Narrow passages, flood waters: What Thailand's trapped boys face coming out

[snoop1130]

Narrow passages, flood waters: What Thailand's trapped boys face coming out

By Panarat Thepgumpanat and Chayut Setboonsarng

 

A diver walks in Tham Luang cave complex, as an ongoing search for members of an under-16 soccer team and their coach continues, in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, July 1, 2018. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Rescuers in Thailand are deciding how they will rescue 12 boys and their soccer coach from a flooded cave complex as the country's north braces for more monsoon rains that could imperil the operation.

 

The boys are around four km (two and a half miles) from the cave's entrance, according to the Thai navy, and about 400 metres from Pattaya Beach, a large, elevated point inside the Tham Luang cave complex.

 

But before the group, trapped since June 23, can be reunited with their families, they will have to contend with debris clogging some of the passage ways back to the cave's entrance and high water levels that might require them to use scuba diving gear, despite no previous training.

 

Many have questioned how the children can be brought out if it took even expert divers nine days to reach them.

 

The 10-km Tham Luang complex in Chiang Rai is relatively unexplored and includes narrow, dark passages. Before the boys reach a T-junction three km north of the cave's entrance they will have to dive at least once, said rescue workers.

 

"It takes six hours to get to where the children are and five hours to come back (to the cave's entrance)," said Major General Chalongchai Chaiyakum, deputy commander of the Third Army Region. 

 

Officials have said between two to three divers will accompany each member of the group.

 

Thailand is in the middle of its monsoon season which usually ends in mid-October. A sign outside the cave warns visitors it is prone to flooding.

 

Thomas Hester, detective superintendent with the Australian Federal Police Specialist Response Group, said there were "heavily flooded areas" inside the cave complex.

 

"Its very difficult to see, very difficult to move inside that flooding system," said Hester.

 

One major challenge will be a "crisis" point marked on the Thai Navy's map of the cave - an area where rescuers say the cave dips - and debris, mud and water pools, which require constant clearing.

 

The point is between Pattaya Beach, a few hundred metres from where the boys were found, and the T-junction, according to Thai divers assisting in the operation.

 

From the T-junction to the entrance of the cave water levels are currently "manageable", said Chiang Rai Governor Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn.

 

FOUR OPTIONS

 

The Thai Navy said water at the cave's entrance was 34 cm deep but levels can vary depending on the rain.

 

"From the T-junction to Pattaya Beach (there) is a slope and a passage about 15 metres long, a very narrow passage. Small people can push through but not large people. You have to go in one at a time. Those who are using an oxygen tank have to remove it push it forward.... After this point you come to a dry area," Chalermphon Hongyon, president of the Water Rescue Club Region 7, told reporters.

 

Rescuers are currently considering four options to extract the boys.

 

Plan A is to teach the boys, aged between 11 and 16, how to dive and to assess whether they are fit enough to tackle the journey out. Plan B is to pump and drain enough water out of the cave so that the group can crawl out part or most of the way.

 

Another is to find an alternative way into the cave through a natural shaft near the boys' location that can be drilled from above.

 

"We are searching for shafts, so maybe can adjust plans and go down and explore," Narongsak said on Thursday. He did not elaborate.

 

The last option, one that many say should be a last resort, is to keep the boys inside the cave with enough food and water until they are strong enough to leave or until water levels subside.

 

More rain is also expected over the weekend, according to Thailand's meteorological department, something that will likely force rescuers again to reassess their plans.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-7-5

[mok199]

I saw a movie once called ''The Fantastic Voyage'' they shrunk everyone down in size,borded them inside a submarine !!!....Rachel Welch has an amazing rack.!!!!.

Edited July 5, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, mok199 said:

I saw a movie once called ''The Fantastic Voyage'' they shrunk everyone down in size,borded them inside a submarine !!!....Rachel Welch has an amazing rack.!!!!.

I remember that film very well. It was very exciting!

 

Unfortunately, we cannot shrink these poor young lads and bring them out in a submarine (although Prayut might contemplate it). I just hope and pray that somehow they will be brought to safety. God knows the whole world wants this. The young footballers have captured everyone's hearts and sympathies, I think.

