115cc -125cc Motorcycles Vs Scooters

[thedivezone]

I just bought a Honda Air Blade Scotter 51,000, it is a 110cc water cooled engin which is suppose to have the same power as a 125 air cooled engin. I was going to buy the Suzuki 125 Scooter but my wife said buy Honda and I am glad I did. The Air Blade is more sturder than most of the scooters with two struts at the back rather than one as most of the scooters have and thus can easily support my 95 and my wife's 50 kilos. Buy an automatic if you live in a city like Khon Kaen, no gear changing. I would have liked a Honda Phantom, but it was out of my price range and I must admit since most of my riding is done in Kalasin City the automatic Air Blade is a lot nicer to drive than a Phantom would be. Issangeorge.

Issangeorge,

i was thinking about the Air Blade for a while now, can you tell me if it's four or two stroke ?

Mike

[gdhm]

...

If you drive outside of bigger Towns and are afraid about Punctures; just take a replacement tube with you.

I can just see a big falang changing the inner tube on Nouvo,,,, Yaiks!

,

I assume its not harder than changing a car type in torrential rain on a road pitch black at night with no street lighting. I also assume its similar to changing a bicycle inner tube but larger. Big I am, immobile and clumsy I am not.

I admit that the rear view of me bending down is probably NOT a pretty sight (but I am lucky I never see that view )

Not sure how you would get air into the tyre though, as there is not much carrying capacity on a scooter or motorbike for a pump.

Regards, Dave

[Far Angst]

...

If you drive outside of bigger Towns and are afraid about Punctures; just take a replacement tube with you.

I can just see a big falang changing the inner tube on Nouvo,,,, Yaiks!

,

I assume its not harder than changing a car type in torrential rain on a road pitch black at night with no street lighting. I also assume its similar to changing a bicycle inner tube but larger. Big I am, immobile and clumsy I am not.

I admit that the rear view of me bending down is probably NOT a pretty sight (but I am lucky I never see that view )

Not sure how you would get air into the tyre though, as there is not much carrying capacity on a scooter or motorbike for a pump.

Regards, Dave

Both of your assumptions are dead wrong: changing a car tire compared to changing a scooter tire is piece of cake, no matter how dark and stormy the night: you do not have to detach the axle/motor/exhaust before changing a car tire. You have room in the car for all necessary tools, pump, cleaning towelettes & such, which you do not have in scooter. And you do not carry a spare tire as in car. If you ever changed a tire in Vespa, this is not it. Vespas have a spare with the rim so it’s as easy as on cars. Of course, if you drive your car without the spare tire, just with a spare inner tube, the two jobs are similar, the car tire change being easier and requiring less tools and time.

But, there's a scooter born every second.

Simple first practical exercises:

1. Walk to nearest parked Honda Wave. Look at the left (port) side of the motor. Two things stick out: the footrest and the swing-type gearshift-cum-clutch swing-type pedal. It is not on the floor, it is on the left (port) side of the motor and is used by toe and heel. Toe to change 0-1-2-3-4 and heel to change 4-3-2-1-0. When on 0 = neutral, you depress the front (bow) part of the pedal with your left (port) toe (front, or bow, part of your foot) once you've taken the foot out of your mouth. On pressing the gear-shift lever, first the clutch disengages, then the gear 1 is thrown in. You then lift the toe up allowing the clutch to engage. Assuming the engine is running, you are now ready to twist the right (starboard) handlebar towards you. Doing this causes the motor run faster and the centrifugal action lets the clutch to unite the motor with the drive-gear. This happy union results in you zooming off to dark and stormy night. You may repeat this action several times to zoom ever faster and ever further away from the City, Town or Hamlet. Should you wish to stop, use you heel as many times as required in manner herein depicted.

2. Walk to the nearest Yamaha Nouvo or any such small-wheeled scooter. Look at the rear wheel and imagine yourself standing next to it on dark and stormy nigh with a spare inner tube in your port hand, tire iron in your starboard hand, bag of tools under one arm and air-pump under the remaining arm.

Just look at it and imagine you agilely crawling there trying to decide if you have all the tools to detach the engine prior to removing the rear axle prior to detaching the flat rear tire. Or better yet, get a cold beer in a restaurant right next to some better-equipped tire service. Wait a while and Somchai will appear with his pick-up, dump the flat-tired Nouvo from the flatbed and the rubber-smith will get to it. You might learn a lesson here.

Knowledge and practical experience kills assumptions.

,

[gdhm]

....Both of your assumptions are dead wrong:...

Hi

Many thanks for your detailed information. As you said BOTH my assumptions are dead wrong AND I would personally add thinking about it VERY NAIVE .

