Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[My Thai Life]

 

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I have said all along I oppose imposed dress codes and legislation restricting the right to choose. 

Their garb is Saudi Wahabbi. That particular sect does not give the woman a right to chose her dress, but it does give the male the right to punish her for non-conformance.

 

The World Economic Forum's 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity.

 

However you try to rationalise your support of this dress code you are actually supporting the most misogynistic culture on earth.

 

I would urge all "liberals" here to do a bit more research and a bit more thinking about this.

Edited August 10, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I really think it would be nice if these people tried to intigrate a little, but the whole country is becoming us and them. But maybe you agree with Dianne Abbott that "the problem with Britain is the white people."

I’d agree Johnson chose comments with the deliberate intent of stirring controversy and promoting division.

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

 

Their garb is Saudi Wahabbi. That particular sect does not give the woman a right to chose her dress, but it does give the male the right to punish her for non-conformance.

 

The World Economic Forum's 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity.

 

However you try to rationalise your support of this dress code you are actually supporting the most misogynistic culture on earth.

 

I would urge all "liberals" here to do a bit more research and a bit more thinking about this.

All I am supporting is the right to choose. 

[My Thai Life]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

All I am supporting is the right to choose. 

I understand that's what you think you are doing.

 

My point is simple - women who "belong" to this sect do not have the right to chose. I hope you will try to understand this.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

 

Their garb is Saudi Wahabbi. That particular sect does not give the woman a right to chose her dress, but it does give the male the right to punish her for non-conformance.

 

The World Economic Forum's 2016 Global Gender Gap Report ranked Saudi Arabia 141 out of 144 countries for gender parity.

 

However you try to rationalise your support of this dress code you are actually supporting the most misogynistic culture on earth.

 

I would urge all "liberals" here to do a bit more research and a bit more thinking about this.

Once again nobody is supporting this mode of dress, the issue is the right to choose.

 

You can’t tell women what they can’t wear and still claim to support their rights to choose for themselves.

 

 

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

All I am supporting is the right to choose. 

"the right to choose" unconditional submission to the will and dictates set by the Sharia in a non-muslim country with totally different values  

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

I understand that's what you think you are doing.

 

My point is simple - women who "belong" to this sect do not have the right to chose. I hope you will try to understand this.

You know that because you’ve asked them?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, simple1 said:

The OP is in reality pandering by an opportunistic politician.

 

All democratic societies include freedom of religion and freedom of expression, so long as no harm caused. As already mentioned IMO same security policies should be applied as for full face helmets which I understand is already enacted.

 

To repeat, domestic violence legislation is already enacted to deal with misogynist violence, oppression being a form of violence. Banning female face covering in all public places will not stop or hinder misogyny. 

Whilst I agree about Boris "pandering by an opportunistic politician",  I disagree (in particular) with the third paragraph

 

Legislation only works when the abused is willing to report the abuse, and we already know this rarely happens as the abused woman is too frightened of her husband.

 

Multiply this by 'x' when the abused woman also knows that her family and community agree that she is inferior, and must accept their values...

 

IIRC, there have already (quite correctly!) been laws passed to protect school age Moslem girls from the rules insisted upon by their parents (in school)?  But I could be wrong about this.

 

Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds'.

 

I'm at a loss as to why any woman would genuinely want to wear the nikab or hijab - and the only explanation I've heard is that 'it prevents men from looking at me as a sexual object' (or something along those lines) ?.

 

 

[roobaa01]

it is wrong to say it was freedom of expression to wear the veil for it expresses the desire to bother and provoke the public. thereto next step in the uk veil banning coming after brexit.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Whilst I agree about Boris "pandering by an opportunistic politician",  I disagree (in particular) with the third paragraph

 

Legislation only works when the abused is willing to report the abuse, and we already know this rarely happens as the abused woman is too frightened of her husband.

 

Multiply this by 'x' when the abused woman also knows that her family and community agree that she is inferior, and must accept their values...

 

IIRC, there have already (quite correctly!) been laws passed to protect school age Moslem girls from the rules insisted upon by their parents (in school)?  But I could be wrong about this.

 

Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds'.

 

I'm at a loss as to why any woman would genuinely want to wear the nikab or hijab - and the only explanation I've heard is that 'it prevents men from looking at me as a sexual object' (or something along those lines) ?.

 

 

While you remain at a loss to understand the choice made by these Muslim women it might be a good idea to withhold support for a politician who ridicules them.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

it is wrong to say it was freedom of expression to wear the veil for it expresses the desire to bother and provoke the public. thereto next step in the uk veil banning coming after brexit.

 

wbr

roobaa01

You’re not making much sense.

