on basic hygiene at the family home, I decided to install a hand basin in the bathroom/toilet and a suitable basin and fittings were purchased. There was only one design of wall basin available and this contained an inbuilt overflow.

This is not my favourite type of basin due to the inability to clean the overflow canal properly.

An overflow is obviously irrelevant in Thailand where flooding of bathrooms is not considered a problem but a daily occurrence. The floor waste drain takes care of that anyway.

Naturally we also purchased a p-trap for the basin.

There was only one basic type of p-trap available although it was available in a plastic “pseudo chrome” or a thin nickel-plated brass construction.

The one we purchased was the brass type. It came with matching basin outlet fittings.

We left the job of installation to a local worker as I had to return to Oz at the time.

Upon our return, we found the basin to be loose on the wall and the p-trap simply emptied its contents against the tiled wall. The waste water drained to the shower outlet a meter or so away from the basin.

(A German neighbour said he experienced a similar problem. After he gave strict instructions that the outlet of the p-trap must go through the wall, the installer had followed his instructions and had a downpipe outside the wall and the lower end of the pipe led back into the bathroom at floor level!)

Anyway, the p-trap was loose and the central securing screw had rusted badly after 4 months.

The installer could see no need to make another hole in the wall I guess.

I removed the p-trap and purchased a new basin outlet. I removed the basin from the wall.

It sits in two aluminium brackets that are secured to the wall. The worker had used large nails to secure the alloy brackets and they had worked loose. He had used a cement filler to try and take up the slack between the basin and tiled wall. I removed all the cement and the nails. I drilled suitable bolt holes through the 100mm single cement brick wall. I had to use mild-steel bolts because stainless steel were not available. When I attempted to tighten the wall brackets, the basin simply slipped higher and higher and would not firm-up against the wall. I noticed that the parts of the basin that were in contact with the alloy brackets were glazed and tapered (V-shaped cross section) and the wall had glazed tiles. I used an angle grinder to remove the glaze from the wall tiles and the parts of the basin that contacted the alloy brackets.

When I tightened the bolts holding the brackets the basin finally sat firm and secure.

I filled the upper contact points with silicone to prevent water leaking behind the basin (onto my mild steel bolts!)

Fitting the new basin outlet was even more frustrating. The upper “wheel-shaped” part forms a grate with a central hole for the securing screw. This is fitted in the basin outlet hole. I asked for a stainless steel screw but that was not available (no have ). Underneath the basin, a sort of rubber o-ring is supplied that is supposed to fit against the porcelain and this is followed by another “wheel” shaped thin brass plate with a central thread for the securing screw and an outer threaded rim section that forms the connection to the p-trap. As I tightened the screw, the whole contraption slipped sideways, leaving the lower threaded p-trap connection askew by 5 degrees or more. Further tightening simply squashed the flimsy o-ring so it popped out on one side. The basin was not a precision casting, so it did not allow for any form of self-centring of the outlet mechanism. Eventually, I discarded the o-ring and placed a layer of self-curing silicone to take up the uneven space, while holding the brass section as near to central as possible.

I have fitted a few basin outlets in Australia and never experienced such problems because the whole concept has been simplified.

It’s hard to imagine why this antiquated system has remained and not been replaced by fittings similar to those used in Oz.

I am considering building a house in Thailand and I need to know where I can buy Australian fittings (or their equivalent)

Otherwise I will import all the plumbing gear I need.

Generally speaking one is surprised by the low price of hardware in Thailand and sometimes the quality is reasonable, if not well made, however I have more often been surprised at the extremely poor quality of items. I can only describe some items as of "toy-quality". The claw hammer I purchase began to deform at first use – the head was made of mild (untempered) steel! The claws actually bent when I tried to remove a large stubborn nail.

I have taken samples of the commonly used plumbing pipes with me back to Australia to see if there are any common sizes that can be found. Also to see if an Australian basin outlet will fit a Thai-made basin.

Another problem I found: Cutting holes in single layer cement brick walls.

