I would seriously question anyone’s judgement who as an affair wirth Diane Abbot. 

Just for Jingthing. My maternal grandmother was born in Belgium, nanny Lemmer. She died 23 years ago and only discovered 5 years ago that she was Jewish. As a kid remember my grandmother as we described, having a funny accent and she never spoke about her past. Done some research and found that her family that remained in Belgium, including 2 siblings, some aunts and uncles and cousins, were all murdered during the Holocaust, some died in Auschwitz and others in Sobibor death camp. I obtained the family records.

 

Let me tell you that I am very proud of my Jewish heritage and so are my children.

 

I do believe that having a maternal Jewish grandmother gives me the right of return to Israel. But for the meantime, I`ve become too settled in Thailand and don`t fancy immigrating to any other country.  I dare say that if many of us dig deep enough into their family trees, there will be a European Jewish ancestor there somewhere. Jews are a major part of European history and culture. Criticising another country`s politics and rhetoric falls under free speech and free opinion, similar to those that criticise Donald Trump and his policies. It`s democracy and not racial hatred.    

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by cyberfarang

Mind you May ain’t much better. But we are all losers in Thailand aren’t we. What would we know?

In Corbyn’s recent Guardian article he said:

“In the 1970s some on the left mistakenly argued that “Zionism is racism”. That was wrong, but to assert that “anti-Zionism is racism” now is wrong too."

 

Is that the hub of the current kerfuffle?

 

The view that Israel is an apartheid state, based on occupation, seems to be one that is supported by international legal judgements. Is this considered to be an anti-semitic view? My understanding is that there are plenty of Jews who subscribe to this view.

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by My Thai Life

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

I would seriously question anyone’s judgement who as an affair wirth Diane Abbot. 

Actually its Diane Abbot's judgment which is more in question.

16 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Britain's Labour leader sees 'real problem' of anti-Semitism in party

Every time he looks in a mirror I’d imagine. 

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I see this as a hopeful sign. Purge labour of their very real antisemitism problem will only serve to strengthen their movement over time. That is, if it's more than just lip service. OK, chances are it's just lip service but keep an open mind for now. 

I wouldn't bother. Lip service is as far as it will go. The Hard Left has embraced populism and not only difficult to distinguish from the Hard Right but stealing their clothes, particularly the historically low-hanging fruit of anti-Semitism which was the driving force of the Nazis in the 20s and 30s. As JK Rowling put it, some of these people (and one or two of them on this thread) could easily flip to a fascist party if the moment came.

I wouldn't bother. Lip service is as far as it will go. The Hard Left has embraced populism and not only difficult to distinguish from the Hard Right but stealing their clothes, particularly the historically low-hanging fruit of anti-Semitism which was the driving force of the Nazis in the 20s and 30s. As JK Rowling put it, some of these people (and one or two of them on this thread) could easily flip to a fascist party if the moment came.

You're right about the dangerous populism on the right and left but I still think it's a positive sign that Labour seems to be at least acknowledging the problem exists. That's a step up from complete denial.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Large numbers of western Jews (typically a majority, in the US the vast majority) are both politically more on the left / liberal and also supportive of Israel's right to exist and defend herself.

As Corbyn said in his Guardian interview “In the 1970s some on the left mistakenly argued that “Zionism is racism”. That was wrong, but to assert that “anti-Zionism is racism” now is wrong too."  Seems fair enough to me.

 

Israel is recognised internationally as an apartheid state based on occupation. Many Jews subscribe to this view too. As do many in the Labour Party. This is not anti-semitism.

 

49 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Every time he looks in a mirror I’d imagine. 

Oddly enough, I thought the same thing.

*Deleted post edited out*

 

I suggest you have a look at the resurgence of anti-semitism in the UK. It coincides with the influx of some very nasty groups of people who have their own agendas. It also coincided with some other  problems. The anti-semitism we see today is a vehicle used to shield another agenda; an attack upon the culture of the UK.

 

There has always been  anti-semitism in the UK, much as there has always been prejudice against  Catholics, blacks, Indians, Arabs and of course the "colonies". However, it was always tempered by the sense of fair play that even the worst of the bigots inherently possessed. The UK was distinguished by its kindness to animals and respect for these animals was a reflection of the civility and kindness to others that was a cornerstone of the UK civilization, even though there were some bad things that occurred.  That social fabric is frayed, and shredded. Today, one is going to be held accountable for a bigoted comment about Asians or Blacks, but  hateful comments  about Christians and Jews still continue with nary a reprimand. It's not okay to ridicule a fat black lady, but it is okay to ridicule a fat white guy. It's okay to denigrate Christians  and their festivals, but say a word about the public slaughtering of terrified sheep and goat for an Islamic festival and one is called a bigot.

