Survival boxes to be dropped in Tham Luang cave waterways

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, CGW said:

Hindsight? did you think of this before!

I told that to my wife 3/4 days ago,  if it is like a river stream why not try to put any kind floating enlighted things with all kinds of aids inside? It seems to me logical days ago! Yes sir!

[RandolphGB]

Putting waterproof radio walkie talkies in the rescue boxes instead of phones would have solved this

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Is this a new facet of the ‘if you don’t like it go home’ comments? 

Absolutely right! What a trite and hackneyed comment ('go back to your own country' if Thailand is too dangerous for your judgement ...).

 

You could argue (legitimately) that I was foolish to go into a cave system that I had not researched in advance - but I simply trusted this Thai friend of mine. A potential mistake, as it turned out. I warned him afterwards that there is going to be a tragedy sooner or later with this type of cave visiting - and now I am so sad about what is happening (and need NOT have happened, it seems) ....

[RandolphGB]

Rescue boxes in radio controlled boats? Or radio controlled submarines / amphibious vehicles to negotiate the water and raised parts? Surely in this day an age there is a way to use technology to explore the currently inaccessible parts of the cave.

Edited June 29, 2018 by RandolphGB

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Is this the first ever cave rescue mounted in Thailand, a country whose numerous caves and caverns attract tourists as well as local groups? One could be forgiven for thinking so from events unfolding at Chiang Rai. It appears the government had no contingency plan or dedicated team trained ready to meet such a stern challenge and is relying largely on imported expertise.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I have nothing but respect and admiration for domestic and international rescue teams involved. And it is good to to see the PM belatedly putting in an appearance at the site. However, as other forum members have observed, some of the measures now being taken - such as test drillings and launching emergency survival kits - could have been implemented days ago, assuming the Thai contingent running the show actually had thought of them.

 

It is also clear that this cave, like many others open to the public in LOS, is hazardous even to experienced caving addicts, some of whom are now telling their scary stories to the media. A potential killer cave if ever there was one. Yet no detailed maps. No guides. No lighting. Just a sign outside the entrance (only very recebntly erected by the look of it) warning of possible flash floods from July!

 

Like everyone else on this forum, I am praying for a happy ending to this harrowing drama. I am also praying that the powers that be are drawing up an action plan for any future emergency and recruiting a dedicated national, fast-response cave rescue team - armed with whatever equipment they need - to do the job.

To your last comment re., emergency plans / dedicated team/s by the government - you must be joking.

60 /70 a day killed on the roads every day and who are the emergency rescue teams - private organisations.

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, Julie H said:

So let me get this straight. You had no idea that entering a cave could lead to a life threatening situation?

under normal situations for a cave open to the public - NO.

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

under normal situations for a cave open to the public - NO.

Exactly, Artisi! I did not expect that public, tourist-attractiony caves would be a death trap (I was probably still thinking as a European).

 

I was visiting Trang with a Thai friend - and he suggested we visit these caves. Half an hour later, we were in them. I had no knowledge of them. I made the foolish mistake of thinking that 'they must be safe if they are a public attraction'. I forgot (foolishly, I admit) that I was in Thailand - where safety always comes last! The point, however, is that I immediately recognised, on experiencing how the Thai 'guides' were out of their depth inside the cave system, what tragedies were waiting to happen with ventures such as this.

 

I would NEVER go into Thai caves again ...

[Julie H]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

under normal situations for a cave open to the public - NO.

You are applying the safety standards & logic you learnt from your home country. Do you expect every country around the world to follow your lead? Rather arrogant of you

Edited June 29, 2018 by Julie H

[DavisH]

I hope it works but s they will float, they may get stuck in parts of the cave that are fully waterlogged and where water flow is slow. They definitely need to be illuminated and preferable emit a sound. 

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

 

A respectful silence is maintained by many who already know the end of this.

 

 

Well , remain silent then .

How can you claim to be "maintaining a respectful silence" , when you keep insinuating that the Children will/have died ? 

[DavisH]

14 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Exactly, Artisi! I did not expect that public, tourist-attractiony caves would be a death trap (I was probably still thinking as a European).

