Trump: Harley-Davidsons being made in Thailand is "the beginning of the end"

[anon4637435435]

im a long life motorcyclist and been in and out of harley many times and i just cant come to grips with paying a ridiculous amount as they are asking. ive been in there money ready to burn with my heart set on a few models but just walked out in disgust. the parts, the service is insane.

what i dont understand is thais dont make anything similar so why the stupid taxes. 

i was real happy to hear they would be made here but after watching some docos and utube vids of trumps reasoning im sorry to say i agree with him. thais can ride usless chinese crap as far as im concerned. i have a range of bikes imports grey and from dealers but buying a brand new harley is out of the question. the US needs to up taxes on thais. its only fair and double pricing too please. 

worlds got to start playing fair and trumps really pushing. 

 

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, MunkyBoogar said:

There are many articles pertaining to the closing of the KC plant and the shift to more production in Thailand. HD chose to move offshore because they can make more profit with non-union labor and at offshore sites with a exponentially lower minimum wage.

 

Well, post one where HD says that['s what they're doing because everything that's been posted so far says that's the opposite of what they're doing! In fact, the only people who say they're doing this for the reasons you suggest, is you!

[doodle]

Well, there is a similarity here in the world of guitars. What could be more American than a Fender guitar? Most guitarists are aware that some Fender guitars are made abroad, particularly in Mexico and in many other countries such as Japan.

 

The manufacturer makes this perfectly clear and everyone knows that, for example, a budget Stratocaster is made in Mexico. In fact, Japanese Strats are quite sought after as they have their own unique tone and are very well manufactured. 

 

So, Harley could adopt a similar strategy - budget Thai built or home grown excellence. The customer can decide. Everybody happy, except maybe, the die hard purists.....  

Edited June 28, 2018 by doodle
Spelling mistake

[MunkyBoogar]

You really could have googled this yourself.

 

http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-to-lay-off-workers-again-as-motorcycle-shipments-slump/

 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/05/11/harley-davidson-jobs-reportedly-being-shipped-to-thailand

"Machinist Richard Pence, who has the highest seniority in the Kansas City plant and has worked there since its inception, said, “Part of my job is being moved to York, but the other part is going to Bangkok."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harley-davidson-plans-thailand-factory-to-serve-southeast-asian-market.html

"After the New York Times reported on Harley's planned Thai investment, United Steelworkers (USW) International President Leo W. Gerard on Tuesday said the decision was "a slap in the face to the American worker and to hundreds of thousands of Harley riders across the country."

HD has been trying to get away from USW union for YEARS!

 

The benefit of building bikes in Thailand is the 60% tariff will be skirted but at the cost of killing jobs in the US. HD started laying off longtime employees shortly after being praised by DDD. We all know will find a new way to recoup its tea money.

 

https://thinkprogress.org/harley-davidson-close-kansas-city-plant-thailand-ee60d555d762/

"Union members, however, claim at least part of their work will be outsourced to Thailand. "

 

http://laborpress.org/harley-davidson-builds-plant-in-thailand-with-trumps-bonus-money/

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers president Bob Martinez Jr. said “These companies are taking tax breaks with one hand and handing out pink slips with the other. I’m going to call it like I see it…this is a corporate ambush on working people.”

 

Companies have been doing this for years. HD just chose extremely bad timing...... lol

[Briggsy]

47 minutes ago, Brigante7 said:

Harleys sold in the USA are made in the USA, the bikes sold outside of the USA are made outside. 

 

 

 

Brigante7.

I know. Tell Trump.

[MunkyBoogar]

9 minutes ago, doodle said:

Well, there is a similarity here in the world of guitars. What could be more American than a Fender guitar? Most guitarists are aware that some Fender guitars are made abroad, particularly in Mexico and in many other countries such as Japan.

 

The manufacturer makes this perfectly clear and everyone knows that, for example, a budget Stratocaster is made in Mexico. In fact, Japanese Strats are quite sought after as they have their own unique tone and are very well manufactured. 

 

So, Harley could adopt a similar strategy - budget Thai built or home grown excellence. The customer can decide. Everybody happy, except maybe, the die hard purists.....  

I have a Japanese Strat and a '77 Strat. I love them both equally but it is almost impossible to compare them. The '77 sounds so much smoother when playing Blues but the Japanese Strat rips when playing classic rock. However, both are modified and Pleked... lol.

 

Domestic marking production is a more profitable solution but with the Union tensions and the fear of losing investors, HD probably caused a sh@tstorm for themselves with the US market. HD roadrash creators will be more affordable for people (Thai citizens in Thailand) who love to kill themselves with motor vehicles.