 

In the past 25 years there has been a shift in UK sentiment as certain ethnic groups and political groups become dominant. It is no great secret that as riots gripped the UK in the 1980's from Mosside to Dewsbury  the anti Jew/anti Israel  manifestations grew. I offer that the new antisemitism is a means of unifying  political groups as they march on towards their ultimate goal of changing the UK.

 

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

With the Labour party thing, this is mostly political, between pro Israel and pro Palestinian supporters. The majority of anti Jewish propaganda and attacks in the UK and Europe today, are perpetrated by Muslims. Some areas of European cities have become no go areas for Jews with high settlements of Muslim immigrants. 

Wow. Someone knows. Sometimes I don't think people in TVF  are aware, but  I am sometimes surprised.

 

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

As Corbyn said in his Guardian interview “In the 1970s some on the left mistakenly argued that “Zionism is racism”. That was wrong, but to assert that “anti-Zionism is racism” now is wrong too."  Seems fair enough to me.

 

Israel is recognised internationally as an apartheid state based on occupation. Many Jews subscribe to this view too. As do many in the Labour Party. This is not anti-semitism.

The use of the term apartheid state is inappropriate and is an intentionally hateful statement. The term is an invention solely to promote hatred of Israel. Apartheid refers to institutionalized racial segregation and the denial of basic civil rights.  Israeli Arabs and muslims have the right to vote, serve in parliament, have equal access to  public facilities including public transit, schools, universities and hospitals, and receive the same welfare benefits and pensions as other qualifying Israelis. 21% of the population of Israel is Arab and they have the same legal and civil rights as other Israelis, including having Arabic as an official language.

 

Idiots of all political stripes get elected in Israel, including communists, fundamentalist jews and muslims, and ignorant right wing bigots. They can say a lot of things, but they can't do much if their actions go against the constitution or the existing civil rights laws. Time after time, these people get shut down by the courts, just as they are in the EU and North America. Because  some political groups push an agenda does not mean it is right or  is in effect.

 

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by Scott

20 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

The use of the term apartheid state is inappropriate and is an intentionally hateful statement. The term is an invention solely to promote hatred of Israel.

Uh no. It's an accurate description of Israel for many of the ethnic Arabs and muslims in Israel, and for many  neutral international observers.

 

The idea that ethnic Arabs or muslims in Israel have equal access to state services is a blatant lie. Witness the politicians quitting the parliament in disgust in the last week or or two.

 

The housing policy is particularly humane and equal-access isn't it? It's a parody of democracy, a terrible tragedy for Arabs and for Jews who have any morals.

 

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by My Thai Life

Racist, troll posts and replies removed. 

 

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

As Corbyn said in his Guardian interview “In the 1970s some on the left mistakenly argued that “Zionism is racism”. That was wrong, but to assert that “anti-Zionism is racism” now is wrong too."  Seems fair enough to me.

Israel is recognised internationally as an apartheid state based on occupation. Many Jews subscribe to this view too. As do many in the Labour Party. This is not anti-semitism.

Even when Corbyn acknowledges publicly that there is a problem, his cheerleader claque chime in with the 'no there is no problem' trope. Dishonestly painting the issue as something else when there are innumerable examples within the Labour Party of members pushing an anti-Semitic agenda is straightforwardly an insidious cover-up. Its not a case of 'see no evil', its a refusal to give up on an opportunist populist bandwagon which they think is going to pay dividends as did the fascists in the 20s. The issue that binds the lower classes. Why let the Hard Right run with this old line? Capture it for the Left. That is what a significant part of the Labour Party is coming to and no dressing up is going to offset the growing stink of these one single issue obsessives. As it has always been.

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by SheungWan

 I claim ignorance, but exactly how is the labor party antisemitic?

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

 I claim ignorance, but exactly how is the labor party antisemitic?

Those claiming faux 'ignorance' are invariably playing games and maybe should also apply for the label of intellectually shallow. Going fishing with tainted bait. Typical of the two-sided jumper. Populism generates them like scattered confetti.