I used a small diameter masonry drill to make an outline of the hole needed. A few blows with a cold chisel and hammer to remove the encircled core, caused unsightly cracks to appear in the cement rendering. I suspect the old mortar bond was not very strong. The cement bricks on the other hand were as hard as nails. A suitable diamond hole -saw would have made life easier but you guessed it, (no have )

Exhaust fans

I found these to be rather complex (and expensive) in comparison to the average bathroom exhaust fan that you can buy in Oz.

I decided against fitting one while the waste plumbing has no p-traps.

The small bathroom windows were left open to get some ventilation, but until we get fly-wire fitted, we have a problem with mosquitos.

That's my first job on the list when we go over next time. So ususally the bathroom was like a sauna, with musty smells to make it very unpleasant on a hot day.

The next thing is that nobody seems to be aware of the need (or reason) for using insulation in the ceiling to prevent the Infra-red radiation penetrating the living space below. Any ideas where to purchase suitable insulation?

I'm a fan of "cool & cosy" recycled paper pulp "blow-in" insulation. It fills every nook and cranny without the need to crawl around in furnace temperatures fitting each rock-wool bat individually.

Other problems - how to change the locals habits of throwing rubbish out around the house and then making little stinky fires to burn all the plastic bags, eaves and other crap. The people seem to care less, since they're used to that way of life!

Another bad habit - attracting flys by throwing kitchen waste into the culvert!

I’d be interested to know how other readers have dealt with similar problems.

[jimbabe]

xerostar,

I love reading stories like yours, they are so funny! Of ccourse youaware . of the "this is thailand" standby but I dont think things have to be that way While wa are building our house in prakon chai we use her mothers house, With a squat toilet and a t.ank of water on a cement floor. all the washing water goes out a little hole in the wall at floor level. Weve had some great times in there. But. I am a plumber in the US and ours will be done right, not only with traps but also with proper venting to the roof. If you are building in my area, southern Issan. I would be happy to lend you some cuidance or even design your system Also an american company "Kohler" owns a thai company "karat" and they make nice fixtures.

jimbabe

[The Skipper]

They will build you a slum if you let them.

[xerostar]

Thanks for the feedback Jimbabe.

Yes it's funny when looking back, but not at the time!

Thanks for the offer of help too.

My wife's family is not far from Lat Yao, west of Nahkon Sawan.

I assume I will be able to find the "Karat" fixtures in Nahkon Sawan?

Yes to The Skipper - I agree, you need to ride shotgun on every aspect of construction, otherwise you don't get what you imagined or wished for. It's amazing to see what can result really.

I didn't think there were so many ways you could stuff-up a job!

Then again, when I get the bill, I don't feel so bad ..

That reminds me. I asked this guy to paint the gable (triangular shaped closure at the end of the roof). It was plain fibro, with a small roof underneath made of blue prepainted corrugated fibro.

So this guy got a roller and a long bamboo handle so he didn't need a ladder! I thought that's neat! - no ladder! Wow this guy is an expert!

He found a big tub of yellow paint and then he stopped for a smoke.

I thought he must know what he's doing and went into town for a half hour. I came back to find rivulets of yellow paint running off the blue fibro! All I could say was "*hit!" I told my wife that was totally unacceptable! She found a ladder and got up there with a bucket of water and a Scotch cloth. After a half hour of rubbing I said "*uck me dead" and shook my head. Fortunately the paint had not dried too much! I should have known, because another time I asked the same guy to fix a small shaving mirror to my bathroom wall above the basin. I came back to find it neatly placed behind the basin - at tap level .. really, quite OK for midgets!

[samtam]

Nobody seems to be aware of the need (or reason) for using p-traps on any of the sinks or floor waste outlets. Consequently foul or musty odours are often present in the bathrooms, despite thorough cleaning of all internal surfaces. The only solution at our place was to keep a plug firmly in place while not in use.