 

Let's continue to hope for the best - despite the immense challenges that lie ahead. At least we know we have a fantastic team of dedicated workers doing their best to free these youngsters from their cavernous prison. I still have definite hope.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Eligius

[Thian]

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2263652/thaise-dennis-9-vraagt-rutte-om-hulp-bij-grotjongens-nederland-weet-toch-veel-van-water

 

I'll post it again, this is a letter in the Dutch newspaper where a Thai boy living in Holland asks the PM for help in Thailand since the Dutch are the waterexperts.

 

We'll see, but the dutch pumps are 23 times faster than the biggest one they're using now. And they are already in Singapore.

 

Would be nice if they got some help so the boys can walk out of that cave on own feet.

[GBW]

18 minutes ago, Thian said:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2263652/thaise-dennis-9-vraagt-rutte-om-hulp-bij-grotjongens-nederland-weet-toch-veel-van-water

 

I'll post it again, this is a letter in the Dutch newspaper where a Thai boy living in Holland asks the PM for help in Thailand since the Dutch are the waterexperts.

 

We'll see, but the dutch pumps are 23 times faster than the biggest one they're using now. And they are already in Singapore.

 

Would be nice if they got some help so the boys can walk out of that cave on own feet.

would be nice if the Dutch ,big pumps, were in Mae Sai,   rain coming  tomorrow  or  Saturday?  where  were the DUTCH BIG PUMPS when needed? and need now? Oh, in Singapore.  Not much use there.   But Im sure the the Dutch are on there way.  I am sure the lads feel 23 times safer now  that the Dutch water experts are on their way via Singapore. 

I am the eternal optimist,  and they will walk out.  Good luck to them and good luck to the Dutch crowing in with the big pump in Singapore.

[chickenslegs]

47 minutes ago, Thian said:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2263652/thaise-dennis-9-vraagt-rutte-om-hulp-bij-grotjongens-nederland-weet-toch-veel-van-water

 

I'll post it again, this is a letter in the Dutch newspaper where a Thai boy living in Holland asks the PM for help in Thailand since the Dutch are the waterexperts.

 

We'll see, but the dutch pumps are 23 times faster than the biggest one they're using now. And they are already in Singapore.

 

Would be nice if they got some help so the boys can walk out of that cave on own feet.

Hi Thian. Your link is in Dutch language, so most of us will not be able to understand it.

I think that most people recognise that the Dutch are experts in the field of water extraction - for obvious reasons.

Are you saying that these pumps are currently in Singapore and on their way to Chiang Rai?

I hope so, as I agree that it would be nice to see these boys walk (or wade) out of the caves.

[neeray]

1 hour ago, Thian said:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2263652/thaise-dennis-9-vraagt-rutte-om-hulp-bij-grotjongens-nederland-weet-toch-veel-van-water

 

I'll post it again, this is a letter in the Dutch newspaper where a Thai boy living in Holland asks the PM for help in Thailand since the Dutch are the waterexperts.

 

We'll see, but the dutch pumps are 23 times faster than the biggest one they're using now. And they are already in Singapore.

 

Would be nice if they got some help so the boys can walk out of that cave on own feet.

This is the best idea that I have read yet.

[janclaes47]

33 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Hi Thian. Your link is in Dutch language, so most of us will not be able to understand it.

I think that most people recognise that the Dutch are experts in the field of water extraction - for obvious reasons.

Are you saying that these pumps are currently in Singapore and on their way to Chiang Rai?

I hope so, as I agree that it would be nice to see these boys walk (or wade) out of the caves.

Well i obviously can read the dutch article, and you can also because below the Thai text is a translation button, but I don't see anywhere Singapore or the size of the pumps mentioned.

[chickenslegs]

7 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Well i obviously can read the dutch article, and you can also because below the Thai text is a translation button, but I don't see anywhere Singapore or the size of the pumps mentioned.

Sorry janclaes47 but I can't see any translation button.

 

My question to Thian is: Are the Dutch sending these pumps to Chiang Rai or not?

[janclaes47]

6 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Sorry janclaes47 but I can't see any translation button.

