U.S. forces, British divers join search for boys missing in Thai cave

[Enoon]

 

Difficult to believe that, for some at least, hypothermia has not already made this a matter of "retrieval".

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Enoon

[kevvy]

3 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Crikey. Thais requesting assistance from foreigners.

 

Must be serious...

 

Crikey

Yes it is serious 13 young boys lives are at risk. .

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Difficult to believe that, for some at least, hypothermia has not already made this a matter of "retrieval".

 

 

There have been multiple reports that because of the local temperatures, hypothermia is not a significant risk. 

[mok199]

Thailand were saving face is more important than saving lives..

[cyberfarang]

Hopefully, if they are all found safe and well, I feel a movie in the making here.

 

Miracles have happened before, trapped miners found months after and trapped earthquake victims discovers 2 weeks later.

 

Anyway, the top guys in this field are on the job, now it`s in the lap of the gods.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by cyberfarang

[Essaybloke]

6 hours ago, pieeyed said:

I pray for a happy ending.

I hope for a happy ending, no supernatural entities involved. Just real human beings trying their best to save some lives.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Essaybloke
correct typo

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, Essaybloke said:

I hope for a happy ending, no supernatural entities involved. Just real human beings trying their best to save some lives.

 

Poo to yoo.

 

I bet you reckon there's no Santa Claus as well.

 

Poo.

[cyberfarang]

11 minutes ago, mok199 said:

Thailand were saving face is more important than saving lives..

Thank you for your invaluable contribution to this story.

 

Let`s see if anyone else can come up with something better for the moron of the year competition.

[Essaybloke]

6 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Excellent. Yet another piece of good advice from the likes of Buddha Issara.

 

That'll serve a purpose.

Well meaning advice that comes to nothing really. Oh well, we hope for the best outcome while preparing for the worst.

[Essaybloke]

4 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Poo to yoo.

 

I bet you reckon there's no Santa Claus as well.

 

Poo.

No Santa Claus! ?

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

.......Please. Not now!

Just can't button the lip, unfortunately. 

[Briggsy]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There have been multiple reports that because of the local temperatures, hypothermia is not a significant risk. 

Show me one credible report stating hypothermia is not a significant risk (an off the cuff remark by a senior cop who knows nothing of underground conditions is not credible). If they are in running water, they could easily have succumbed to hypothermia already.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Show me one credible report stating hypothermia is not a significant risk (an off the cuff remark by a senior cop who knows nothing of underground conditions is not credible). If they are in running water, they could easily have succumbed to hypothermia already.

It's been posted here already from a credible British source and I'm not going to find it for you. Find it yourself. 

[Briggsy]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's been posted here already from a credible British source and I'm not going to find it for you. Find it yourself. 

OK. Thanks.

[Artisi]

24 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Show me one credible report stating hypothermia is not a significant risk (an off the cuff remark by a senior cop who knows nothing of underground conditions is not credible). If they are in running water, they could easily have succumbed to hypothermia already.

If in the water..... 

[cyberfarang]

46 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There have been multiple reports that because of the local temperatures, hypothermia is not a significant risk. 

Although I`m no expert, sorry, don`t agree no matter what the reports say.

 

Temperatures can drop quite low during the night in Northern Thailand, plus the cold water and being deep underground out of reach of sunlight, I would say there is a significant chance of hypothermia.

[upu2]

Would like to think that all of the three options are executed simultaneously. I assume they will though

[Artisi]

24 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Although I`m no expert, sorry, don`t agree no matter what the reports say.

 

Temperatures can drop quite low during the night in Northern Thailand, plus the cold water and being deep underground out of reach of sunlight, I would say there is a significant chance of hypothermia.

And what part of the outside temperature influences what is basically a constant all year round temp. within the cave system. 

There could be some temperature lower effect of the colder water passing thru' the cave system as will the higher cave temperature influence the water temp. 

Without a massive amount of data and complex modelling as to the changes, the changes are really unknown. My feeling from being in a few caves and underground mines, I would think the temp. will remain sufficient to overcome hypothermia provided they can remain fairly dry. 

[chickenslegs]

54 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Show me one credible report stating hypothermia is not a significant risk (an off the cuff remark by a senior cop who knows nothing of underground conditions is not credible). If they are in running water, they could easily have succumbed to hypothermia already.

I don't know whether this has been posted in any of the topics, but here is a quote from a BBC news article ...

Keep warm

The first major risk, Mr Mirza says, is hypothermia.

"Wring out clothes to keep them dry," he says, "and huddle together for warmth."

Andy Eavis, retired head of the British Caving Association, says thankfully hypothermia probably won't be a big issue in the Thai cave system.

"The ambient temperatures will be fairly high," he says, estimating them to be between 23-26C (73-79F).

Mr Eavis, 70, has been exploring caves for the past 50 years, including some in Thailand, Myanmar and China - although not the cave system in which the teenagers and their coach are trapped.

He says many of these caves are huge - some big enough to be explored "with aeroplanes" - and doesn't think they're likely to flood to the roof.

"If they're sitting out of the water, they won't die of hypothermia," he says.

 

The full article is here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44633601

Edited June 28, 2018 by chickenslegs

[HHTel]

Quote

Caving experts told the BBC that as long as they were in a chamber above flood levels, they had a chance of survival. The biggest dangers would be hypothermia or lack of oxygen.