Thanks also for the detailed info on gear usage. Its much appreciated. How things have changed from my old Vespa. Personally I liked the handlebar gears BUT then I suppose its what you are used to, and no doubt there are good reasons for the foot method, otherwise the handle gear would have remained.

Regarding your comments "Knowledge and practical experience kills assumptions". Could not agree with you more. Thanks.

My very limited scooter (motorbike ZERO) experience is 35 years old and as far as I can recall I never suffered a puncture in the 2 years I was using my Vespa on London roads (very fortunate)

Kindest Regards, Dave

[gdhm]

Dave,

...Much conjecture here and may I suggest that whilst all posters are trying their best to help you, ultimately it's up to what suits you personally. I'd recommend renting a few different types of bikes (cc & gearbox combos), riding around your area and making your mind up from practical experience gained in the real world where you will be riding until you flog your house and can by a car. Also, remember, you'll prob get about 80 - 90% of the purchase price back as secondhand vehicles generally hold their value very very well over here.

Hope this helps....

Cheers,

Pikey.

Interesting and good suggestions here Pikey.

I have looked for Internet reviews AND the manufacturers websites for details of bikes and scooters, BUT Thailand (Honda for instance) are only in Thai, and reviews and road test reports seem to be very few and far between (surprisingly). If I do lateral thinking and look up an English speaking Asian country's website then they do not necessarily have the same models (or DO have the same models but with different names so I cannot be sure they are the same)

To save me time, and based on members knowledge of what automatics are available in Thailand please can I ask.

1) What makes and models of totally automatic scooters and bikes are sold here?

2) are they 100% automatic. Namely, nothing to do at all regarding clutch and gears?

3) If I do go for 100% automatic are there any obvious best makes/models models?

4) Do automatics do as well as manuals for dealing with carrying weight and choosing the correct gears accordingly.

Thank you

Regards, Dave

[Pikey]

Dave,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but like I said before, rent a few and then you will be more informed about the capabilities of modern day "motorbikes" ( I call them scooters). On the face of it, with KK being flat, an auto would be easiest, especially if you are rusty/don't have too much manual experience. But don't take mine or other's opinions as gospel I have no experience of an auto and it's down to you with what you feel comfortable with at the end of the day.

Regarding your questions above, take some time to wander around a few dealerships, talk with the sales people, sit on them, play with the controls, collect brochures and have your wife translate them, then make your decision.

Guess what I'm getting at here is that you are the only one who can make the choice and to do that, you need to invest a little time and effort to go out and experience these bikes rather than just relying on other peoples opinions. You never know, make a good choice and you might even enjoy it and want to keep it as a second vehicle once you get yourself a car!

Cheers,

Pikey.

[gdhm]

Dave,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but like I said before, rent a few and then you will be more informed about the capabilities of modern day "motorbikes" ( I call them scooters). On the face of it, with KK being flat, an auto would be easiest, especially if you are rusty/don't have too much manual experience. But don't take mine or other's opinions as gospel I have no experience of an auto and it's down to you with what you feel comfortable with at the end of the day.

Regarding your questions above, take some time to wander around a few dealerships, talk with the sales people, sit on them, play with the controls, collect brochures and have your wife translate them, then make your decision.

Guess what I'm getting at here is that you are the only one who can make the choice and to do that, you need to invest a little time and effort to go out and experience these bikes rather than just relying on other peoples opinions. You never know, make a good choice and you might even enjoy it and want to keep it as a second vehicle once you get yourself a car!

Cheers,

Pikey.

Hi Pikey,

I have done the rounds with many retailers in Khon Kaen. All have NOT spoken English (recognise a key word or 2) none have been able to answer questions. All say to my wife what they think I want to hear (or what they want me to believe) and ALL brochures are 100% in Thai. I speak and read no Thai. My wife speaks basic English but is not able to recognise English bike items or jargon and therefore cannot interpret NOR get a Thai answer and say it in meaningful English. She has done her best, bless her, but it is too much to ask or expect of her.

In the UK I would go armed with loads of questions, and cross check the answers given against different shops answers. I am normally very organised and do a lot of research but having lived in Spain the last 4 years and now Thailand the language barriers make me have to guess a lot, use Internet and members advice in the Thai Forums.

With regard to other peoples opinions, I greatly value them but recognise differing view points and attitudes. As you correctly say the choice and decisions ultimately must be mine and my responsibility alone. Having said that this thread HAS thrown up some VERY interesting knowledge and facts that I had not realised.

HOW VALUABLE HAS THAT BEEN!!!

