Heavy rains may force early extraction of survivors

 

 

Potential heavy rains in the next few days are forcing the rescue teams to consider extracting the 13 survivors out of Tham Luang cave sooner than they have earlier planned, chief of the rescue operation Narongsak Osotthanakorn said.

Speaking at a press briefing at around midnight, Narongsak also admitted that oxygen supply within the chamber where the 12 young footballers and their coach are sheltering has become a major concern.

 

Narongsak did not spell out specifically how the survivors would be taken out of the cave but hinted that they might have to dive their way out.  He said young soccer players have already started to learn how to dive.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/222296-2/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-07-07

this cave dive has now been described as the Mount Everest of cave dives by the international team of experts.

 

that being said, the kids don't need to learn how to "dive". they need to learn to over come their fear.

 

they need to learn how to breathe through what ever type of regulator they are provided with. that part is easy.

 

they need professional masks that fit their face and do not leak. they need to know what to do if their mask somehow gets knocked loose and leaks.

 

I wonder if they will wear wet suits? then they will have positive buoyancy.    

 

they don't even need to know how to swim, just kick with dive fins. if they have a Thai seal with them they may not even need to do that as they will just be pulled along.

 

the small boys or maybe all of the kids will have to have their tank carried for them or it will be on their backs except for the one very tight space.

 

I saw a video of this tight space and it is extremely tight for a full grow man. maybe not so for the kids. the challenge will be getting the kids through with their tanks no longer on their backs.

 

they need to rig up a "leash" for the kids to be pulled though the tight spot. 

 

I hope they have rigged up staging and rest areas at as many points as possible along the route where maybe the kids can be handed to a fresh diver. 

 

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by NCC1701A

+1 though they are saying fins not necessry.

 

Besides overcoming fear they need to be physically strong enough for an extremely taxing effort which even well nourished, fit divers find exhausting. Since heavy downpours that raise water levels can occur at any time they will need to be able to move as quickly as possible.

 

and they need to be calm, alert, and have very strong trust and confidence in the SEALs who will accompany them, able to follow instructions to the letter even when those instructions call for them to do things that natural instincts would oppose.

 

The SEAL team staying with them continuously (ideal for building trust and rapport)  and the expert divers going in & out are assessing all this. Last report was, not yet ready. Note that there is always a time lag of at least 5 hours in getting info on the situation with the boys.

this cave dive has now been described as the Mount Everest of cave dives by the international team of experts.

 

that being said, the kids don't need to learn how to "dive". they need to learn to over come their fear.

 

they need to learn how to breathe through what ever type of regulator they are provided with. that part is easy.

 

they need professional masks that fit their face and do not leak. they need to know what to do if their mask somehow gets knocked loose and leaks.

 

I wonder if they will wear wet suits? then they will have positive buoyancy.    

 

they don't even need to know how to swim, just kick with dive fins. if they have a Thai seal with them they may not even need to do that as they will just be pulled along.

 

the small boys or maybe all of the kids will have to have their tank carried for them or it will be on their backs except for the one very tight space.

 

I saw a video of this tight space and it is extremely tight for a full grow man. maybe not so for the kids. the challenge will be getting the kids through with their tanks no longer on their backs.

 

they need to rig up a "leash" for the kids to be pulled though the tight spot. 

 

I hope they have rigged up staging and rest areas at as many points as possible along the route where maybe the kids can be handed to a fresh diver. 

 

You make it sound easy. New divers can flap about and panic in easy open water conditions, in a cave a lot of experienced divers would be panicking, most BMs would in this situation. The professionals know that the panicking could cause deaths.

 

I hope those in charge don't try and wing it, one death already

 

Attempts to extract survivors may begin in next few days

 

 

Rescue teams will attempt to bring the 13 survivors out of Tham Luang cave in the next few days before the looming fresh monsoon rains flood the cave system again, chief of the rescue operation Narongsak Osotthanakorn said this morning.

 

He said the water level in the cave, the state of the health of the 12 young footballers and their coach and the weather at the moment are “most conducive” for the rescue operation.

