Britain would not block death penalty for IS suspects

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The problem is, what happens when the definition of what constitutes ‘a monster’ changes?

 

Today a viscous killer, tomorrow a political enemy!

How would you define some-one who kills somebody in a cage by setting them on fire. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

How would you define some-one who kills somebody in a cage by setting them on fire. 

Why do you ask, are you looking for guidance?

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

They were British citizens when the crimes were committed. Normally they would end up being subject to British justice. If the Americans deal with it, it saves U.K. Ltd money. OK?

It's also a step towards normalising the notion of deporting 'undesirables' to brutal regimes. Then what's next? Once we are out of the EU, will the gammons rise up and demand that capital punishment is reintroduced to the UK? If we can send criminals to their deaths in other countries, why can we not kill our own?

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It's also a step towards normalising the notion of deporting 'undesirables' to brutal regimes. Then what's next? Once we are out of the EU, will the gammons rise up and demand that capital punishment is reintroduced to the UK? If we can send criminals to their deaths in other countries, why can we not kill our own?

"It's also a step towards normalising the notion of deporting 'undesirables' to brutal regimes"

 

These "undesirables" enlisted themselves into a brutal regime, if we sent them back to a brutal regime I guarentee it would be less brutal than the one they joined. 

[Grouse]

I would like to see a poll on here.

 

1) Do you support the death penalty AND Brexit

 

2) Do you want the death penalty to remain abolished in all circumstances AND support Remain

[vogie]

Just now, Grouse said:

I would like to see a poll on here.

 

1) Do you support the death penalty AND Brexit

 

2) Do you want the death penalty to remain abolished in all circumstances AND support Remain

In the UK the general consensus is split down the middle 50/50 for the death penalty, and Scott had a poll about brexit on here, the results were more in favour of leaving than the actual vote. Hope this helps.

[CG1 Blue]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I would like to see a poll on here.

 

1) Do you support the death penalty AND Brexit

 

2) Do you want the death penalty to remain abolished in all circumstances AND support Remain

The pattern is interesting, I'll give you that. I think better poll questions would be:

 

1) Do you not give a sh** how these two animals die, as long as they die, and support Brexit

2) Do you put principles above justice no matter what the circumstances are, and support Remain

 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

The pattern is interesting, I'll give you that. I think better poll questions would be:

 

1) Do you not give a sh** how these two animals die, as long as they die, and support Brexit

2) Do you put principles above justice no matter what the circumstances are, and support Remain

 

 

The question should be :

   1 . Are you a right-wing fascist Trump supporting Brexiter who likes Tommy Johnson and wants all Muslims dead

   2 . Are you a really nice friendly Lefty guy who wants to be friends with Europeans and doesnt believe in the death penalty 

[The Renegade]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I would like to see a poll on here.

 

1) Do you support the death penalty AND Brexit

What has Brexit got to do with the death penalty ?

 

Just another stupid attempt at shoehorning Brexit into everything.

 

If and / or when these creatures meet with the death penalty in the US, will you hand back your UK passport and renounce your British ( if you even have it ) Citizenship to show your disgust at the brutality of the British Government, who have, IMO, rightly revoked the British Citizenship of these barbarians.

 

Would you be up in arms if their location had been identified in Syria and a Reaper / Predator had put a rocket right between their eyeballs ?

[The Renegade]

59 minutes ago, vogie said:

How would you define some-one who kills somebody in a cage by setting them on fire. 

???

 

The liberal definition would be someone who was misguided and in need of a hug ??

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Renegade

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

The liberal definition would be someone who was misguided and need of a hug ??

The people who lock other human beings in cages then set them afire start off by believing their victims less than human, animals and therefore deserving of no human compassion.

 

Assured of their own superiority they murder without concern.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[CG1 Blue]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The question should be :

   1 . Are you a right-wing fascist Trump supporting Brexiter who likes Tommy Johnson and wants all Muslims dead

   2 . Are you a really nice friendly Lefty guy who wants to be friends with Europeans and doesnt believe in the death penalty 

And there goes your credibility...

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

The liberal definition would be someone who was misguided and need of a hug ??

That is so true.

 

This is from the Guardian.

 

Williamson said jihadist groups in Libya, Iraq and Syria were breeding grounds for plotting attacks in the UK. “Our job in terms of eliminating will not stop this year, will not stop next year – it is something we have got to continue to pursue,” he said.

His remarks put him at odds with the head of the terrorism watchdog, who recently said the UK could attempt to reintegrate young and naive jihadists who wanted to return to the UK.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/british-isis-fighters-should-be-hunted-down-and-killed-says-defence-secretary-gavin-williamson

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

And there goes your credibility...

That's what Grouse was implying with his post and I just put what he meant into other words 

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

His remarks put him at odds with the head of the terrorism watchdog, who recently said the UK could attempt to reintegrate young and naive jihadists who wanted to return to the UK.

For sure.

 

These 2 are really naive and could be integrated back into society ??

 

 

Some people really need to wake up or resign.

Edited July 24, 2018 by The Renegade

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That's what Grouse was implying with his post and I just put what he meant into other words 

Ok, my mistake (I think)

[My Thai Life]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

It is not a matter of compassion. Civilised countries just do not put people to death.

They do  in war. And these people declared war.

 

"Civilised" countries put people, especially working class people, to death in many ways.

 

It's difficult to develop nuanced discussions on forums. Politics is no longer black and white.

 

If you put these people in prison they will radicalise others, and have "prayers" 3 times a day, and have 3 or 4 square meals a day, paid for by us.