 

Have another go.

[My Thai Life]

Some posters here seem to believe these women have the same freedom of choice that we all take for granted. That they wake up on...

- Monday and think "hmm I'll try the snazzy pink chiffon number today"

- Tuesday "hmm I'll go for the Wahabbi gear".

 

Erm no, it doesn't work like that.

 

I assume you all know that giving up the "religion" is punishable by stoning to death for this sect?

 

The posh word for giving up religion is apostasy. Google "punishment for muslim apostates" or something similar.

[vogie]

A question from a muslim asking if its ok to force his wife to wear a hijab.

 

"The Qur’an has prescribed a specific graded series of three steps, which the husband should take if the wife shows that she is rebelling against Islamic norms of conduct.
His first step should be to speak to her seriously about the implication and likely consequences of what she is doing. If she fails to respond to this sincere admonition, his next step is to suspend marital relations with her for a period of time, If this also fails he is permitted to beat her lightly as a final act of correction. If she then complies then the husband should take no further action against her. [Qur’an 4:34]"

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-my-right-as-a-Muslim-man-to-force-not-physically-my-wife-to-wear-a-hijab-My-desire-is-simply-to-encourage-both-of-us-as-a-couple-to-hold-good-muslim-values

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, roobaa01 said:

it is wrong to say it was freedom of expression to wear the veil for it expresses the desire to bother and provoke the public. thereto next step in the uk veil banning coming after brexit.

 

wbr

roobaa01

"it is wrong to say it was freedom of expression to wear the veil for it expresses the desire to bother and provoke the public." 

 

Agree with this 100% for those women that genuinely choose to wear the nikab or hijab in western countries.

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Legislation only works when the abused is willing to report the abuse, and we already know this rarely happens as the abused woman is too frightened of her husband.

Yep, so how does a face veil ban in all public places rectify this matter - it doesn't.

 

"Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds"

 

How? If the wearer is already oppressed by partner / family, she will not be permitted out in public unveiled. The arguments put up are nonsensical

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I understand that's what you think you are doing.

 

My point is simple - women who "belong" to this sect do not have the right to chose. I hope you will try to understand this.

No. 

 

Its not what I “think” I’m doing. 

 

It is what I’m doing. 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"it is wrong to say it was freedom of expression to wear the veil for it expresses the desire to bother and provoke the public." 

 

Agree with this 100% for those women that genuinely choose to wear the nikab or hijab in western countries.

You agree because you’ve discussed this with the women or because it fits the ideas you already have?

[Opl]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

A question from a muslim asking if its ok to force his wife to wear a hijab.

 

"The Qur’an has prescribed a specific graded series of three steps, which the husband should take if the wife shows that she is rebelling against Islamic norms of conduct.
His first step should be to speak to her seriously about the implication and likely consequences of what she is doing. If she fails to respond to this sincere admonition, his next step is to suspend marital relations with her for a period of time, If this also fails he is permitted to beat her lightly as a final act of correction. If she then complies then the husband should take no further action against her. [Qur’an 4:34]"

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-my-right-as-a-Muslim-man-to-force-not-physically-my-wife-to-wear-a-hijab-My-desire-is-simply-to-encourage-both-of-us-as-a-couple-to-hold-good-muslim-values

 

+ " , women and members of other religions do not have the same rights as men under sharia, and that freedom of expression can be severely limited for religious reasons"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

"the right to choose" unconditional submission to the will and dictates set by the Sharia in a non-muslim country with totally different values  

No. 

 

The right to choose what to wear. 

[wildewillie89]

What on earth has being 'a woman' got to do with anything if you are not an Islamic woman? Islamic women as a minority in the region, choosing to wear something that is meaningful to them, I would think shows strength, not oppression. It would be oppression if they had to remove the dress just to please people who have irrational fears. If you think it is oppression then clearly you have forgot to find the most basic source - the Islamic women who wear the relevant dress.

If a debate was going on amongst mostly women about male orthodox Jews dress, I could never imagine or even bring myself to start a sentence with 'as a man'. If you cannot bother or flat out refuse to listen to the relevant women who live in Western countries and the reasons why they dress then DO NOT play the gender card as your argument. 

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Whilst I agree about Boris "pandering by an opportunistic politician",  I disagree (in particular) with the third paragraph

 

Legislation only works when the abused is willing to report the abuse, and we already know this rarely happens as the abused woman is too frightened of her husband.

 

Multiply this by 'x' when the abused woman also knows that her family and community agree that she is inferior, and must accept their values...

 

IIRC, there have already (quite correctly!) been laws passed to protect school age Moslem girls from the rules insisted upon by their parents (in school)?  But I could be wrong about this.