[hobobo]

5 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

Tariffs need to be increased first of all. (I am from the US). If the tariffs were higher then the money it costs to outsource products might make companies start to use Americans to produce goods. I believe it is always better to have any country use their own people to do the jobs to get things made, instead of getting poor little Chinese people to make our shoes and toys, and yes I do realize that China is not the only country that companies use to make cheaper products, but its a big one. If tariffs were higher then the companies would not make as much money from foreign people and more local citizens would have jobs, and more businesses would buy materials from inside their own countries...MAGA

One problem, and it's a big one, doggie, is that Americans won't accept $3 a day in wages. If they insist on minimum wage of about $10 an hour, your American-made shoes will easily cost over $100, compared to $20 shoes made by the poor little Chinese people. Which pair do you think your average American shopper will buy?

[tpthai2]

(US DOLLARS)

 

US HARLEY DAVIDSON FAT BOB 2018 PRICE US:                      $16,999.00 

 

HARLEY DAVIDSON OF BANGKOK  2018 FAT BOB PRICE:     $41,269.00

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, MunkyBoogar said:

You really could have googled this yourself.

 

http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-to-lay-off-workers-again-as-motorcycle-shipments-slump/

 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/05/11/harley-davidson-jobs-reportedly-being-shipped-to-thailand

"Machinist Richard Pence, who has the highest seniority in the Kansas City plant and has worked there since its inception, said, “Part of my job is being moved to York, but the other part is going to Bangkok."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harley-davidson-plans-thailand-factory-to-serve-southeast-asian-market.html

"After the New York Times reported on Harley's planned Thai investment, United Steelworkers (USW) International President Leo W. Gerard on Tuesday said the decision was "a slap in the face to the American worker and to hundreds of thousands of Harley riders across the country."

HD has been trying to get away from USW union for YEARS!

 

The benefit of building bikes in Thailand is the 60% tariff will be skirted but at the cost of killing jobs in the US. HD started laying off longtime employees shortly after being praised by DDD. We all know will find a new way to recoup its tea money.

 

https://thinkprogress.org/harley-davidson-close-kansas-city-plant-thailand-ee60d555d762/

"Union members, however, claim at least part of their work will be outsourced to Thailand. "

 

http://laborpress.org/harley-davidson-builds-plant-in-thailand-with-trumps-bonus-money/

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers president Bob Martinez Jr. said “These companies are taking tax breaks with one hand and handing out pink slips with the other. I’m going to call it like I see it…this is a corporate ambush on working people.”

 

Companies have been doing this for years. HD just chose extremely bad timing...... lol

But surely if domestic sales are slumping, the company needs to increase sales elsewhere, and if that is not possible due to tariffs in the targeted market which makes the product overly expensive,  it makes sense to move at least some operations to those markets to avoid the tariffs, bringing down prices and increasing sales in those markets.   

 

Surely, business owners should be concerned about their own bottom line.  They are in it to make money. If everything was done from an altruistic perspective many businesses would go bust.

 

[lincolnshire poacher]

5 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Not forgetting BMW, Ducati and Triumph factories here.

Triumph have 2 factories in the UK and 3 here. The success story that is the modern Hinkley Triumph name, would not be possible without Mr Bloor having the foresight to open up that 1st Triumph factory in Chonburi.

With the superior Triumph  bikes being made in Chonburi, there won't be much sale for the overrated Harley Davidsons anyway

[Ramdas]

Disable bikes which actually make coffees on the go ? Nah, never been a fan of a slow, noisy and heavy so called motorcycle which can only be ridden on the straight roads ??‍♂️

Trump’s nothing but a global disaster, wherever he goes and whenever he opens that mouth causes nothing but conflicts around the world, separating family from their loved ones and so on,  what a despicable being he is,  just to put it lightly..Get rid of him before he causes any more damage !

[Ramdas]

Disable bikes which actually make coffees on the go ? Nah, never been a fan of a slow, noisy and heavy so called motorcycle which can only be ridden on the straight roads ??‍♂️

Trump’s nothing but a global disaster, wherever he goes and whenever he opens that mouth causes nothing but conflicts around the world, separating family from their loved ones and so on,  what a despicable being he is,  just to put it lightly..Get rid of him before he causes any more damage !

[MunkyBoogar]

10 minutes ago, tpthai2 said:

(US DOLLARS)

 

US HARLEY DAVIDSON FAT BOB 2018 PRICE US:                      $16,999.00 

 

HARLEY DAVIDSON OF BANGKOK  2018 FAT BOB PRICE:     $41,269.00

That is just greed at its best from two parties. A 60% tariff is plain silly so it consequently forces HD to bump the price in order to maintain its profit margin. Normal business logic: buy low and sell high to maximize your profits! 