My thanks to all

Regards, Dave

[Pikey]

Dave,

You've got my sympathy with the dealer/wife bit - been through that too!

A fact for you - bigger wheels, like most scooters have now, means more gyroscopic effect, which in turn means more stability. Forget your bad Vespa memories as today's scoots are nothing like them. Is it easy to get a test ride from dealers in KK? If so, then that's definitely the way to go. If not, then my preference would be to go for a 2/3 year old 125 Honda Wave as just about anywhere can service them, they hold their value, and like another poster already mentioned, you see them being used to pull sidecars/trailers e.t.c so weight should not be a prob so long as you are not in a rush

Reckon you should pay between about 25 - 30K and I think they have a manufacturers warranty of 3 or 4 years.

Let us all know what you end up with and happy (and safe) riding!

Cheers,

Pikey.

[gdhm]

Dave,

You've got my sympathy with the dealer/wife bit - been through that too!

A fact for you - bigger wheels, like most scooters have now, means more gyroscopic effect, which in turn means more stability. Forget your bad Vespa memories as today's scoots are nothing like them. Is it easy to get a test ride from dealers in KK? If so, then that's definitely the way to go. If not, then my preference would be to go for a 2/3 year old 125 Honda Wave as just about anywhere can service them, they hold their value, and like another poster already mentioned, you see them being used to pull sidecars/trailers e.t.c so weight should not be a prob so long as you are not in a rush

Reckon you should pay between about 25 - 30K and I think they have a manufacturers warranty of 3 or 4 years.

Let us all know what you end up with and happy (and safe) riding!

Cheers,

Pikey.

Thanks a lot Pikey.

Although what you say sound very sound I suspect we will go for new. I like to be sure that the bike has not been used badly (especially during the running in period) I would never recognise symptoms or tell tale signs. I remember my NEW Vespa engine locking for a split second during MY running in (gave me a hel_l-of-a-fright as had it not unlocked immediately I would have been thrown at a speed around 45-50 mph.

To be honest I STILL not sure what I was doing wrong for it to happen. I had been told a good speed was not the issue, it was more to do with the smoothness my driving and, gear and acceleration technique of getting to it that counted. BUT in my case maybe I needed a few more miles before I raised the speed. Am sure I scarred the inside but luckily never noticed any ill affects thank goodness. Maybe my driving technique was not what I thought it was

Regards, Dave

[Choscura]

I'd reccomend the 150cc honda cbr. you can get a used one for a good price (I just sold mine for 30,000, you can get them cheaper), they're good reliable bikes, the only reason I sold mine was that I don't have enough money to have 2 bikes and I need to go long distances sometimes (about 4-600 km at a stretch). it'll support your weight and your wife no problem, the handling is good, never had any engine trouble with it.the only trouble I've had is when I first got it, one of the mirrors lost a screw and nearly fell off, but that's since been fixed with no problems.

[tropo]

Dave, I've had years of experience on Honda Waves (125cc) in the Philippines, and now in Thailand I've notched up a full year on a few Yamaha Nouvos. I average about 6,000km per year on motorbikes (scooters) in Asia.

I'm about to choose my next motorcycle to buy in the Philippines next month and without any doubt my choice is the more expensive Yamaha Nouvo. There's no comparison. The advantages over the Honda Wave are numerous and the power seems about the same, maybe better.

I always ride 2-up (total weight over 140 kg). Even with this weight to carry, I can do a standing start up a steep incline (Buddha Hill in Pattaya) and still hit 40km/h.

The Yamaha Nouvo is safer than a Honda Wave because you're not preoccupied with gears and the dual hand brakes make for better emergency braking. Unless the rider is very experienced, foot brakes usually get riders into trouble in emergency braking situations and often cause accidents. The gears on the Honda are annoyingly clunky, especially when the engine is cold.

Another major advantage is the ability to carry shopping on a large hook just below the handlebars, and the scooter panelling keeps your feet clean and dry when you're driving through puddles, unlike on the Honda Wave.

There is the new Honda Click, and Honda Airblade that have just come onto the market to compete with Yamaha Nouvo, but Honda are new to the automatic class of scooters whereas Yamaha have been doing them for decades. I was riding an automatic Yamaha scooter in the late 80's. I'll go with the proven technology that Yamaha experience has brought to the market in Nouvo.

PS. I just read your original post and noticed you will be riding with a combined 2-up weight of 180 kg. That's a full 40 kg higher than my load. That's a lot of weight for any small motorcycle and if you do go the Nouvo way, I would recommend you invest in heavier duty dual shocks. I've seen them on some of the motorcylce taxis. You may want to look into getting a maxi scooter, but they are far more expensive.