 

My question to Thian is: Are the Dutch sending these pumps to Chiang Rai or not?

There is no mention of pumps whatsoever in the article.

 

[Thian]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

Hi Thian. Your link is in Dutch language, so most of us will not be able to understand it.

I think that most people recognise that the Dutch are experts in the field of water extraction - for obvious reasons.

Are you saying that these pumps are currently in Singapore and on their way to Chiang Rai?

I hope so, as I agree that it would be nice to see these boys walk (or wade) out of the caves.

Nope i don't say that, all i say is that i like the guts of the Thai boy in Holland to write to the pm and ask for help....for him it's just some phonecalls and the pumps are on their way from singapore. The might even have those pumps closer to chiang rai, i don't know. The dutch work internationally with equipment of that size but i don't work in that business. 

 

The Thai also have a pm and a higher one, they could have called the dutch for help...i'm just saying....Who would you call in emergency? Me i would call the experts with the right equipment.

 

But i also read that the Thai brought in hundreds of extra pumps, well enough small ones also can do the job and are easyier to transport.

 

I just hate the idea of the boys having to stay in that cave for 4 months while it's not necessary.....

 

 

[Thian]

41 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Well i obviously can read the dutch article, and you can also because below the Thai text is a translation button, but I don't see anywhere Singapore or the size of the pumps mentioned.

Nope i got that from another website, there's a dutch company with superpumps who have a branch in singapore...they also helped the UK some years ago when they had floodings, they have the largest pumps of the world and that's their business.

 

It would be best if a VIP from thailand called Holland for help...they are the pro's for pumping water.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Thian

[Fish Head Soup]

You would have thought that the management of this Dutch water pump company would have contacted the Dutch embassy in Bangkok and offered their services by now.

 

How strange, and how embarrassing for them if they haven't.

[Thian]

1 minute ago, Fish Head Soup said:

You would have thought that the management of this Dutch water pump company would have contacted the Dutch embassy in Bangkok and offered their services by now.

 

How strange, and how embarrassing for them if they haven't.

You know, today they could also have called Thailand and offered them free captain-trainings...It just doesn't all come for free....Thailand has to learn how to be professional...

 

 

[Fish Head Soup]

15 minutes ago, Thian said:

You know, today they could also have called Thailand and offered them free captain-trainings...It just doesn't all come for free....Thailand has to learn how to be professional...

 

 

Whats the name f this Dutch company? I'm going to send them an email and ask them if they have offered any assistance in any way and if so what was the response to the offer.

[chickenslegs]

23 minutes ago, Thian said:

It would be best if a VIP from thailand called Holland for help...they are the pro's for pumping water.

It's possible that the people running this rescue operation are not aware that these pumps are close by in Singapore, whereas I doubt that anyone in the water pump industry is unaware that Chiang Rai is in desperate need of help.

 

So, IMHO anyway, the Dutch company should be getting involved, pronto.

[Cake Monster]

18 hours ago, GBW said:

would be nice if the Dutch ,big pumps, were in Mae Sai,   rain coming  tomorrow  or  Saturday?  where  were the DUTCH BIG PUMPS when needed? and need now? Oh, in Singapore.  Not much use there.   But Im sure the the Dutch are on there way.  I am sure the lads feel 23 times safer now  that the Dutch water experts are on their way via Singapore. 

I am the eternal optimist,  and they will walk out.  Good luck to them and good luck to the Dutch crowing in with the big pump in Singapore.

The Dutch, or anybody else has to be asked for their help.

Has anybody even asked them for their assistance ?

[Kiwiken]

They are trying to pump water from the caves which are naturally fed by streams. I guess this is the best they can do. But I wonder if it was not possible to put in flexible sealed ducting to a suitable diameter that the kids crawl out rather than scuba. i have seen a lot of big flexible plastic water ducting in Thailand hard to believe there is not a product available. Any child with Asthma or a chest problem will not be able to scuba

[africasiaeuro]

Pumping the waters out is not impossible. It needs logistics which aren't available locally. There is a twitter message to Donald Trump if he will help https://twitter.com/stoansteirer/status/1015195465791533057

[africasiaeuro]

17 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

They are trying to pump water from the caves which are naturally fed by streams. I guess this is the best they can do. But I wonder if it was not possible to put in flexible sealed ducting to a suitable diameter that the kids crawl out rather than scuba. i have seen a lot of big flexible plastic water ducting in Thailand hard to believe there is not a product available. Any child with Asthma or a chest problem will not be able to scuba

If not Thailand the U.S has, and much more experience. All it needs is a call from Bangkok to Washington.

