Am I Grandfathered In The System?

[jeffrosner]

I just started reading this site and thought the extension based on marriage to Thai supporting a Thai was not changed. This is the first I am hearing of it.

I have a one year extention based on certificate of marrage to a Thai. I am 45 and we are expecting our first child in April.

Am I grandfathered in for the next extension which would be applied mid June?

I have my own business, had over a million on the bank (here) and used that an my certificate of marriage to get the extension. I told them I make over 40,000 k a month in baht on the application which is true, but it is a sole proprietorship business.

I am the boss. I have employees working in America for me that makes that income.

Am I grandfathered or do I have to start worrying?

JR

[jeffrosner]

I just read section 7.17 in English which says to me, that if I entered the Kingdom prior to this new order, got married and got a 1 year extension, then I do not have to show income if I have none, I can show 400,000 baht in a Thai Bank for at least 3 months prior to the application.

I just had my wife read the Thai Language version and she says this is correct.

Did I read in one of the posts, that they are not honouring this?

We will have an infant by the time reapply. I first applied in September of 2006 and was granted the extension less than two months after that.

Should I not even mention that we have a baby and just apply on the basis of marriage to a Thai and I have 400,000 baht in the bank? I tranferred 400,000 baht from Bangkok Bank Passbook to a Time Deposit for 1 year. I can use that. It will have been there for 5 months by the time I apply.

Comments please!

[Phil Conners]

It was my understanding that if you're already here on a non-o-marriage visa and got it with 400k in the bank you can continue to use that rule, but who knows, TiT

I think having the money in the bank 3 months prior is only for non-o-retirement visas.

I'm sure mentionning you're the father of a Thai national can't hurt either, I sure do.

[jeffrosner]

I arrived the end of June on a non-o visa but the visa was not granted because I was married. We married a month later. My extension was granted for a 1 based on my certificate of marriage and when we told them she was already pregnant, they stopped asking probing questions.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I just read section 7.17 in English which says to me, that if I entered the Kingdom prior to this new order, got married and got a 1 year extension, then I do not have to show income if I have none, I can show 400,000 baht in a Thai Bank for at least 3 months prior to the application.

I just had my wife read the Thai Language version and she says this is correct.

Did I read in one of the posts, that they are not honouring this?

We will have an infant by the time reapply. I first applied in September of 2006 and was granted the extension less than two months after that.

Should I not even mention that we have a baby and just apply on the basis of marriage to a Thai and I have 400,000 baht in the bank? I tranferred 400,000 baht from Bangkok Bank Passbook to a Time Deposit for 1 year. I can use that. It will have been there for 5 months by the time I apply.

Comments please!

To have been 'grandfathered', your extension should have been issued prior to October 01. What date was the extension granted ?

[jeffrosner]

Exactly how did you come this conclusion? Reading the 7.17 (6) section it says I had to have entered the Kingdom prior to them putting this out, which I did. The English translation looks a bit vague but my wife read the Thai version and she concurred.

1 year extension was written into my passport on 16 Nov 2006.

So here is where it gets sticky. I entered the Kingdom Jun 29th 2006. I came on a non-o visa. I applied prior to my visa expiring, got two 30 day extensions and was granted the extension prior to Nov 16 but that is the date I went to check in to get another 30 day stamp. They instead gave me the 1 year.

The 1 year is from Jun 29th. So doesn't it technically start June 29 as it ends 1 year later? The key word here is entered the Kingdom which I did, months prior to change. I also applied for my extension prior to the change sometime in September.

Note, that the stamps in my passport are from my changing to a new passport issued one month prior. This is what it looks like when they transfer the visa stamp to a new passport. It is all written - they don't actually transfer the stamp put in by the embassy.

Edited February 4, 2007 by jeffrosner

[jeffrosner]

Here is Sunbelt's translation. It's a bit more cryptic than the one that Immigration translated but please tell me where you think I had to be "issued" the extension prior to the order. It only says I had to have been married and entered prior to - and for me both are true.

Please have your Thai speaking wife or husband read the Thai version and see if they agree that it matches the Sunbelt translation or the one from Immigration above.

Edited February 4, 2007 by jeffrosner

[Phil Conners]

I am sure it's not what you want to hear but I think the rules are quite clear: "... except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom".