 

I was visiting Trang with a Thai friend - and he suggested we visit these caves. Half an hour later, we were in them. I had no knowledge of them. I made the foolish mistake of thinking that 'they must be safe if they are a public attraction'. I forgot (foolishly, I admit) that I was in Thailand - where safety always comes last! The point, however, is that I immediately recognised, on experiencing how the Thai 'guides' were out of their depth inside the cave system, what tragedies were waiting to happen with ventures such as this.

 

I would NEVER go into Thai caves again ...

Something went very wrong in the cave where the children are trapped. The few caves I have been in have had park rangers supervising at various spots. They should not have let them venture too far, especially given the potential for flooding. 

[Artisi]

14 minutes ago, Julie H said:

You are applying the safety standards & logic you learnt from your home country. Do you expect every country around the world to follow your lead? Rather arrogant of you

Sounds to me like the kettle calling the pot black. 

[Ks45672]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well , remain silent then .

How can you claim to be "maintaining a respectful silence" , when you keep insinuating that the Children will/have died ? 

I listened to the English expert guy today giving an interview for Thai TV 

She asked him if they still have Chance to save them alive and he said something like, if they are not found in the next 24hrs.....probably not

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

I listened to the English expert guy today giving an interview for Thai TV 

She asked him if they still have Chance to save them alive and he said something like, if they are not found in the next 24hrs.....probably not

I agree. 

Though I think even that is optimistic. 

[Artisi]

25 minutes ago, Julie H said:

You are applying the safety standards & logic you learnt from your home country. Do you expect every country around the world to follow your lead? Rather arrogant of you

Guess you don't venture onto the roads either, catch trains or buses and stay well clear of the local airlines. 

[Julie H]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Guess you don't venture onto the roads either, catch trains or buses and stay well clear of the local airlines. 

I have actually cycled the entire country, been to every single province and have seen many tragedies that could have been avoided. I learnt long ago that my views on safety and logic do not apply here, maybe you will too.....one day 

[DM07]

54 minutes ago, Julie H said:

You are applying the safety standards & logic you learnt from your home country. Do you expect every country around the world to follow your lead? Rather arrogant of you

This must be one of the dumbest comment, I ever read on TVF!

And I read a lot of absolutely dumb BS here!

Mindblowing!

? 

[Artisi]

24 minutes ago, Julie H said:

I have actually cycled the entire country, been to every single province and have seen many tragedies that could have been avoided. I learnt long ago that my views on safety and logic do not apply here, maybe you will too.....one day 

Well I would suggest an immediate rethink of your views and logic, something along the lines of what most thinking expats do once they realise their life is in danger in Thailand. 

But then on the other hand - guess we aren't as smart as you. 

 

[Julie H]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

 

But then on the other hand - guess we aren't as smart as you. 

 

Congratulations you have taken the first step

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, Julie H said:

Congratulations you have taken the first step

You do have yourself on, don't you? 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Is this a new facet of the ‘if you don’t like it go home’ comments? 

Ah, the 'if you can't stay alive it's your fault' ?

 

It sort of has more merit than the go home one, though. I would never enter a cave anywhere, I was made to roam on the savannah, not pretend to be a mole. Same with diving, don't have gills, etc. Especially here where every Somchai straight out of Nakhon Nowhere is a qualified tour guide.

[Myran]

Holy crap, will you pathetic babies stop bickering about BS in a topic about 12 children on the brink of death, please? Get your freaking priorities in order.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Myran

[maximillian]

 

>>>It is unclear whether the boxes contained flashlight as divers who operated inside the case said it was dark inside.<<<

 

Dark inside caves ?  Who would have thought so ?

The boxes sure must be lit. Possibly with a strong flashing light and a buzzer.

And please keep sending those boxes for a long time. Send hundreds if necessary.

Best idea so far.

Edited June 29, 2018 by maximillian

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, Myran said:

Holy crap, will you pathetic babies stop bickering about BS in a topic about 12 children on the brink of death, please? Get your freaking priorities in order.

Indeed. Priority #1: warn others not to go into caves. As for the ongoing situation, nothing to be done there by TVF commentators. 

[sanemax]

31 minutes ago, DM07 said:

This must be one of the dumbest comment, I ever read on TVF!

And I read a lot of absolutely dumb BS here!

