Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45130532

 

.....and now the internal investigation. 

All part of his master plan. 

Oh no! I can hear the smack of the rubber gloves from here! ?

[My Thai Life]

14 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Liberals embrace what should be the greatest symbol of anti liberalism in the name of diversity and claim the real oppressors are westerners, whose logical disdain for such practices must be rooted in hate of anything not western in origin

100% agreed, and I'm a lifelong liberal. Any "liberal" who condones such an illiberal culture is a PC pseudo liberal who has lost sight of what liberalism is.

 

They should go and stay in Saudi, and see what it's really about.

 

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

They may well do - I don't know, I have never felt the need to consult it. But then I don't suppose that the uniformed officials who confiscated my Rosary, (which was in a pouch remember, not being openly displayed) had either. As for the plain clothes official who so grudgingly returned it, maybe he had a clearer understanding of the rules, whatever they are. 

I felt the desire to consult it as I didn't know whether or not Kuwait did what you said as matter of policy. Perhaps they're like Thai IO, different every port.

 

p.s. wasn't questioning your story.

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Let's see how we're all doing in 20 yrs time... My guess is, we'll all be practising Islam or dead ?

Ridiculous. There may be tension for sure but Europe will not be practicing Islam.

The 4% Muslim population of Europe will overwhelm the vast majority of people in 20 years?

What idiocy.

[duanebigsby]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

Time to ban the veil all over Europe, has no place in western society !

And the backwards baseball hat and trousers that show your ass crack.

[duanebigsby]

Personally, I don't like the Burka or veil. I think it's a left over from patriarchal societies dictating a corrupt interpretation of religious dogma. Basic misogyny.

 

But if women choose to wear it it, I believe  the right to wear it, should be acknowledged.

In Denmark this BIG  law is directed at perhaps 250-300 people.

[JAG]

21 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I felt the desire to consult it as I didn't know whether or not Kuwait did what you said as matter of policy. Perhaps they're like Thai IO, different every port.

 

p.s. wasn't questioning your story.

Sure, no problem - quite possibly it was a security official who got a bit overenthusiastic?

I have to say that Kuwait struck me as being a distinctly joyless place! The plainclothes fellow who returned it to me was straight out of "central casting"!

Edited August 9, 2018 by JAG

[duanebigsby]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

Sure, no problem - quite possibly it was a security official who got a bit overenthusiastic?

I have to say that Kuwait struck me as being a distinctly joyless place!

I lived in Egypt 78-79 and it was very liberal. That was when  Jimmy Carter/Sadat happened to create the first uneasy peace. Because of Sadat's wife's women's movement stuff it was quite modern thinking then. Very few head coverings other than a scarf.

[My Thai Life]

8 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

But if women choose to wear it it, I believe  the right to wear it, should be acknowledged.

I respectfully can't agree. In many of their countries of origin it's against the muslim law not to wear it, punishable by beating from hubby or daddy.

 

In this context the term "choose" has no meaning.

 

 

[duanebigsby]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Don't be silly

 

Nobody minds a small crucifix or even a turban. What ever turns you on. But wearing a huge black bag with s slot is beyond the pale. It is insulting and impolite. It makes the world an uglier place. If you want to ear a burka inside your synagogue or wherever you gather, up to you. I don't wish to see it. I am no hypocrite; I am a bigot.

Agreed with your last four words 100% but I suspect troll.

[duanebigsby]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I respectfully can't agree. In many of their countries of origin it's against the muslim law not to wear it, punishable by beating from hubby or daddy.

 

In this context the term "choose" has no meaning.

 

 

In this context, they have absolute choice because they simply are not in their former countries.

 

The laws of their former countries have zero bearing in their new locations.

 

Therefore, they have choice.

[My Thai Life]

2 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

In this context, they have absolute choice because they simply are not in their former countries.

 

The laws of their former countries have zero bearing in their new locations.

This is naive in the extreme. They are living in muslim areas surrounded by muslim traditions and often muslim law enforced under the radar, often unable to speak the host country language. I don't know where you're from, but this scenario is common in the UK and many parts of Europe.

 

Muslim immigration into north America is quite different.

 

You cannot shake off years of ingrained mental slavery by just moving to a new country.

[My Thai Life]

Back to Boris.

 

He's obviously working from the Bannon playbook (haven't they recently been confabulating?).

 

The UK political system is very different from the US, so what worked in the US may not work in the UK.

 

But The Guardian today reports that Boris's base has responded very positively to his comments, even though the establishment has reacted negatively.

 

He'll need to walk the tightrope between maintaining enough Tory Party support to become leader, while stirring up the base to win an election with a mandate for god knows what!

 

With a hard brexit Brexit, his chances go up substantially. 

[Grouse]

27 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Agreed with your last four words 100% but I suspect troll.

Not at all, I speak my truth...

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Not at all, I speak my truth...

 Which in this matter appears to be "Anyone can wear what they like, as long as they are not Muslims."

 

Perhaps you'd like us all in red shirts with brown armbands? No, that would be too garish, you seem to prefer darker shades; maybe the other way round?