I'm in a similar situation. I've been here on non-o-marriage visa for years but this year I happened to be travelling at the time of the annual renewal so I had to start all over when I came back. Though I entered the Kingdom in July, the extension was not finally approved until mid-October so I guess I'll be going with the new rules too. At least you still have the "400K in the bank" rule - you just have to deposit the money 3 months earlier.

Thai version is for non-o-retirement (according to my wife), so that's something else - but there is a reference to October 21, 2521 if that's a magic date...

[jeffrosner]

Ignore the Thai version I posted above, it isn't 7.17. This is 7.17 in Thai. Next to it is Sunbelt's translation of the last part.

Edited February 5, 2007 by jeffrosner

[jeffrosner]

I just had my wife read the Thai version. It is 7.17. She says that it is either or, if the applicant doesn't have a job, no monthly income he can show 400,000 baht in the bank.

Is she correct?

[jeffrosner]

I see Sunbelt Asia is looking - so what is it? I'm reading your translation and if my English is good, and it is, it says I have to show a bank book of 400,000 baht for at least 3 months - untouched or not ever going below 400,000 baht. Is that right?

The whole issue of when I arrived is or is not coupled to getting approved before or after the October Surprise.

Here is what is true:

I entered the Kingdom in June. I married my wife in July. I applied for the extension a week after the changes.

I was approved in November.

My wife says 400,000 baht in the bank is enough if I don't have income.

What say you?

Edited February 5, 2007 by jeffrosner

[Phil Conners]

I think the issue is the definition of "granted a permit to stay" ... I think you could say as long as you're not here illegal you have a permit to stay - the text doesn't say anything about length of stay - so I would guess logically the date of entry apply.

Then again, when did logic have anything to do with anything here

Would be interesting to hear Sunbelt's take

[lopburi3]

I just had my wife read the Thai version. It is 7.17. She says that it is either or, if the applicant doesn't have a job, no monthly income he can show 400,000 baht in the bank.

Is she correct?

That is correct for those under the grandfather rules.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I just had my wife read the Thai version. It is 7.17. She says that it is either or, if the applicant doesn't have a job, no monthly income he can show 400,000 baht in the bank.

Is she correct?

In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

This means either.

By the way, in your case, you are grandfathered in.(You applied for the extension before Oct 1st 2006) and were permitted to stay for 30 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[iosufm]

Every time i read a post from Phil Conners it reads in my mind the way Jack Nicholson would say it, strange but it adds to the fun.

May i add this hypothetical to the discussion under the assumption that he gets grandfathered in. Since he and i are both a bit under 50, does this mean that upon approval we cannot leave Thailand? When this process started i assume he, like myself, obtained a single entry non imm. o and we entered before the date the rules came into effect. So though we get an extension, that would mean that he would have to remain in Thailand for 5 years and myself for 17 years until we both reached age 50. For if we left, we would have to reapply over again from the start. Since we are under 50, that would mean we are no longer considered grandfathered in. Am i correct? I hope there is a flaw in my line of thinking for it not, what happens if there is an emergency back in a visa holders home country and that person was required to leave. What a prediciment that would be.

[lopburi3]

Why would you even think that? You can always leave on an extension of stay and keep it alive by obtaining a re-entry permit first. No change under grandfather rules. Only remembering to do so is a bit more important as you would not have a second chance at grandfather status.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Every time i read a post from Phil Conners it reads in my mind the way Jack Nicholson would say it, strange but it adds to the fun.

May i add this hypothetical to the discussion under the assumption that he gets grandfathered in. Since he and i are both a bit under 50, does this mean that upon approval we cannot leave Thailand? When this process started i assume he, like myself, obtained a single entry non imm. o and we entered before the date the rules came into effect. So though we get an extension, that would mean that he would have to remain in Thailand for 5 years and myself for 17 years until we both reached age 50. For if we left, we would have to reapply over again from the start. Since we are under 50, that would mean we are no longer considered grandfathered in. Am i correct? I hope there is a flaw in my line of thinking for it not, what happens if there is an emergency back in a visa holders home country and that person was required to leave. What a prediciment that would be.

Get a reentry permit after you obtain the extension of stay.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jeffrosner]

Get a multiple reentry permit or if you prefer, welcome to the Hotel California ....

