1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I'm equating all criminals with the law. I also said robbery, financial crime etc etc. The sentence would reflect the use of violence or not. White collar crime is now punished severely especially in the US.

 

These 'asylum seekers" are often purely economic migrants willing to break the law and then hoping to wangle asylum if caught. Or don't you think they're criminals?

Asylum seekers are not criminals.

Just now, stevenl said:

Asylum seekers are not criminals.

 

They are if they illegally enter a country, use criminal people carriers or refuse to follow the correct processes.

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

Some might be- most of them are not!

 

Once they willingly commit a criminal act they become a criminal.

 

If they follow the correct procedure for applying for political asylum, they aren't. Enter illegally and they are.

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They are if they illegally enter a country, use criminal people carriers or refuse to follow the correct processes.

We're talking here about asylum seekers following the official procedure. These are the ones where the children get separated from the parents. So your post is not applicable, and you're basically admitting they are not criminals. So why the deplorable treatment?

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They are if they illegally enter a country, use criminal people carriers or refuse to follow the correct processes.

How many times do you need to be told? These are asylum seekers legally presenting themselves at the US borders in an attempt to claim asylum. They therefore should be treated as such until proper and due process takes place, which is clearly defined in US and international law. You are talking about illegal immigrants which is a completely different category but which of course Trump and his administration is confusing  his myopic base with by trying to illegally lump the whole lot in together.

Either way, children should not be forcibly removed from their parents and you sir should get a bit of humanity about you.   

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I really wish some of you Trumpers would get a modicum of facts before you jump to the defense of your beloved leader. 

The immigration process is NOT legal as Trump administration decided to charge everyone crossing the border with illegal entry rather than as asylum seekers (which the vast majority are). Human rights organizations, including the United Nations, have argued that this violates international law as this allows his administration to charge them in criminal court rather than waiting to see if they qualify for asylum. Even with all this, however there is still no law that requires immigrant families to be separated, however because migrants who’ve been referred for criminal prosecution get sent to a federal jail and brought before a federal judge, that’s where the separation happens — because you can’t be kept with your children in federal jail. 

The ACLU won an early victory in its case in June when the federal government asked the judge to throw out the case about families being separated from their parents. The judge refused and in his ruling, he made it clear he believed that if the allegations against the administration were true, they might very well be unconstitutional — violating family integrity, which some courts have found is implicitly part of the Fifth Amendment’s guarantee of “liberty” without due process of law.

So no. It's nowhere near being '100% legal'.

and if you are confused about why this is all coming about and why you think they are all illegal immigrants, please refer to my post of earlier.

    Shameless. 

24 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I'm equating all criminals with the law. I also said robbery, financial crime etc etc. The sentence would reflect the use of violence or not. White collar crime is now punished severely especially in the US.

 

These 'asylum seekers" are often purely economic migrants willing to break the law and then hoping to wangle asylum if caught. Or don't you think they're criminals?

From the lawyer Trump defenders love to quote, Mr. Alan Dershowitz

"Nor is this policy justified by the observation that children are always separated from their parents when the parents are arrested for any crime. Most minor crimes, such as the ones at the border, are immediately bailable and the parent comes home...With the border cases, the child is immediately separated from the parent, and the parent may remain confined for long periods of time."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/18/alan-dershowitz-mr-president-please-end-policy-separating-children-from-parents.html

Let's see.  In the past 24 hours, the administration has claimed that the child/family border separation issue is:

 

1. not happening

2. an effective deterrent

3. justified by the bible

4. the democrat's fault

 

And their base constituents are brain-dead enough to eat it all up with a spoon.

And now we have all five living First Ladies coming out against Trump...lol even his own First Lady...joy at the family dinner table.

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hyperbolic, even by your standards!

Not at all, the poster I responded to defended the separation of children from their parents and caging them by claiming that it was 100% legal. So were the Nuremberg laws, a great difference in scale and consequence yes, but exactly the same principle and argument. Given that posters disposition to sweeping statements in defence of the more bizarre aspects of right wing US politics perhaps an element of hyperbole is not inappropriate?

 

 

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Once they willingly commit a criminal act they become a criminal.

Yet you do not hold Trump to the same standard? Money Laundering, corruption, emoluments, treason, perjury, defamation, statutory rape, sexual assault, libel, obstruction of justice etc etc etc. The list is long. Just choose ONE and he is a criminal.

Edited June 19, 20188 yr by Andaman Al

What Trump is saying is "I don't care about children, I don't care about civil liberties, I don't care about the law - and you could be next"  

First of all, people are innocent until proven guilty.   Someone crossing the border still has to be legally adjudicated as a criminal.   

 

Second, the US courts go a long way toward trying to keep families together.   If there is any confusion take a look at the Joe & Theresa Giudice case.   Both were sentenced to prison.   He served his 40+ months in prison and she remained home with the children.   He was released and she then served her sentence.   

 

The Obama administration certainly separated families, but it was not the policy.   On occasions the father was deported first and the mother and the children held in detention as a family and later deported.   

 

Families should be kept together when possible, when not, children should not be separated from parents unless there is no alternative.   In this situation, there is an alternative.   

 

7 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

What Trump is saying is "I don't care about children, I don't care about civil liberties, I don't care about the law - and you could be next"  

He is saying 'I want my wall', that is what I need to stay here at the top.

There is little hope. Watch this POS justifying what is happening. He even admits that the people crossing the border are committing a misdemeanor at around 7.5 mins. Trump has surrounded himself with sycophants like this. Wolf Blitzer tries way way to hard to appease this guy and to tell him what a great job all his men and women are doing. This man is exactly why the USA will never be great again. This guy is retiring from ICE and clearly looking for his next 'administration' job.

 

 

How to appease the base? Well, contain that "infestation" of brown immigrants.

 

 

 

Trump: Dems want illegal immigrants to 'infest our country'

 

Edited June 20, 20188 yr by Silurian

I guess if you want to put a "face" on this abomination then the 'Rogue's Den' of Miller, Sessions and Nielsen works well.

 

 

I guess Kirstjen Nielsen never came from a family of immigrants then.

On 6/19/2018 at 7:08 AM, BobBKK said:

I clearly get the 'control immigration' policy and the 'they should not bring them' argument but I am also clear that snatching children from their parents is child abuse and they should not be pawns in this. 

 

Control immigration but let a ray of compassion in when it's about children who are confused and cannot understand what's going on. America what has happened to you?

And what do you  purpose as a solution  ?? 

1 hour ago, sangtip2 said:

And what do you  purpose as a solution  ?? 

Why do you ask, people discussing a topic should have the solution at hand?

14 hours ago, sangtip2 said:

And what do you  purpose as a solution  ?? 

Jail and deport.  

DHS Secretary Nielsen needs to resign ASAP. And she should think twice before eating in any restaurant.

.

 

 

Edited June 21, 20188 yr by mtls2005

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

DHS Secretary Nielsen needs to resign ASAP. And she should think twice before eating in any restaurant.

 

 

That reminds me of a funny thing a chef I used to work with would say:  "straight from my body to your plate."