 

Speaking at a daily briefing, Narong said all rescue plans are in place and rescue teams have been rehearsing them in the past few days. He also said additional teams of international cave diving experts are on their way to help with the rescue operation. “The are some of the world’s top experts in cave rescue,” he said.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/attempts-extract-survivors-may-begin-next-days/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-07-07

The latest BBC article I read (a few hours ago) suggests O2 levels in the Chamber are now just 15% cf. 21% normal.  This is getting into much more serious situation now unless they have rigged up a permanent Oxygen supply (i.e. a 1.5 mile long hose) from the outside (not chamber 3 which we know floods totally)... And can be sure that very high rainfall leading to very fast flowing water (possibly with air tanks that have become unsecured being carried along) will not dislodge it, if they decide on the 4 month wait option.

 

With incoming rains, this might now be the rescuers last chance to dive the boys out (and that includes all the professional divers supporting the rescue effort getting out safely as well).

 

As someone said fins are not necessary, and would really be a liability for the kids where there's more walking/scrambling required than free-swimming. (Has anyone not familiar with fins tried walking in them... and I don't mean going backwards).

 

Godspeed (meant in the Athiest manner) to them, and good luck for a safe return of all the boys and the rescuers.

Boys Should Come Out Today: Official

By Todd Ruiz, Editor

 

 

CHIANG RAI — The boys should be brought out of the cave today, the head of the rescue operation said Saturday.

 

Divers are becoming faint inside the cave where 13 people are trapped as falling oxygen, rising carbon dioxide and an expected surge in water levels pose potential disaster to the cave rescue effort.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/calamity/2018/07/07/boys-should-come-out-today-official/

 

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2018-07-07

 

I am so concerned that this might still end in disaster.

Don't even think what this would mean to the parents who were so cheerful.

 

Stay positive! They can do it although perhaps the boys should be sedated to calm them completely.

It feels like it's time to move now. Why wait? Good luck boys, the whole world is with you!

Whatever happens, I think it's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. Nobody can possibly predict the outcome and I wouldn't like to think it was me making that decision, which ever one they chose let's all hope it's the correct one. 

Thai kids are real toughies and are far smarter than people give them credit for..

 

Just do it!

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by Odysseus123

They have just been moved to a different part of the cave due to increasing water levels.


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They have just been moved to a different part of the cave due to increasing water levels.


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Where did you hear that from?

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Surely it's better to try to dive at least some of them out now - and perhaps lose 1 or 2 of them, than to leave them all in this cave for 4 months, and perhaps lose all of them plus any rescuers that volunteer to stay with them.

 

I see in a previous post, that they are moving them due to rising water levels... From what I understand from the cave maps this will entail some diving anyway, including one very tight squeeze - assuming they will be moving back to Pattaya beach.

15 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Thai kids are real toughies and are far smarter than people give them credit for..

 

Just do it!

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by NCC1701A

25 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

Stay positive! They can do it although perhaps the boys should be sedated to calm them completely.

It feels like it's time to move now. Why wait? Good luck boys, the whole world is with you!

Well, it is very important that they are coached to stay positive, confident, and optimistic especially if they are to attempt the dive (which I've heard described as the cave diving equivalent of climbing Mt. Everest without a guide). 

But here outside the cave, it makes no difference whether we stay positive or not.

Objectively speaking, they face massive risks regardless of their frame of mind. 

 

It's been pointed out before it is a bad idea to sedate them. Parts of the dive need to be done without direct help. Sedating them would be disastrous. They would need to be ALERT.

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by Jingthing

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

Not too sure, most of them were raised on a scooter, maybe with some even conceived on a scooter. 

A scooter is just an extention of themselves. 

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

I have been around for a few years and a couple of life threatening problems.

I am a very good swimmer..

I can think of nothing much worse than being in an enclosed space with a mask over my face and basically unable to see, this is what facing these kids.

Dear Nation or Thaivisa affiliate, so which one is it? Your articles are so wicky kicky conflicting....

latest Chiang Rai radar:

 

http://weather.tmd.go.th/cri.php

 

red circle is approximate cave location:

 

 

and radar loop:

 

http://weather.tmd.go.th/criLoop.php

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

I have been around for a few years and a couple of life threatening problems.

I am a very good swimmer..

I can think of nothing much worse than being in an enclosed space with a mask over my face and basically unable to see, this is what facing these kids.