 

Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds'.

 

I'm at a loss as to why any woman would genuinely want to wear the nikab or hijab - and the only explanation I've heard is that 'it prevents men from looking at me as a sexual object' (or something along those lines) ?.

 

 

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

While you remain at a loss to understand the choice made by these Muslim women it might be a good idea to withhold support for a politician who ridicules them.

You're deliberately missing the first sentence in my post, where I made it quite clear that I don't support Boris in any way, shape or form....

 

Which is presumably why you pretended differently - and ignored the rest of my post....

[Opl]

15 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Yep, so how does a face veil ban in all public places rectify this matter - it doesn't.

 

"Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds"

 

How? If the wearer is already oppressed by partner / family, she will not be permitted out in public unveiled. The arguments put up are nonsensical

 

at least it makes it clear for those who know very little about the history and culture of western societies , what our values are. 

same applies for polygamy, genital mutilation, etc.. 

unless you also defend the right for women to freely choose in those cases.. 

why limit your freedom of choice to garments? 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Opl

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Yep, so how does a face veil ban in all public places rectify this matter - it doesn't.

 

"Banning female face covering in public places can only help those female Moslems that are looking to break out of their 'bonds"

 

How? If the wearer is already oppressed by partner / family, she will not be permitted out in public unveiled. The arguments put up are nonsensical

The husband will do the shopping, walking the children etc.?

 

Possibly, but it seems more likely that he'll be forced into allowing his wife into walking out without a piece of cloth covering her face.

 

More importantly, it will hopefully give the women involved a chance to start communicating with other people.

Edited August 10, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You're deliberately missing the first sentence in my post, where I made it quite clear that I don't support Boris in any way, shape or form....

 

Which is presumably why you pretended differently - and ignored the rest of my post....

I don’t agree with Boris..... but....

[nausea]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t agree with Boris..... but....

I still think he's a buffoon but even a broken clock is right twice a day - out of the mouth of babes (a term regarding an innocent but brutally honest comment a child will make after making an observation or being asked a question - Urban Dictionary).

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

What on earth has being 'a woman' got to do with anything if you are not an Islamic woman? Islamic women as a minority in the region, choosing to wear something that is meaningful to them, I would think shows strength, not oppression. It would be oppression if they had to remove the dress just to please people who have irrational fears. If you think it is oppression then clearly you have forgot to find the most basic source - the Islamic women who wear the relevant dress.

If a debate was going on amongst mostly women about male orthodox Jews dress, I could never imagine or even bring myself to start a sentence with 'as a man'. If you cannot bother or flat out refuse to listen to the relevant women who live in Western countries and the reasons why they dress then DO NOT play the gender card as your argument. 

You're forgetting the main points of western womens' complaints.

 

The nikab and hijab are clear symbols of male misogyny, and western women have fought for generations for equality.

 

So it's hardly suprising when we get very bad-tempered about these physical symbols of misogyny being allowed in public places!

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, nausea said:

I still think he's a buffoon but even a broken clock is right twice a day - out of the mouth of babes (a term regarding an innocent but brutally honest comment a child will make after making an observation or being asked a question - Urban Dictionary).

He’s tossing a bone to illiberal in the hope of building ‘Boris’ Base’.

 

He’a not proving a ban, that would mean expending political capital he doesn’t have.

 

He’s simply rabble rousing in the hope of being able to lead the rabble.

 

[My Thai Life]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Its not what I “think” I’m doing. 

 

It is what I’m doing. 

In that case you haven't understood what I'm saying. I'll try again

 

> These women are wearing Saudi Wahabbi garb.

> The Saudi Wahabbi sect does not allow women to freely chose their dress.

> The punishement for women not conforming to the dress code is beating.

> The punishment for leaving the religion is stoning to death.

 

So all you're doing is colluding with the negative forces that control their lives. Your "liberalism" is supporting the most illiberal misogynistic doctrine on earth.  Nice.

[dick dasterdly]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You're deliberately missing the first sentence in my post, where I made it quite clear that I don't support Boris in any way, shape or form....

 

Which is presumably why you pretended differently - and ignored the rest of my post....

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t agree with Boris..... but....

Good grief!

 

Are you practising for how low you can go??

 

I repeat, as you are obviously 'hard of hearing' - "Which is presumably why you pretended differently - and ignored the rest of my post...."

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're forgetting the main points of western womens' complaints.

 

The nikab and hijab are clear symbols of male misogyny, and western women have fought for generations for equality.

 

So it's hardly suprising when we get very bad-tempered about these physical symbols of misogyny being allowed in public places!

 

 

How does Johnson ridiculing these women improve matters?