Edited February 5, 2007 by jeffrosner

[Sunbelt Asia]

Get a multiple reentry permit or if you prefer, welcome to the Hotel California ....

Or a single reentry permit for each time you travel.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Phil Conners]

Every time i read a post from Phil Conners it reads in my mind the way Jack Nicholson would say it, strange but it adds to the fun

That was kinda the idea so I take that as a compliement, thank you

May i add this hypothetical to the discussion under the assumption that he gets grandfathered in. Since he and i are both a bit under 50, does this mean that upon approval we cannot leave Thailand? When this process started i assume he, like myself, obtained a single entry non imm. o and we entered before the date the rules came into effect. So though we get an extension, that would mean that he would have to remain in Thailand for 5 years and myself for 17 years until we both reached age 50. For if we left, we would have to reapply over again from the start. Since we are under 50, that would mean we are no longer considered grandfathered in. Am i correct? I hope there is a flaw in my line of thinking for it not, what happens if there is an emergency back in a visa holders home country and that person was required to leave. What a prediciment that would be.

As others already replied, you can get a re-entry permit. The problem in my case I didn't return until my extension had expired hence the need to go through it all again.

[jeffrosner]

Every time i read a post from Phil Conners it reads in my mind the way Jack Nicholson would say it, strange but it adds to the fun

That was kinda the idea so I take that as a compliement, thank you

May i add this hypothetical to the discussion under the assumption that he gets grandfathered in. Since he and i are both a bit under 50, does this mean that upon approval we cannot leave Thailand? When this process started i assume he, like myself, obtained a single entry non imm. o and we entered before the date the rules came into effect. So though we get an extension, that would mean that he would have to remain in Thailand for 5 years and myself for 17 years until we both reached age 50. For if we left, we would have to reapply over again from the start. Since we are under 50, that would mean we are no longer considered grandfathered in. Am i correct? I hope there is a flaw in my line of thinking for it not, what happens if there is an emergency back in a visa holders home country and that person was required to leave. What a prediciment that would be.

As others already replied, you can get a re-entry permit. The problem in my case I didn't return until my extension had expired hence the need to go through it all again.

We all have to go through it again and again every year. We still have to produce the same paperwork, the difference here is it will be slighly easier for me as I don't have to get anything from the Embassy to show income. I should be able to get a paper from the bank stating I have 400,000 baht in there and give them the same copies of documents that got me the initial extension. The only thing that has changed for me is the bank account the money is in, as I put it in a 1 year time deposit.

But we still have to get a 30 day stamp or two while Bangkok approves the application. It is year to year.

I wonder what surprises the Thais will have for us after next year's coup?

I'm looking into other countries - I hear Panama is wonderful!

[Phil Conners]

Well if you let it lapse as I did you have to start everything over again. All the paperwork, visits at home, blah blah blah. If you just renew it "all" you need is the standard pile of paperwork, copy of certificates, money in the bank etc. Much faster approval than doing the whole thing.

[jeffrosner]

Well.

I was told on my November visit that Bangkok has been told to process them quicker now. We shall see in July when I am on my first 30 day permitted to stay pending stamp - I made copies of all the paperwork with my scanner so it should take some pictures, a letter from the bank and a visit to Immigration to get the ball rolling yet again.

I don't know, Panama could be a very nice place to live. MMMmmmmmm Spanish food ...

[iosufm]

I immigrated to Panama from another country. Silly me for thinking Thailand would be the same experience for me as Panama bends over backwards to get you into the country in whichever path you want to take be it residency, temporary visits or citizenship. The coup de gras with them is the vip service you get at the airport if you are considering residency or immigrating. They have a representitive to meet you as you deboard and you're taken right past immigration to a vip lounge where you are served champagne while you wait 2 minutes for you passport to be stamped in. That's followed by a limosine ride to your hotel and the first 2 nights paid for in advance. So if anybody is getting booted out i would recommend Panama, and hey, we use the US$ as a bonus. All that being said, i love Thailand and thai people and for now i would love to raise my baby here, but it's out of my hands.