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Even when Corbyn acknowledges publicly that there is a problem, his cheerleader claque chime in with the 'no there is no problem' trope. Dishonestly painting the issue as something else when there are innumerable examples within the Labour Party of members pushing an anti-Semitic agenda is straightforwardly an insidious cover-up. Its not a case of 'see no evil', its a refusal to give up on an opportunist populist bandwagon which they think is going to pay dividends as did the fascists in the 20s. The issue that binds the lower classes. Why let the Hard Right run with this old line? Capture it for the Left. That is what a significant part of the Labour Party is coming to and no dressing up is going to offset the growing stink of these one single issue obsessives. As it has always been.

IMO anti-Semitism is not a vote winner. In fact just the opposite. Hence the concerted effort to smear Corbyn as an anti-Semite by people with vested interests who don't want him to become PM.

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by dexterm

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Why aren't white Christian folk allowed a 'home country'?

 

 

 

Because Catholics and Protestants (and who knows what other "Christian" sects) would start arguing about what was the "real" Christianity and who were the "true" Christians........and start massacring each other.....again?

 

And because then, after one side had gained an ascendancy, it would start massacring all the atheists and "doubters".

 

And then turn upon the "believers" who failed to show enough "devotion" to the "True Faith".

 

That's what non-secular states tend towards.

 

People who live in such states (today, now, in various parts of the world) are being persecuted and killed because they want to take their countries away from the sort of primitivism which you advocate.

 

Which is why modern, developed, people, look forward to a secular world in which no such state exists.

 

 

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by Enoon

42 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Those claiming faux 'ignorance' are invariably playing games and maybe should also apply for the label of intellectually shallow. Going fishing with tainted bait. Typical of the two-sided jumper. Populism generates them like scattered confetti.

 Very poetic, but it does not answer the question.

The claim is "existential threat",

  "Last week, Jewish newspapers said Labour would represent an "existential threat to Jewish life in this country" if it won power.  " 

So what is Labor doing or would do that presents an "existential threat"  in Britain??

54 minutes ago, Enoon said:

Which is why modern, developed, people, look forward to a secular world in which no such state exists.

 

But it hasn't worked because they have all made potential Muslim states.

Now Corbyn has become obsessed with fantasy Jewish complaints.

Edited August 4, 20187 yr by BritManToo

18 hours ago, ezzra said:

Again, have you forgotten the British mandate in Palestine 1923-1948 where boats laden with Nazi refugees has been imprisoned, and turned back to nazi germany while in Palestine itself the British sided with the local arab population against the uprising jewish guerrilla groups, imprisoning and hanging many accused of subversive acts against the british, so yes, let's just say that jews were never the darling of the british people, they were tolerated that's all.... 

You forget that those were colonial administrations run by the UK. The last thing they wanted was the headache more violence and turmoil in these territories. 

13 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Thing is...Corbyn and his Momentum cronies are anti-Jewish and have made zero attempt to conceal it for decades. Only now are they trying the denial game and wanting to "draw a line under it" etc. because beyond their wildest dreams they have somehow got control of the Labour party for now. It is well documented Jeremy how much of a treasonous creep you are and it seems all those misdeeds in the past are rightly coming home to catch up with you. What goes around comes around you fascist and illiberal liberal.

The only documentation I see here is what you've written and how it establishes not the creepiness and irrationality of Corbyn but rather the author of this post.

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

*Deleted post edited out*

 

I suggest you have a look at the resurgence of anti-semitism in the UK. It coincides with the influx of some very nasty groups of people who have their own agendas. It also coincided with some other  problems. The anti-semitism we see today is a vehicle used to shield another agenda; an attack upon the culture of the UK.

 

There has always been  anti-semitism in the UK, much as there has always been prejudice against  Catholics, blacks, Indians, Arabs and of course the "colonies". However, it was always tempered by the sense of fair play that even the worst of the bigots inherently possessed. The UK was distinguished by its kindness to animals and respect for these animals was a reflection of the civility and kindness to others that was a cornerstone of the UK civilization, even though there were some bad things that occurred.  That social fabric is frayed, and shredded. Today, one is going to be held accountable for a bigoted comment about Asians or Blacks, but  hateful comments  about Christians and Jews still continue with nary a reprimand. It's not okay to ridicule a fat black lady, but it is okay to ridicule a fat white guy. It's okay to denigrate Christians  and their festivals, but say a word about the public slaughtering of terrified sheep and goat for an Islamic festival and one is called a bigot.