Edited February 19, 2007 by tropo

[gdhm]

Dave, I've had years of experience on Honda Waves (125cc) in the Philippines, and now in Thailand I've notched up a full year on a few Yamaha Nouvos. I average about 6,000km per year on motorbikes (scooters) in Asia.

I'm about to choose my next motorcycle to buy in the Philippines next month and without any doubt my choice is the more expensive Yamaha Nouvo. There's no comparison. The advantages over the Honda Wave are numerous and the power seems about the same, maybe better.

I always ride 2-up (total weight over 140 kg). Even with this weight to carry, I can do a standing start up a steep incline (Buddha Hill in Pattaya) and still hit 40km/h.

The Yamaha Nouvo is safer than a Honda Wave because you're not preoccupied with gears and the dual hand brakes make for better emergency braking. Unless the rider is very experienced, foot brakes usually get riders into trouble in emergency braking situations and often cause accidents. The gears on the Honda are annoyingly clunky, especially when the engine is cold.

Another major advantage is the ability to carry shopping on a large hook just below the handlebars, and the scooter panelling keeps your feet clean and dry when you're driving through puddles, unlike on the Honda Wave.

There is the new Honda Click, and Honda Airblade that have just come onto the market to compete with Yamaha Nouvo, but Honda are new to the automatic class of scooters whereas Yamaha have been doing them for decades. I was riding an automatic Yamaha scooter in the late 80's. I'll go with the proven technology that Yamaha experience has brought to the market in Nouvo.

PS. I just read your original post and noticed you will be riding with a combined 2-up weight of 180 kg. That's a full 40 kg higher than my load. That's a lot of weight for any small motorcycle and if you do go the Nouvo way, I would recommend you invest in heavier duty dual shocks. I've seen them on some of the motorcycles taxis. You may want to look into getting a maxi scooter, but they are far more expensive.

Thanks everybody for all your help and advice.

AND my verdict was : The Yamaha Nouvo MX automatic. I had shortlisted the Suzuki Step and the Mio and the Nouvo because having found the gear changing is not on the handle bar these days that eliminating this learning curve (in what I consider a somewhat dangerous driving environment) was desirable as Tropo correctly says.

I tried sitting on each of the bikes and that alone made the Nuovo the only real choice as the Step's handle bar controls on the left touched my leg when I turned the steering wheel and the Mio sometimes brushed my leg. The Nuovo was the only one with clearance. OK its not a scooter but because it is an automatic it does have a foot plates like scooters and has splash protection (once again as Tropo says)

One shop wanted 56,000baht, one 54,900 baht. The one we settled for wanted 53,000 baht. My wife told them we wanted alloy wheels for strength and she haggled (she is a very quiet lady but determined and shameless in haggling).

At the end of the day we got 2 crash helmets (mine decent with visor and side of head protection), 3rd party insurance free, A Yamaha promotion Smart card that has 1,750 credit on it which can be used at places like 7-Eleven, True etc. I decided to extend the insurance to cover Theft and paid for 3 years of that. Total bill 52,900 baht. My wife had managed to get an initial asking price of 53,000baht for the bike alone down to 50,000 baht. (Oh yes they threw is a special freeby -an electric rice cooker ).

We bought it Saturday (sorry i have not reported back before but I have been laid up in bed ever since (still not 100%) and so far I have not ridden it at all. I had to buy it that day coz a leading monk in the area (famed for future vision) told my wife to buy it on one of 2 days if we wanted luck and safe accident free motorcycling in future. The first day was to soon for me to be able to get all the money from the ATMs so ill or not I had to get it last Saturday. Very frustrating not trying it out yet but no good trying whilst feeling as I do at the moment.

Tropo, I will bear in mind your comments about the shocks. I will see how these go first, maybe they will cope. Tolerance is usually built into things (question is just how much ) I cannot expect miracles but at least we will be only town driving and doing nothing over rough or semi rough terrain.

Kindest Regards to all who have helped and advised me. All the advice and knowledge I have gained in just a few weeks has been wonderful and invaluable and I learnt so much

Dave

[Orangutan]

Dave,

Do you mind sharing what dealership you purchased your Nuovo at?

Much appreciated,

-O

[gdhm]

Dave,

Do you mind sharing what dealership you purchased your Nuovo at?

Much appreciated,

-O

Whilst I personally have no problem with your request I have just heard from a friend that some manufacturers forbid discounting by their dealerships on the actual vehicle itself. I do not know if this applies to Yamaha

Consequently, I do not wish to get involved, nor be the cause of any problems for the dealer IF they HAVE made a small transgression.