How about being stuck in an enclosed space (about the size of a small room) with around 20 others, for 3-4 months, with a rising water level and nowhere to go except possibly allowing yourself to float up to the roof. With a diminishing oxygen content in the air, and possibly intermittent power for lighting & communications.  Watching your friends and brave "rescuers" also struggling to survive.

This COULD be what happens if they try to sit it out. 

 

Not an easy decision to make I agree.

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

There is a thrill and adrenalin rush flying on bike. It's not the same thing

9 minutes ago, steve73 said:

How about being stuck in an enclosed space (about the size of a small room) with around 20 others, for 3-4 months, with a rising water level and nowhere to go except possibly allowing yourself to float up to the roof. With a diminishing oxygen content in the air, and possibly intermittent power for lighting & communications.  Watching your friends and brave "rescuers" also struggling to survive.

This COULD be what happens if they try to sit it out. 

 

Not an easy decision to make I agree.

What ever decision is made with a successful outcome everyone will be heaping praise on the decision makers, should there be the even the smallest upset the TVF hounds will be braying for blood - a pretty typical response, if it works out it's all good but anything else will be put down to stupidity, typical Thai, don't know what they are doing etc. 

Not an easy decision - just hopefully it all turns out well. 

6 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

this cave dive has now been described as the Mount Everest of cave dives by the international team of experts.

 

that being said, the kids don't need to learn how to "dive". they need to learn to over come their fear.

 

they need to learn how to breathe through what ever type of regulator they are provided with. that part is easy.

 

they need professional masks that fit their face and do not leak. they need to know what to do if their mask somehow gets knocked loose and leaks.

 

I wonder if they will wear wet suits? then they will have positive buoyancy.    

 

they don't even need to know how to swim, just kick with dive fins. if they have a Thai seal with them they may not even need to do that as they will just be pulled along.

 

the small boys or maybe all of the kids will have to have their tank carried for them or it will be on their backs except for the one very tight space.

 

I saw a video of this tight space and it is extremely tight for a full grow man. maybe not so for the kids. the challenge will be getting the kids through with their tanks no longer on their backs.

 

they need to rig up a "leash" for the kids to be pulled though the tight spot. 

 

I hope they have rigged up staging and rest areas at as many points as possible along the route where maybe the kids can be handed to a fresh diver. 

 

Along those lines yes. International seal team would have advised. But I recommend the US team handle the extraction only. It won't happen but should 

Along those lines yes. International seal team would have advised. But I recommend the US team handle the extraction only. It won't happen but should 

Have they dived in these caves before?


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3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

Listen when you young you don't no what real fear is. This is dragging on. It's time to remove the fittest kid

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by Media1

I agree with some of the comments these kids are not snowflakes they play football and sports climb into caves ,i do not think they sit in internet cafes and play video games .Plus the guys on the ground seem to be doing a very good job as the one comment said do it so you can get your tickets to the WC final

5 hours ago, Topdoc said:

Stay positive! They can do it although perhaps the boys should be sedated to calm them completely.

It feels like it's time to move now. Why wait? Good luck boys, the whole world is with you!

The sedation is a great idea Doc

I never thought of that and wonder if they have

8 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

this cave dive has now been described as the Mount Everest of cave dives by the international team of experts.

 

that being said, the kids don't need to learn how to "dive". they need to learn to over come their fear.

 

they need to learn how to breathe through what ever type of regulator they are provided with. that part is easy.

 

they need professional masks that fit their face and do not leak. they need to know what to do if their mask somehow gets knocked loose and leaks.

 

I wonder if they will wear wet suits? then they will have positive buoyancy.    

 

they don't even need to know how to swim, just kick with dive fins. if they have a Thai seal with them they may not even need to do that as they will just be pulled along.

 

the small boys or maybe all of the kids will have to have their tank carried for them or it will be on their backs except for the one very tight space.

 

I saw a video of this tight space and it is extremely tight for a full grow man. maybe not so for the kids. the challenge will be getting the kids through with their tanks no longer on their backs.

 

they need to rig up a "leash" for the kids to be pulled though the tight spot. 

 

I hope they have rigged up staging and rest areas at as many points as possible along the route where maybe the kids can be handed to a fresh diver. 

 

i agree with one of the divers opinion....drug them, in other words mild sedative, so no anxiety and or drama so to speak...then just pull them out...worth a try