 

Execute them, they will be "martyrs", they will sit at god's table with 73 virgins (presumably all women wearing black from head to toe); we would be doing them a favour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

It's also a step towards normalising the notion of deporting 'undesirables' to brutal regimes. Then what's next? Once we are out of the EU, will the gammons rise up and demand that capital punishment is reintroduced to the UK? If we can send criminals to their deaths in other countries, why can we not kill our own?

Referendum? 

 

This is is of course exactly why we don't use referendums and why we have a representative democracy. (Thank goodness)

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

In the UK the general consensus is split down the middle 50/50 for the death penalty, and Scott had a poll about brexit on here, the results were more in favour of leaving than the actual vote. Hope this helps.

I think you rather missed my point. I am suggesting that pro hanging and pro Brexit may be correlated. We should test that.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I think you rather missed my point. I am suggesting that pro hanging and pro Brexit may be correlated. We should test that.

Although the subject is NOT about whether they should receive the death penalty , the subject is whether the UK should allow them to go on trial in a Country that has the death penalty as a punishment .

   They are not UK citizens , so let the USA deal with them how they see fit

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

The pattern is interesting, I'll give you that. I think better poll questions would be:

 

1) Do you not give a sh** how these two animals die, as long as they die, and support Brexit

2) Do you put principles above justice no matter what the circumstances are, and support Remain

 

 

2

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The question should be :

   1 . Are you a right-wing fascist Trump supporting Brexiter who likes Tommy Johnson and wants all Muslims dead

   2 . Are you a really nice friendly Lefty guy who wants to be friends with Europeans and doesnt believe in the death penalty 

I applaud your empathy!

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think you rather missed my point. I am suggesting that pro hanging and pro Brexit may be correlated. We should test that.

You don't have a point, both of your questions have already been answered, somebody as intelligent as you should have the skills to correlate both results, unless you are flaming of course. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

What has Brexit got to do with the death penalty ?

 

Just another stupid attempt at shoehorning Brexit into everything.

 

If and / or when these creatures meet with the death penalty in the US, will you hand back your UK passport and renounce your British ( if you even have it ) Citizenship to show your disgust at the brutality of the British Government, who have, IMO, rightly revoked the British Citizenship of these barbarians.

 

Would you be up in arms if their location had been identified in Syria and a Reaper / Predator had put a rocket right between their eyeballs ?

No

[Trouble]

Should have dealt with them in Syria.  No use capturing these people.  Just find some locals to shoot them and leave them to rot in the desert.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

They do  in war. And these people declared war.

 

"Civilised" countries put people, especially working class people, to death in many ways.

 

It's difficult to develop nuanced discussions on forums. Politics is no longer black and white.

 

If you put these people in prison they will radicalise others, and have "prayers" 3 times a day, and have 3 or 4 square meals a day, paid for by us.

 

Execute them, they will be "martyrs", they will sit at god's table with 73 virgins (presumably all women wearing black from head to toe); we would be doing them a favour.

Yes, nuanced discussion is difficult on here. I agree with much of what you say.

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, vogie said:

You don't have a point, both of your questions have already been answered, somebody as intelligent as you should have the skills to correlate both results, unless you are flaming of course. 

I think you rather missed my point but let's leave it at that. Others have understood my point quite clearly.

 

Trumpsters, Brexiters and hangers are the same team I suspect. Maybe I'm incorrect but I suspect my hypothesis is correct. 

 

I think the Home Secretary is shallow. He has failed to see the big picture. He should have quietly side stepped the issue if only to avoid discussions such as this

 

Incidentally, you are quite correct that both issues have been looked at individually. BUT I'm looking at the next level up, meta data if you like,

Edited July 24, 2018 by Grouse

[vogie]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think you rather missed my point but let's leave it at that. Others have understood my point quite clearly.

 

Trumpsters, Brexiters and hangers are the same team I suspect. Maybe I'm incorrect but I suspect my hypothesis is correct. 

 

I think the Home Secretary is shallow. He has failed to see the big picture. He should have quietly side stepped the issue if only to avoid discussions such as this

 

Incidentally, you are quite correct that both issues have been looked at individually. BUT I'm looking at the next level up, meta data if you like,

Who are the others that have understood your point, they certainly are not on here.

 

And trying to compare Trumpsters and Brexiteers. Do you ever read your posts what you have written the night before and feel embarrassed?

[Chomper Higgot]

On 7/24/2018 at 7:53 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Regardless of whether any of us believe that in this case this a good or a bad decision, it will have ramifications for future cases.

 

This decision will come back to haunt future ‘extradition requests’, in which people held by British authorities awaiting extradition to the US will argue in court that their extradition places them at risk of execution.

 

My prediction is the first person to make this argument will be Assange when he gets tossed onto the street by his Ecuadorian hosts. (An eviction that is currently being prepared).

 

Far better let these vile criminals rot their life in a US prison and protect one of the most valuable tools to fight crime and protect society, the extradition process.

I’ve seen nothing in this discussion that changes my view as expressed above.

 

 

[JAG]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

Trumpsters, Brexiters and hangers are the same team I suspect. Maybe I'm incorrect but I suspect my hypothesis is correct. 

 

There are no grounds for the suggestion that thinking that the UK should leave the EU means that one is automatically an enthusiast for Mr Trump, nor for being an advocate for capital punishment.

 

But there again it is not really a hypothesis is it? Rather, like so many of your posts," Grouse" it is really a "troll post" isn't it? Cleverly crafted, masquerading as informed debate, but really intended to annoy and provoke a response from those whose opinions you disagree with.

 

Returning to the topic, for what it is worth, in my opinion, these characters should have been hunted down and killed on the battlefield where they committed their atrocities.

 

But it has NOTHING to do with "Brexit" or "Trump".

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Scott