My Apologies and I hope you understand

Dave

[Orangutan]

Dave,

Do you mind sharing what dealership you purchased your Nuovo at?

Much appreciated,

-O

Whilst I personally have no problem with your request I have just heard from a friend that some manufacturers forbid discounting by their dealerships on the actual vehicle itself. I do not know if this applies to Yamaha

Consequently, I do not wish to get involved, nor be the cause of any problems for the dealer IF they HAVE made a small transgression.

My Apologies and I hope you understand

Dave

One shop wanted 56,000baht, one 54,900 baht. The one we settled for wanted 53,000 baht. Dave

gdhm.

Err...apparently dealerships don't have a problem discounting their bikes.

-O

[gdhm]

Dave,

Do you mind sharing what dealership you purchased your Nuovo at?

Much appreciated,

-O

Whilst I personally have no problem with your request I have just heard from a friend that some manufacturers forbid discounting by their dealerships on the actual vehicle itself. I do not know if this applies to Yamaha

Consequently, I do not wish to get involved, nor be the cause of any problems for the dealer IF they HAVE made a small transgression.

My Apologies and I hope you understand

Dave

One shop wanted 56,000baht, one 54,900 baht. The one we settled for wanted 53,000 baht. Dave

gdhm.

Err...apparently dealerships don't have a problem discounting their bikes.

-O

Orangutan I think they do.

I asked my wife about the discussion she had and the girl offered freebies, discounting the insurance, giving us alloy wheels instead of spokes RATHER than agree to discount the actual price of the bike.

I was not there and I think The girl recognized she needed to get my wife's OK for the sale, not mine. My wife asked for a little discount and suggested 50,000baht and this was refused so she said she would leave and keep trying around the City to see if she could get it or a near offer.

I think at the end of the day the girl knew my wife would try, and guessed my wife would probably find one dealer in the end, and she made a reluctant business decision not to lose the sale for 3,000baht.

My wife is a quiet lady and she does not play games BUT she is determined when trying to discount (especially when it comes to protecting my money) and she WOULD have checked all over town before deciding where to buy - she is not a bluffer.

Anyway at the end of the day all were happy, but it WAS a HARD earned discount and needed bravery and determination by my wife.

Regards, Dave

Edited February 21, 2007 by gdhm

[Issangeorge]

I just bought a Honda Air Blade Scotter 51,000, it is a 110cc water cooled engin which is suppose to have the same power as a 125 air cooled engin. I was going to buy the Suzuki 125 Scooter but my wife said buy Honda and I am glad I did. The Air Blade is more sturder than most of the scooters with two struts at the back rather than one as most of the scooters have and thus can easily support my 95 and my wife's 50 kilos. Buy an automatic if you live in a city like Khon Kaen, no gear changing. I would have liked a Honda Phantom, but it was out of my price range and I must admit since most of my riding is done in Kalasin City the automatic Air Blade is a lot nicer to drive than a Phantom would be. Issangeorge.

Issangeorge,

i was thinking about the Air Blade for a while now, can you tell me if it's four or two stroke ?

Mike

Mike the Air Blade is a 4 stroke and a great bike for city driving, at low speeds up to about 70 it has great acceleration and can weave in and out of trafic no problem. I have taken it on two 100 km highway runs and it will cruise at 80-90 no problem, all in all a great little bike if most of your traveling is in the village, town, or city and if it's on the highway, then you want a 150 or bigger. Issangeorge.

[anthrosciguy]

I don't know much about motorcycles in Thailand, but even my month there taught me a couple things:

1) a 125cc Honda Dream has plenty of power for in town use, and short hauls on fairly flat roads, even with two people with a combined weight of 300 lbs., because that was our situation.

2) Once you start going uphill very steeply the power is barely enough, and may require downshifting to 2nd or even 1st. However, for in town use this is not a problem; only out of town in the hills is this a problem.

3) the seat gets uncomfortable for a couple of "large" people like us after 30-50 km and you need to stop and stretch your legs.

4) all these potential small bikes -- the 100-125cc bikes and scooters -- are available for hire so cheap you should definitely take that other person's advice and rent several first. That way you get an all-day test drive under the circumstances and style of riding you will face for less than 150BHT.

Then in things I don't know but suspect -- the Honda Phantom looks like it may potentially be the right kind of bike overall, but I wonder about its handling in town -- whether or not it's nimble enough. And the Honda CBR 150 looks like my kind of bike, except for the riding I would actually be doing in Thailand -- it's a sport bike with a thin saddle and I suspect it just wouldn't make it when it comes to comfort.