 

In the past 25 years there has been a shift in UK sentiment as certain ethnic groups and political groups become dominant. It is no great secret that as riots gripped the UK in the 1980's from Mosside to Dewsbury  the anti Jew/anti Israel  manifestations grew. I offer that the new antisemitism is a means of unifying  political groups as they march on towards their ultimate goal of changing the UK.

 

Wow. Someone knows. Sometimes I don't think people in TVF  are aware, but  I am sometimes surprised.

 

The use of the term apartheid state is inappropriate and is an intentionally hateful statement. The term is an invention solely to promote hatred of Israel. Apartheid refers to institutionalized racial segregation and the denial of basic civil rights.  Israeli Arabs and muslims have the right to vote, serve in parliament, have equal access to  public facilities including public transit, schools, universities and hospitals, and receive the same welfare benefits and pensions as other qualifying Israelis. 21% of the population of Israel is Arab and they have the same legal and civil rights as other Israelis, including having Arabic as an official language.

 

Idiots of all political stripes get elected in Israel, including communists, fundamentalist jews and muslims, and ignorant right wing bigots. They can say a lot of things, but they can't do much if their actions go against the constitution or the existing civil rights laws. Time after time, these people get shut down by the courts, just as they are in the EU and North America. Because  some political groups push an agenda does not mean it is right or  is in effect.

 

wrong

ion

Discrimination Against Israeli Arabs Still Rampant, 10 Years On

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-did-the-earth-shake-it-did-not-1.5343496

After reading all these and other threads regarding Muslims ,i see that most of the Muslim apologists on here do not like the Jews , surprise surprise .

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

wrong

ion

Discrimination Against Israeli Arabs Still Rampant, 10 Years On

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-did-the-earth-shake-it-did-not-1.5343496

LOL. An opinion headline in Haaretz is not much of an argument.  Discrimination is not apartheid. Jews suffer discrimination in Israel too. It can be because of their race, their ethnic heritage, their financial status, a  disability etc. Israelis are not immune to the human defects of ignorance and prejudice.

Do you accuse Muslims  in Manchester or Birmingham of apartheid by creating  defacto muslim only areas, or of imposing their religious practices/beliefs on others by not allowing schools to celebrate Christmas or to wish others a Merry Christmas?

 

21 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

After reading all these and other threads regarding Muslims ,i see that most of the Muslim apologists on here do not like the Jews , surprise surprise .

‘Muslim apologists’

 

Kind of sets your comment in the context of where your own head is.

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 That social fabric is frayed, and shredded. Today, one is going to be held accountable for a bigoted comment about Asians or Blacks, but  hateful comments  about Christians and Jews still continue with nary a reprimand.

What about hateful and bigoted comments about white men?

Middle-class white men are probably the most publicly hated group in the western world.

Edited August 5, 20187 yr by BritManToo

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What about hateful and bigoted comments about white men?

Middle-class white men are probably the most publicly hated group in the western world.

I can live with that, though.

White men are the most successful and civilized species on earth.

We built great empires, conquered and colonized the entire planet. Built infrastructure, schools, modern health care and a proper legal system for our subjects. Our magnificent inventions - cars, airplanes, vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers, televisions, semiconductors, computers, internet, smartphones - have benefited mankind. For that we receive no gratitude, only envy and bitter resentment. Everyone dresses like us and wants to learn English. Migrants flock to our countries to benefit from our generous welfare handouts and legal protection.

White privilege? White achievement!

4 minutes ago, chippendale said:

I can live with that, though.

White men are the most successful and civilized species on earth.

We built great empires, conquered and colonized the entire planet. Built infrastructure, schools, modern health care and a proper legal system for our subjects. Our magnificent inventions - cars, airplanes, vaccines, antibiotics, painkillers, televisions, semiconductors, computers, internet, smartphones - have benefited mankind. For that we receive no gratitude, only envy and bitter resentment. Everyone dresses like us and wants to learn English. Migrants flock to our countries to benefit from our generous welfare handouts and legal protection.

White privilege? White achievement!

Great achievements.

 

And none your own.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Great achievements.

 

And none your own.

Your envy of white achievements is sad but understandable.

 

Proud of my most civilized and highly-evolved culture that has produced all these wonderful inventions and gifts to humanity.