 

[ELVIS123456]

I hate to provide truth to the anti-Trumpers about HD moving to Thailand because of Trumps tariffs or EU tariffs in response, but even Snopes has stated that this is mostly false (an unbiased mob would say false period).

 

Harley-Davidson has announced the closure of at least one of their U.S. factories and also announced that they would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. These decisions were both made before President Trump imposed tariffs on imported steel, and Harley-Davidson did not shut down their Wisconsin plant nor stop building motorcycles in the United States.

 

It is true that some American companies have expressed concern about how new tariffs may affect their business going forward. It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri.  However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

 

Additionally, Harley-Davidson announced in 2017 that it would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. However, Harley said at the time that the decision was made to better serve the burgeoning market in southeast Asia, and that the decision would not affect manufacturing in the United States:

 

Snopes has gained some credibility in my eyes following this assessment. Trump haters have not of course, and remain on the other side of the Universe from the facts.  Like CNN and other liberal MSM outlets, they both dont let the facts get in the way of a good anti-Trump story.  And both of them have an ever declining audience of listeners/viewers.

 

 

 

 

[Top Chef]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

It's all about the soundbite. And the sad thing is many U.S. voters are dumb enough, desperate enough or ignorant enough to buy straight into it.

 

Automotive companies with worldwide sales understand that in today's world they need to have several production centres around the world. The industry is very capital intensive and decisions have to be taken years in advance. Many factors enter the equation. Too many to list but here is a few. Cost of labour force, Skill of labour force, Location of customers, Tax and tax incentives, location of parts suppliers, stability of business environment, development of local automotive assembly industry.

 

The president is just talking complete garbage as usual.

The Jeep brand was also produced here in Thailand a while back. The locally produced Jeep was fraught with flaws. So while keeping costs down, repairs to the Thai Jeep product increased substantially. The same will happen with HD along with the ever present pilfering problem of new HD parts. This will be an unavoidable dilema for Harley Davidson.  SOMNUM NA

 

Trump is merely stating the obvious. 

[natway09]

Audi have been producing for some years great cars in China.

Thailand produce Mercedes successfully,

so why should they not be able to produce a funny looking chopper ?

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, Top Chef said:

The Jeep brand was also produced here in Thailand a while back. The locally produced Jeep was fraught with flaws. So while keeping costs down, repairs to the Thai Jeep product increased substantially. The same will happen with HD along with the ever present pilfering problem of new HD parts. This will be an unavoidable dilema for Harley Davidson.  SOMNUM NA

 

Trump is merely stating the obvious. 

Yeah, you're totally right, all those foreign automotive firms don't last 5 minutes in Thailand. Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Triumph, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Hino. They all ever opened one plant each and they all closed within 12 months. Your post is spot on. In fact Thailand hasn't got a single car or bike plant left, no automotive industry at all, no parts suppliers, they've gone too. All moved to America. You're so right as is Trump. He's always right about everything, you know. BAR THAI IN CAPS (It's all I know). MAGA ?

[ELVIS123456]

In response to all the comments about Harley's as a bike, I would like to add my views.  The best bike I ever owned was a BMW S1000RR - it was great on ride days around Phillips Island and Eastern Creek and blasts through the hills. But it was pretty crook going long distances, and that was were my old Ducati ST4S excelled and was also good on the tracks. But some years ago a mate offered me a ride on his Harley (no idea what model - not a chopper anyway - not 800 either). It was absolutely huge and awful at first, but when I got on the highway and just went straight it was great - like riding an armchair. Handle like sheeite and brakes too soft/slow, but easy and comfortable - and all the cars moved away and not one of them caused me any grief - it was like being on my old BMW K100 ex-police bike. Way better than a Goldwing that I once rode - which was also huge but had great brakes and handled OK for its size.  In Thailand I can see that Harleys would be a good option on all the long highways - but not so good in the city traffic that is for sure. 

[Basil B]

46 minutes ago, tpthai2 said:

(US DOLLARS)

 

US HARLEY DAVIDSON FAT BOB 2018 PRICE US:                      $16,999.00 

 

HARLEY DAVIDSON OF BANGKOK  2018 FAT BOB PRICE:     $41,269.00

Serves Fat Bob right for voting for Trump... 

[Kinnock]

Trump may have a point - after Triumph set up production in Thailand in 2002 they disappeared as a brand and nobody heard from them again ......... oh wait .....