Quote

Andy Eavis, retired head of the British Caving Association, says thankfully hypothermia probably won't be a big issue in the Thai cave system.

"The ambient temperatures will be fairly high," he says, estimating them to be between 23-26C (73-79F).

"If they're sitting out of the water, they won't die of hypothermia," he says.

Quote

 

Conflicting opinions

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

Conflicting opinions

Indeed, but Eavis issued a caveat that hypothermia would not be a danger only if they were dry.

[CGW]

31 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Although I`m no expert, sorry, don`t agree no matter what the reports say.

I would have to agree with you, with the expected lows a British person would have no problem, but they are acclimatised to a different average temperature, we have all seen how Thai people handle cold weather - not very well! Hopefully they can stay dry and together.

What I do find a concern is how many people are involved, who is in charge? be an absolute nightmare organizing and bringing all the different people together and keeping count of them!

[Esso49]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Thank you for your invaluable contribution to this story.

 

Let`s see if anyone else can come up with something better for the moron of the year competition.

Well if the Thai authorities,  or who is ever in charge of this rescue mission, had complied to at least one point of the cave rescue rules listed here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_rescue ) then perhaps they would have disproved the posters comment that it is more important to save face than lives.  In fact it is an inherent Asian trait ,  not just Thais but others.  It just seems that Thais have excelled at it better,  which,  tragically, does not help those poor fellows trapped.  But never mind your own blast back at a fellow poster and your implication that he is a moron for pointing out a commonly understood Asian trait I think puts your own self in the lead for the "moron of the year competition".  Now like many posters on TV can I implore you not to comment negatively on other posts ,  rather try to add to the debate in an adult and positive manner without insults.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Esso49

[mercman24]

post 30 i would have thought their bikes parked outside of the cave was a good enough clue. 

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, mercman24 said:

post 30 i would have thought their bikes parked outside of the cave was a good enough clue. 

What is it you could not understand ? My point was that it is an assumption based on the fact there bikes were nearby.  If you park your car outside a toilet block does it mean you are inside ?  Also based on the fact that there is no factual evidence the group entered the cave then their lives could be endangered by the simple fact,  clearly beyond you,  that they could be elsewhere, nearby perhaps, in a life threatening position that is not being searched.

[snoop1130]

Drilling to start Thursday night at cave in search for missing footballers

By The Nation

 

Search team surveys a stream in an attempt to find alternative way to go into Tham Luang Cave where 12 young footballers and their assistant coach have been trapped since last Saturday.

 

Drilling equipment on Thursday afternoon reached the Tham Luang Cave, where 12 teenage football players and their assistant coach were last seen on Saturday, in preparations for another effort to reach the victims believed to have been stranded inside by flash floods.

 

“We are now on standby as we wait for the exact spot for the drilling mission,” said Asst Professor Suttisak Soralump, an engineering lecturer at Kasetsart University.

 

He said equipment prepared was of a “percussion drilling” type. In percussion drilling, a heavy cutting or hammering bit is attached to a rope or cable and then repeatedly lowered to open up a hole. 

 

“We plan to start drilling from a horizontal angle first to minimise the risks of crumbling,” said Suttisak. “The hole will be between four and five inches wide,” he said. “Then, we will send a camera through the hole to check what is inside the target section,” he said. 

 

Suttisak expected the drilling operation to start Thursday evening. 

 

PTT Exploration and Production were using high-quality drones to survey the target areas as of press time. 

 

“If the drilling does not meet obstacles, it is possible to drill a distance of 100 metres within one day,” Suttisak said. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30348843

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-6-28

[Nigeone]

Just really sad that there's a reluctance to realise Thais are not very good at anything by authorities. Haven't the necessary skills or experience and the reluctance to have requested help earlier I hope doesn't cost lives. Many countries not least U.K. and USA would have provided instant help if requested . Hopefully it's all not to late and the expertise and logistics  now arriving can make the difference .

[Bill Miller]

8 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Excellent. Yet another piece of good advice from the likes of Buddha Issara.

 

That'll serve a purpose.

Probably does for the relatives, who likely are all buddhists.
I do not think it is helpful for you to make snide remarks about their religious beliefs at such a time.

[snoop1130]

Local points to littleknown opening in roof of cave

By The Nation

 

 

A man has alerted a border patrol police commander about an opening on the ceiling of a cave in Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district where 12 young footballers and their assistant coach are trapped for the sixth day on Thursday.

 

Narong Wongtoenjai, 50, of Jongwat village, in Tambon Pongpa, met Pol Colonel Rangsiman Songkrotham and told him about what he described as a big chimney above a cave that is now flooded.

 

He said that he was a local villager and used to go into the Tham Luang Cave many times. During his trip to the area, he had found the opening that is about two metres wide. Many local people also knew about it.

 

“I once dropped a stone into the hole and could not hear the stone touch the ground. We also used a fire in an attempt to see the ground, but to no avail, meaning it is very deep,” Narong said.

 

He gave the commander the exact location of the hole.

 

It is reported that police accompanied Narong and some villagers to the spot mentioned by Narong.

 

The search teams are seeking an alternative entrance to the cave in a bid to find the missing groups, as the search operations from the main entrance have been hampered by heavy floods, darkness and thin air.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30348864

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-6-28

[Jan Van Caeyzeele]

With all our heart we hope for a good result to find these thirteen young people alive!