[jeffrosner]

I immigrated to Panama from another country. Silly me for thinking Thailand would be the same experience for me as Panama bends over backwards to get you into the country in whichever path you want to take be it residency, temporary visits or citizenship. The coup de gras with them is the vip service you get at the airport if you are considering residency or immigrating. They have a representitive to meet you as you deboard and you're taken right past immigration to a vip lounge where you are served champagne while you wait 2 minutes for you passport to be stamped in. That's followed by a limosine ride to your hotel and the first 2 nights paid for in advance. So if anybody is getting booted out i would recommend Panama, and hey, we use the US$ as a bonus. All that being said, i love Thailand and thai people and for now i would love to raise my baby here, but it's out of my hands.

I have to say, that if I had to choose now knowing what I know about Thai People, I would rather my child grow up in the company of Latins than the Thais. The Latins are warmhearted people who don't know what "face" is and aren't out to gut and steal from everyone who doesn't look like them.

Well.

[Maestro]

I have to say, that if I had to choose now knowing what I know about Thai People, I would rather my child grow up in the company of Latins than the Thais.

Give it a few years and then decide, together with your wife, whether to move to your home country or any other country for your children’s education.

--

Maestro

[jeffrosner]

I have to say, that if I had to choose now knowing what I know about Thai People, I would rather my child grow up in the company of Latins than the Thais.

Give it a few years and then decide, together with your wife, whether to move to your home country or any other country for your children's education.

--

Maestro

I am an American. I'm sick of the uSA and all the crap that goes on there. It is becoming little England. I can slide ride into Panama - I speak fluent Spanish. While my Thai wife won't get much Thai food, she should have no trouble speeking Englis a la gente in Panama.

I'm not doing anything yet but the inhospitality of the Thais coupled with sheer stupidity in their decisions makes me think the writing is already on the wall. They don't want us and places like Panama do.

Let's see, beautiful people - truly warm people - not out to steal from you just because they can, and lovely beaches and a decent infrastructure.

Sure, I'll hang out here a bit longer.

Maybe.

Well.

[Maestro]

...the inhospitality of the Thais coupled with sheer stupidity in their decisions...

You are perhaps relatively new in Thailand and are shocked by the differences in comparison to what you know from the Americas. This is what I used to tell my European acquaintances in Thailand when they lamented in a similar fashion: “You don’t travel half-way around the world and expect everything to be the same. This is a different people, with a different culture. If you want to be happy here, you best forget everything you know about your country or any other country, make no comparisons, accept Thailand the way it is and make the best of it.” Some could not adapt and had to be shipped home by their employers.

I moved to Thailand after some years as an expat in the Philippines and when people asked me how the two countries compared, which one I liked better, my stock answer was: “The two countries are impossible to compare; they are far too different to allow comparison.” And that’s how I genuinely felt. And I was happy in both countries.

As for you, I hope you will find a country in which to settle with your family where you will be happy.

--

Maestro

[jeffrosner]

I just had my wife read the Thai version. It is 7.17. She says that it is either or, if the applicant doesn't have a job, no monthly income he can show 400,000 baht in the bank.

Is she correct?

In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

This means either.

By the way, in your case, you are grandfathered in.(You applied for the extension before Oct 1st 2006) and were permitted to stay for 30 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Yes, you are correct. I applied for my extension to the Visa I have prior to Oct 1 it was mid September when I did it. They took it based on a letter from the bank stating I had OVER 400,000 baht deposited.

I agree with you that I should be grandfathered in the old system which will make my life a lot easier, but do tell me what the significance of granting the first 30 day extension while waiting for the 1 year extension has on the whole thing.

Are you saying that they agreed everything was Kosher and the agreement from Bangkok was just a formality?

[Sunbelt Asia]

I just had my wife read the Thai version. It is 7.17. She says that it is either or, if the applicant doesn't have a job, no monthly income he can show 400,000 baht in the bank.

Is she correct?

In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

This means either.

By the way, in your case, you are grandfathered in.(You applied for the extension before Oct 1st 2006) and were permitted to stay for 30 days.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Yes, you are correct. I applied for my extension to the Visa I have prior to Oct 1 it was mid September when I did it. They took it based on a letter from the bank stating I had OVER 400,000 baht deposited.

I agree with you that I should be grandfathered in the old system which will make my life a lot easier, but do tell me what the significance of granting the first 30 day extension while waiting for the 1 year extension has on the whole thing.

Are you saying that they agreed everything was Kosher and the agreement from Bangkok was just a formality?

They would not have given you a 30 day extension if everything wasn't kosher then on paper. They just had to verify it was correct.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com