 

OK .... how about Ducati - since they started production in 2008 they went downhill fast and  ..... er no .... well look what happened to Honda after they started production in Thailand .... ah .....

 

As an aside - does anyone else think of bras whenever they hear the phrase 'Triumph twins' ..... no ... just me then.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Kinnock

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, kickstart said:

Do they build Triumph, Ducati's and BMW, from the ground up, ie do all the engine castings and machining etc, here in Thailand, or as I think with Triumph's and maybe other makes, some parts are imported into Thailand and built here in to complete bikes.

We have a Triumph dealership in Lopburi, drive past with a drooling mouth, nice bikes. 

Not sure with Duc & BM.

I believe all the forgings and case hardening is still made in the UK, then shipped over, ie cranks and cams. I believe most gearbox internals & clutches are made here, along with aluminium castings and their machining. Certain c/head work is done in the UK. Basically there is assembly, machining & manufacture in both countries and a lot of to'ing & fro'ing with shipping containers between each other.

Apparently it makes financial sense and is a way of the modern world.

Alan Cathcart, one of the world's most respected technical m/c journos, did a very good, eye opening, interesting write up on the Thai factory a while back.

 

[kingstonkid]

I tend to agree with TRUMP  The fact that there are certain things that are synonymous with different countries is important.  

 

Would you buy German chocolate made in Laos.

 

Imagine if Rolls Royce moved here and built the Rolls and then shipped it back to England to sell because it was cheaper.  Remember they are not going to lower the price.

 

It is not that they are making them here that upsets him so much; from other feeds that I have read but that they are making them here and then going to bring them to the STATES and make more money and cause good Americans both DEm and GOP to lose their jobs.

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, Brigante7 said:

Harleys sold in the USA are made in the USA, the bikes sold outside of the USA are made outside. 

 

 

 

Brigante7.

I never understood the blind American hatred for all things Japanese motor cycle related. The complete suspension components front and rear on all HD models has been Japanese since the late 70's.

 

2 hours ago, Lupatria said:

No it wont! I weight 56 Kg and drove my Heritage Springer 200.000 Km in Asia. Ok, once I toppled over, but only after being hit by a stupid 19 year old Thai women overrunning a red light in Bangkok.

 

      

 

[Chopperboy]

To many Trump haters in here buying into the propaganda. He's right in a modern world tariffs should be equal between trading partners. Can't be that China gets to send its goods to the US at 5-10% yet the taxes the other way are 40% - wake up!

 

Who cares where Harley moves their decrepit old motorcycle production to...  

[jenny2017]

7 hours ago, Topdoc said:

How about: "Harley-Davidsons should never be built."

Or Harley shouldn't date Davidson's sons?

It's all weird Alzheimer talk coming from Trump. The world has changed a lot and it's time for America to wake up that the World Police Area is long over.

 

On the other hand is China producing steel for the Golden Gate bridge, while plenty of American steelworkers are jobless.

Why didn't they build steel factories in the States and give people jobs? 

 And yes, we want cheap Harleys, affordable for all, in Thailand. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by jenny2017

[lvr181]

So sayeth motor mouth.................

 

HD is about the only American made vehicle that sells well outside the USA and Donald T Rump wants to punish them? Starting to rate up alongside with "Mexico will pay for the wall"!!

[jenny2017]

18 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

I never understood the blind American hatred for all things Japanese motor cycle related. The complete suspension components front and rear on all HD models has been Japanese since the late 70's.

 

 

Please shoot me, should you see me running around with such a brainless shirt.

Where do people believe are many electronic components from? 

[lvr181]

11 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

And yes, we want cheap Harleys, affordable for all, in Thailand. 

 

cheap charleys? The place is full of them. 

 

Harleys may be suitable for American roads but hardly suitable for Thai roads. Any decent Jap bike or Ducati would blow them into the weeds with finesse and less noise.

[Briggsy]

24 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

they are making them here and then going to bring them to the STATES

They are not. Trump would love you to believe it though and he hints at it to make you believe it and if you're dumb and don't do your own reading and you're a believer, then you do believe it and you believe Trump is a righteous crusader fighting for America and the fire is stoked in your belly at those Harley-Davidson traitors. See how it works? CAPS

[jenny2017]

Just now, lvr181 said:

cheap charleys? The place is full of them. 

 

Harleys may be suitable for American roads but hardly suitable for Thai roads. Any decent Jap bike or Ducati would blow them into the weeds with finesse and less noise.

Just for the show in my front yard.....?