One shudders at the thought of installing an exhaust fan in such rooms. (see exhaust fans below)

Your experience sounds all too familiar. I did not know the reason for a drain away in the bathroom, or indeed why the floor of the bathroom has to slope so markedly towards it, but in one of the many encounters with workmen in my newly refurbished condo, after they used the bathroom to wash themselves, it was athough they had sprayed water over the entire space. That drain is to cater for that. There seems no interest in letting the water drain down plugholes.

Having completed the refurb of the condo in 2004, it had to all be ripped up again three months later, as the waste and water pipes had not been connected properly, and the water was seeping into the downstairs gradually and making the newly laid maple floor buckle like a wave. And this was with so-called supervision by the architect. It cost me another 30% to redo, and despite a contract with the architect/contractor he refused to pay me, and I thought it not worthwhile to pursue him in the courts.

The quality and standard of workmanship in Thailand is sadly extremely primitive, and labourers do not have the skills, and they are not provided with the proper tools. It is no great surprise that a mega project such as the white elephant airport is the construction (and other) disaster it is.

If I had the time or inclination, I would love to set up a school where people could learn basic skills like plumbing, building etc. But the attitude here is always do something, then redo it, then redo it, then redo it etc. Time means absolutely nothing as we know.

[jayenram]

I agree, you need to ride shotgun on every aspect of construction, otherwise you don't get what you imagined or wished for.

I agree wholeheartedly. I believe I spent 95% of the construction period supervising the building of our house. It's surprising the cock-ups that occurred during the 5% of time when I was away. Fortunately the "mistakes" were simply remedied by the phrase "knock it down - start again".

[Jai Dee]

I agree, you need to ride shotgun on every aspect of construction, otherwise you don't get what you imagined or wished for.

I agree wholeheartedly. I believe I spent 95% of the construction period supervising the building of our house. It's surprising the cock-ups that occurred during the 5% of time when I was away. Fortunately the "mistakes" were simply remedied by the phrase "knock it down - start again".

Similar experiences here... check out my blog to read about my house building experiences. I must update that one day...

It is very much a learning experience... you must be totally devoted to supervision of the works... drawing pictures helps break down the language barriers too... be prepared for major headaches.

I wish anyone building a house here in Thailand all the luck that Buddha can bestow upon them... they'll need it!

[jayenram]

If anyone is interested, there are some pictures of my house building here:

http://gallery.thaivista.net/thumbnails.php?album=15

[wpcoe]

Misery loves company and we're all laughing with you, though as said above, at the time of construction/renovation it is sometimes hard to laugh.

I've survived three renovations now: one was the third floor of a Bangkok townhouse with no bathroom, but a sink it the corner of the back room. My Thai roommate had his three Buriram brothers come out to do the job. Oy vey. Included in the renovationl was ripping down gypsum walls to move them and make a bigger bedroom, install a closet I designed, and install a bathroom. The shower had glass block walls, the sink had a granite top, porcelain sink basin and a water line to an outdoors hot water heater. Reading the OP's opening post makes me feel a LOT better. :-)

My second and third renovations were the current condo I live in, with "professional" labor. Oy vey, again.

But with patient picture drawing, and actual handling of the tools, I was able to teach each of them a few new tricks, even if they just thought I was a ting-tong falang and forget what I showed them. The Buriram brothers were so enamored of my Black and Decker electric (battery) screwdriver that I bought each of them one when the job was finished. I wonder how long they lasted? :-)

Laying ceramic tiles in the condo, I was only able to buy enough with the slightest of surplus for what was needed. The tile store had to call and get delivery from all over the region to amass enough for my job. Naturally, they were from different lots, and some were slightly different color. A few were a LOT different in color, so I lay them down on the floor in the area that would later be covered by kitchen cabinets and the bathroom vanity. I explained to the contractor why I did it, and he relayed it to the workers.

I came back a few days later and the MUCH differently colored tiles (much lighter) were scattered throughout the living room where they stuck out like a sore thumb. Mai pen rai? Not on your @ss. I had them rip them out, eating in to the reserves, and we barely had enough to finish.

Trying to convince the Buriram boys that putting electric wires inside a gypsum wall was safe and a Good Thing was another episode. Hot water to a bathroom sink was a novelty, too.