Mindblowing!

? 

Why do you feel that its "dumb" ?

I have seen what Julie is referring to numerous time with Westerners abroad . think 

  Some Westerners abroad seem to think that if somethings dangerous , they then will be stopped from doing it , * I can walk into this cave , so it must be safe to do so, or someone would stop me from going in * , kind of thing .

    Its not an intentional mindset, its just that we are used to Countries that high higer rules and regulations

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

I agree. 

Though I think even that is optimistic. 

I am coming to that opinion as well .

The divers cannot get in their , they cannot get the water out .

What next ?

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, RandolphGB said:

Rescue boxes in radio controlled boats? Or radio controlled submarines / amphibious vehicles to negotiate the water and raised parts? Surely in this day an age there is a way to use technology to explore the currently inaccessible parts of the cave.

 

Its muddy water, the divers can't find their way, controlling a radio controlled submarine would just be all the more difficult, the camera could not see more than a few centimetres so you would be left to slowly map small sections of the wall of the cave, it would take years.

[Julie H]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Its muddy water, the divers can't find their way, controlling a radio controlled submarine would just be all the more difficult, the camera could not see more than a few centimetres so you would be left to slowly map small sections of the wall of the cave, it would take years.

The water at the entrance is muddy, they water in deeper sections of the cave is actually very clean and clear, recent pics of divers shows this 

[thenoilif]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Is this the first ever cave rescue mounted in Thailand, a country whose numerous caves and caverns attract tourists as well as locals? One could be forgiven for thinking so from events unfolding at Chiang Rai. It appears the government had no contingency plan or dedicated team trained ready to meet this kind of challenge and is relying largely on imported expertise.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I have nothing but respect and admiration for the domestic and international rescue teams involved, and it is reassuring for loved ones of the missing footballers to see the PM belatedly putting in an appearance at the site. 

 

However, as other forum members have observed, some of the measures now being taken - such as test drillings and launching emergency survival kits - could have been implemented days ago, assuming the Thai contingent running the show actually had thought of them.

 

It is also clear that this cave, like many others open to the public in LOS, is hazardous even to experienced caving addicts, some of whom are now telling their scary stories to the media. A potential killer cave if ever there was one. Yet no detailed maps. No guides. No lighting. Just a sign outside the entrance (only very recently erected by the look of it) warning of possible flash floods from July!

 

Like everyone else on this forum, I am praying for a happy ending to the current drama. Just as fervently, I pray the government will put together a national fast-response cave rescue team, plus a coherent strategy for dealing with future emergencies.

A very typical farang post. Thinking that you know everything and the locals know nothing.

Let me educate you a little. There are numerous cave exploring accidents, mostly due to people falling or drowning (cave diving) that happen every year all around the world, including the US. For example, a guy just recently died in Mammoth Cave in America because he attempted to go on a tour that he wasn't physically fit to handle. I could bash the say something to the effect of why are so many westerners so obese and unaware of their physical fitness but I'm not one for stereotyping. 

 

There are also all sorts of other eco-sports like rock climbing, mountain climbing, scuba diving, mountain biking, and hiking that have known dangers but people still do them anyways. You know how many bodies are up on Everest? You know why they're still there? Given your expertise, maybe you should come up with a plan that no other person has been able to devise and get them off the mountain. Nature is a dangerous and often unforgiving place and some of it is also unregulated and fortunately, not destroyed by too much nanny hand-holding regulations. 

 

This actually reminds more of what we see with coal mining accidents and typically, there is very little that can be done with those as well and often times progress is extremely slow. 

 

Reality is, this group made a choice to enter a cave, one that they had been in a few times before, ignore a warning sign, and are now in grave danger. The coach made a bad judgment call, simple as that. Try not to turn everything into a racial superiority contest.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by thenoilif

[HHTel]

Quote

The boxes also contain messages which ask that the finder to phone the rescue team and tell them their location and the extent of their water and medical supplies. The boxes will be dropped into waterways and open channels at Doi Pa Mee cliff near the cave with the hope that they will float to within reach of the missing group. The boxes also contained blinkers, pens for marking, mobile phones of three providers, flashlights, candles and lighter."..

For those that think they aren't lit.