 

Then what? Round up all the Muslims into special camps while we seek a final solution to the Muslim problem?

 

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

I respectfully can't agree. In many of their countries of origin it's against the muslim law not to wear it, punishable by beating from hubby or daddy.

 

In this context the term "choose" has no meaning.

 

 

 Care to name which countries?

 

A head covering of some sort, e.g. a hijab, is compulsory for women when in public in Saudi, Iran and Aceh province of Indonesia, but not a full burka or niqab.

 

There is nothing in the Koran or the hadiths which require a woman to cover her hair, let alone her face. Like the Torah and Old and New Testaments, it merely states that women, and men, should dress modestly. 

 

 

 

[blazes]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Care to name which countries?

 

A head covering of some sort, e.g. a hijab, is compulsory for women when in public in Saudi, Iran and Aceh province of Indonesia, but not a full burka or niqab.

 

There is nothing in the Koran or the hadiths which require a woman to cover her hair, let alone her face. Like the Torah and Old and New Testaments, it merely states that women, and men, should dress modestly. 

 

 

 

 

The Koran this, the Bible that....one of the amusing, if paradoxical, elements of this useless thread in which no one is ever going to change anyone else's mind, is the frequency with which people resort to scriptural authority.  I wouldn't mind betting that less than 5% of contributors to ThaiVisa have ever been caught quoting a scriptural text seriously.

 

The thread is useless cos Boris was careful to emphasize that he did not advocate the banning of any particular form of dress.  He merely held the (surely sane) opinion that the burqa is a ludicrous item of clothing. 

(There is also the question of security...when I have been on the Paris Metro I have often been slightly apprehensive when standing next to a burqa-clad woman, wondering what the eff she had on beneath all that black. Granted in the old days, I might have thought the same about nuns in their penguin suits, but then Christians were not at that time in the ..er...habit of detonating bombs in public places.)

[7by7]

3 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Just out of interest and not bothered either way in this debate or the fate of Boris and the impending fatwa on his miserable head is it ok to wear a KKK outfit around town or is this banned just saying ?

 

 

As far as I can discover, though I stand to be corrected, the KKK is not a proscribed organisation in the UK.

 

Therefore, wearing KKK uniform in the UK wont get you in trouble with the law.

 

It didn't for this bloke: Ku Klux Klan fancy-dress row student is picked for Oxford in the Boat Race

 

Personally, I think wearing one for fun to be in poor taste, the same as wearing a Nazi uniform; but as i hope I have made clear I am not one to dictate to others what they can and cannot wear.

 

Wearing it in order to stir up hatred against others is a different matter; and would probably leave one open to charges under the Race and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

 

If the KKK is a proscribed organisation, then the wearer could be open to charges under the Terrorism Act 2006; the Act Anjem Choudray was convicted under.

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

The Koran this, the Bible that....one of the amusing, if paradoxical, elements of this useless thread in which no one is ever going to change anyone else's mind, is the frequency with which people resort to scriptural authority.  I wouldn't mind betting that less than 5% of contributors to ThaiVisa have ever been caught quoting a scriptural text seriously.

 

 I was merely pointing out, again, that all the criticisms some members direct at Muslims about dress can apply equally to the other two Abrahamic religions.

 

Certain members are quick to say that every evil deed committed by a Muslim is due to their doing what the Koran tells them to; which is, of course absolute pony.

 

As is the assertion repeated many times in this topic that the Koran says women should be covered from head to toe.

 

18 minutes ago, blazes said:

The thread is useless cos Boris was careful to emphasize that he did not advocate the banning of any particular form of dress.  He merely held the (surely sane) opinion that the burqa is a ludicrous item of clothing. 

Indeed, Boris did not advocate a burka ban in the UK; the opposite in fact.

 

A fact which has escaped some members here; probably because, as usual, they haven't bothered to read the article, just the headlines about it.

 

Do I think Burkas and niqabs look ridiculous? Yes. But I also think many other ways of dressing, such as men wearing jeans with the crotch around their knees exposing the top of their underwear, or worse their bum crack, equally if not more ridiculous.

 

But what other people wear is their choice, not mine.

22 minutes ago, blazes said:

(There is also the question of security...when I have been on the Paris Metro I have often been slightly apprehensive when standing next to a burqa-clad woman, wondering what the eff she had on beneath all that black. Granted in the old days, I might have thought the same about nuns in their penguin suits, but then Christians were not at that time in the ..er...habit of detonating bombs in public places.)

There has  never, as far as I am aware, been a case of anyone in Europe hiding a bomb under a burka or niqab. Although I understand it has happened in Afghanistan.

 

The July 2007 bombers didn't hide their bombs under burkas, they hid them in rucksacks. Which suggests you should be more afraid of South Asian men with rucksacks than women wearing burkas!

 

I lived through the Troubles, when Christians were regularly killing not just each other but innocent members of the public in atrocities in all parts of the UK. Friends of mine were in the Horse and Groom when the IRA bomb went off; I would have been there with them had I not been delayed. But I wasn't afraid every time I heard a Northern Irish accent!

 

Maybe I'm made of sterner stuff than you?