[Thian]

19 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

My question to Thian is: Are the Dutch sending these pumps to Chiang Rai or not?

I sent a message to a huge Dutch pumpcompany who has them waiting in Singapore, they replied me today that they contacted the embassy to offer help.

 

Now it's up to the Thai if they want it and give workpermits for them.

 

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

They are trying to pump water from the caves which are naturally fed by streams. I guess this is the best they can do. But I wonder if it was not possible to put in flexible sealed ducting to a suitable diameter that the kids crawl out rather than scuba. i have seen a lot of big flexible plastic water ducting in Thailand hard to believe there is not a product available. Any child with Asthma or a chest problem will not be able to scuba

Not possible in the narrow, twisting spots where people have to squeeze through.  And it is these which are the problem. Areas where it is fairly open water, they can pull them through either floating on the surface or weighted down with full face masks & air tanks, in either case with a SEAL escort on either side of them. But there are these really tight, difficult, twsty areas where they have to squeeze through rocks underwater in single file one at a time. .Not big enough or straight enough for tubes etc.

 

 

[Thian]

21 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

It's possible that the people running this rescue operation are not aware that these pumps are close by in Singapore, whereas I doubt that anyone in the water pump industry is unaware that Chiang Rai is in desperate need of help.

 

So, IMHO anyway, the Dutch company should be getting involved, pronto.

I mailed that company and showed them this story, now i found this in the newspapers, they're coming if Thailand wants it!!  with serious equipment.

 

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2269680/nederlands-bedrijf-helpt-bij-thaise-grot

Edited July 6, 2018 by Thian

[chickenslegs]

16 minutes ago, Thian said:

I mailed that company and showed them this story, now i found this in the newspapers, they're coming if Thailand wants it!!  with serious equipment.

 

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2269680/nederlands-bedrijf-helpt-bij-thaise-grot

Great stuff Thian.

I just read in another topic that it's rumoured the boys will be dived out tonight. Been reading all day that water levels have been going down due to pumping and diverting streams/rivers, so they may have decided it's (relatively) safe to start the extraction.

Hoping and praying that all the boys and rescuers will get out unharmed.

Fingers crossed.

Edited July 6, 2018 by chickenslegs
spelling

[lamyai3]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:43 PM, mok199 said:

I saw a movie once called ''The Fantastic Voyage'' they shrunk everyone down in size,borded them inside a submarine !!!....Rachel Welch has an amazing rack.!!!!

On 7/5/2018 at 8:21 PM, Eligius said:

Unfortunately, we cannot shrink these poor young lads and bring them out in a submarine

Shrinking them is obviously a non starter, but mok199 might have been suggesting a large pair of flotation devices...

[Thian]

2 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Great stuff Thian.

I just read in another topic that it's rumoured the boys will be dived out tonight. Been reading all day that water levels have been going down due to pumping and diverting streams/rivers, so they may have decided it's (relatively) safe to start the extraction.

Hoping and praying that all the boys and rescuers will get out unharmed.

Fingers crossed.

On tv in Holland i saw a Thai army-man telling about drilling a new hole to get them out....

 

We'll see what they do.

[chickenslegs]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:43 PM, mok199 said:

I saw a movie once called ''The Fantastic Voyage'' they shrunk everyone down in size,borded them inside a submarine !!!....Rachel Welch has an amazing rack.!!!!.

Shrinkage was never the problem when I watched Ms Welch's movies in my teens.

[Rhys]

All the best and God speed...may all efforts come together...

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Shrinkage was never the problem when I watched Ms Welch's movies in my teens.

She's got her knockers, but I've always been a fan.