 

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

8 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

Ridiculous. There may be tension for sure but Europe will not be practicing Islam.

The 4% Muslim population of Europe will overwhelm the vast majority of people in 20 years?

What idiocy.

 

But you wouldn't bet your house against it ?

[cornishcarlos]

7 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

In this context, they have absolute choice because they simply are not in their former countries.

 

The laws of their former countries have zero bearing in their new locations.

 

Therefore, they have choice.

 

That's the first sensible thing you have said in this thread...

 

They simply are not in their country.

The laws of their former country have no bearing on their new location...

 

Boom... (no pun intended)

 

Assimilate or go back 

[My Thai Life]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

A head covering of some sort, e.g. a hijab, is compulsory for women when in public in Saudi, Iran and Aceh province of Indonesia, but not a full burka or niqab.

I've worked in Saudi Arabia for years, you are wrong.

 

The bigger issue is that Saudi Arabia is exporting its Wahabbist version of Islam throughout the muslim and non-muslim world via a highly organised and well-financed campaign, and has been for decades. There is an army of imams in Saudi producing nothing but revised koranic Wahabbist propaganda for export. Such propaganda condones the killing of christians and jews (previously they had been protected  as part of the "People of the Book" Abrahamic nonsense); of course it's always been ok to kill anyone else if you're a Wahabbi.

 

This is why you have seen a very visible change in the way many muslim women dress over the last 50 years, and an increase in muslim terrorism. ISIS were Wahabbists.

 

The woeful plight of women in many of these countries is not going to helped by well-meaning but misguided "liberal"s in the west.

 

Please do a bit more travelling, or a bit more research, and try to get the bigger picture.

 

[cornishcarlos]

5 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Please do a bit more travelling, or a bit more research, and try to get the bigger picture.

 

I've tried to travel all these countries, in my mankini and full face helmet !! 

They don't let me... It really offends me

[notmyself]

3 hours ago, blazes said:

The Koran this, the Bible that....one of the amusing, if paradoxical, elements of this useless thread in which no one is ever going to change anyone else's mind, is the frequency with which people resort to scriptural authority.  I wouldn't mind betting that less than 5% of contributors to ThaiVisa have ever been caught quoting a scriptural text seriously.

 

lol Define seriously.

 

[My Thai Life]

9 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

Ridiculous. There may be tension for sure but Europe will not be practicing Islam.

The 4% Muslim population of Europe will overwhelm the vast majority of people in 20 years?

What idiocy.

Please consider

> muslim leaders - eg Erdogan, Gadaffi, have called on muslims worldwide to achieve by breeding what they were not able to do by the sword - to destroy the west

> the immigrant muslim population in the UK is breeding much more than ethnic Britons

> in some areas of the UK, ethnic Britons already are overwhelmed.

thankyou.

[Opl]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Which in this matter appears to be "Anyone can wear what they like, as long as they are not Muslims."

 

Perhaps you'd like us all in red shirts with brown armbands? No, that would be too garish, you seem to prefer darker shades; maybe the other way round?

 

Then what? Round up all the Muslims into special camps while we seek a final solution to the Muslim problem?

 

 

Your last phrase is quite offensive both towards Britain, and towards the victims of the Holocaust.

All your efforts make it clear you believe any criticism of Islam, its practices and customs should be prohibited, even in western societies where concern about Islam and Islamist extremists influence is quite understandable.

 

[pattayadgw]

Boris for PM... YES!!

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Please consider

> muslim leaders - eg Erdogan, Gadaffi, have called on muslims worldwide to achieve by breeding what they were not able to do by the sword - to destroy the west

> the immigrant muslim population in the UK is breeding much more than ethnic Britons

> in some areas of the UK, ethnic Britons already are overwhelmed.

thankyou.

Anyone who knows anything about Gaddafi knows that for most 35 years of his 45 year reign  he was not a champion of Islam. In fact, he promoted his Little Green Book as the fount of wisdom, not the Koran. He was decidedly un-Islamist and often charged with heresy.. It was only sometime in the first decade of the 21st century that he began spouting Islamist rhetoric.

As for Erdogan, I look in vain for him calling on Muslims to outbreed the west and destroy it. 

As for the Muslim birth rate in the UK. Even if it continues at projected levels and immigration does likewise, it is projected that by 2050 Muslims will be 16.7 percent of the population.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/muslim-population-uk-could-triple-13m-following-record-influx/

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, pattayadgw said:

Boris for PM... YES!!

Odd how unenthusiastic he seems in trying to claim the position. Do you think that maybe he doesn't want to be associated with the results of Brexit?

[My Thai Life]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As for the Muslim birth rate in the UK. Even if it continues at projected levels and immigration does likewise, it is projected that by 2050 Muslims will be 16.7 percent of the population.

16.7% by 2050, from 4.4% in the 2011 census. A 400% increase. I think you've proven my point perfectly, thanks.

 

Gadaffi

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

 

Erdogan

"Calling Turks the “future of Europe,” Turkey’s president on Friday implored his compatriots living on the Continent to have multiple children as an act of revenge against the West’s “injustices.”"

 

Wake up.