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[webfact]

Britain, France, mark centenary of decisive WW1 battle of Amiens

By Jack Hunter

 

Britain's Prince William, the Duke of Cambridge, Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May and former German President Joachim Gauck attend a religious ceremony to mark the 100th anniversary of the World War I (WW1) Battle of Amiens, at the Cathedral in Amiens, France, August 8, 2018. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/Pool

 

AMIENS, France (Reuters) - Britain and France on Wednesday marked 100 years since the decisive battle of Amiens that put Europe on the path to the end of World War One, in a sober ceremony in the northern French city's Gothic cathedral.

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May and serving army officers read letters and poetry from those who fought in the often-forgotten battle that took conflict out of the trenches and ushered in an armistice 100 days later.

 

"Amiens was symbolic of the Entente Cordiale, the co-operation without which victory was impossible," Prince William said.

 

"Today we return to learn more about the experience of those involved during the historic summer of 1918, to honour the fallen of all nations, to commemorate all those who participated in this great endeavour, and to celebrate the bonds of friendship which unite our nations."

 

Descendants of soldiers who fought in the battle took part in the ceremony alongside officials from France, Canada, Australia, Ireland and the United States.

 

May read an extract from the war memoirs of the then-British prime minister, David Lloyd George, which recalled how "the British army itself did not realise the extent and effect of the triumph they had won that day".

 

The decisive battle began at 4.20 a.m. on Aug. 8, 1918, when 900 Allied guns opened fire in a surprise attack on German forces.

 

Allied troops gained eight miles in one day, captured 450 artillery pieces and 12,000 prisoners -- a huge advance in a war until then characterised by miniscule gains and entrenched stalemate.

 

Allied forces suffered 19,000 casualties in the three-day battle, while 27,000 German troops were killed or wounded.

 

At the time, German general Erich Ludendorff described the battle as the "black day of the German army".

 

Around 100,000 Australian, British, Canadian and French troops were committed to the offensive.

 

Among them were British brothers Tom and Robert Slater of the Northumberland Fusiliers. Tom survived, but Robert was killed on the second day of the battle.

 

Attending the ceremony were Tom's grandchildren, Dave Slater and Carolyn Gardner, who had only discovered online 10 years ago that their great-uncle had died at Amiens.

 

"It's almost a hundred years since our great-uncle passed away. And for me, it's important to remember the family. It's important to remember the young men who lost their lives, because it is the ultimate sacrifice," said Gardner, 58.

 

(Editing by Ingrid Melander and Catherine Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-09

[Baerboxer]

And all that sacrifice in the war that would end all wars.

 

20 years later Germany plunged he world into another war.

 

And so we carry on.

[Enoon]

 

The "decisive" battle(s) on the Western Front had been fought several months before, during the German Spring Offensive.

 

It was then that Germany rendered itself incapable of resisting further Allied attacks and so depleted its strength that it had nothing with which to bargain a peace.

 

Spring Offensive - Wikipedia

 

It then became just a matter of time for Germany

 

Amiens signalled the start of the last offensive, it was not the decisive one.

 

Just as Waterloo was not the decisive battle of the Napoleonic era..........it was a "postscript".........the battle that would have been fought in 1814 if Napoleon had not been convinced to abdicate.

 

Russia was the ruin of Napoleon.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Enoon

[Odysseus123]

My grandfather and his brother were there..

 

Charged into battle-5th Brigade,2nd Australian Division.

 

They later stormed Mont St Quentin.

 

"The black day of the German army"-Erich von Ludendorff..

 

Not only was their strength depleted but more to the point they were outside prepared entrenchments for the first time since late 1914/early 1915.

 

"Lest We Forget"

Edited August 9, 2018 by Odysseus123

[leither69]

Where's your allies when you need them!! Short memories in Europe nowadays.

[Odysseus123]

The funeral of Pte Russell Bosisto....

Buried with full military honours almost a hundred years after his death in 1916.

 

 

[Enoon]

16 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

My grandfather and his brother were there..

 

Charged into battle-5th Brigade,2nd Australian Division.

 

They later stormed Mont St Quentin.

 

"The black day of the German army"-Erich von Ludendorff..

 

Not only was their strength depleted but more to the point they were outside prepared entrenchments for the first time since late 1914/early 1915.

 

"Lest We Forget"

 

Be sure to visit the Fovant Badges if in the UK. They probably both gazed upon them:

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Enoon said:

 

Be sure to visit the Fovant Badges if in the UK. They probably both gazed upon them:

 

 

 

Yes-I have seen them..

 

Australian gum trees grew up beside the railway track during and after the war..presumably seeds that (inadvertently) came from supplies from Australia.

 

I have stood as reasonably close as I could to where my grandfather "hopped the bags" at Amiens...

 

As I did with my grand uncle at Pozieres.

 

There is (strangely enough) a photo of him and his Lewis gun section in our "Australia in the Great War"-on the road to Pozieres..

[Justgrazing]

Never forgotten .. 

Memorial to the fallen near my village back home ..

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

The "decisive" battle(s) on the Western Front had been fought several months before, during the German Spring Offensive.

 

It was then that Germany rendered itself incapable of resisting further Allied attacks and so depleted its strength that it had nothing with which to bargain a peace.

 

Spring Offensive - Wikipedia

 

It then became just a matter of time for Germany

 

Amiens signalled the start of the last offensive, it was not the decisive one.

 

Just as Waterloo was not the decisive battle of the Napoleonic era..........it was a "postscript".........the battle that would have been fought in 1814 if Napoleon had not been convinced to abdicate.

 

Russia was the ruin of Napoleon.

 

 

 

 

Not according to the account I have been reading. Up to Amiens, Germany was winning, as the allies were divided, exhausted, demoralised and reduced to sending boys to the front.

 

The actual thing that resulted in Germany losing was the arrival of the Americans. In WW2 the war was won in Russia, but WW1 was won by the Americans. Without them, Germany would have been the ones dictating the terms of the armistice.

 

Interesting that the OP headline doesn't even mention the Americans.

 

While I always thought that Lloyd George was a good guy and Haig an incompetent, the truth was not so cut and dried. L G almost lost the war by refusing to believe the first offensive was coming and not sending enough troops.

 

Whatever the games the leaders were playing the front lines were a horror beyond our understanding today.

Edited August 10, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Lokie]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting that the OP headline doesn't even mention the Americans.

 

 

Nore the Canadians or Germans who were also in attendance and had members of their armed forces present at this memorial

[Odysseus123]

7 minutes ago, Lokie said:

Nore the Canadians or Germans who were also in attendance and had members of their armed forces present at this memorial

They are certainly mentioned a few lines further down as are Aussies,Americans and Irish

[ballpoint]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not according to the account I have been reading. Up to Amiens, Germany was winning, as the allies were divided, exhausted, demoralised and reduced to sending boys to the front.

 

The actual thing that resulted in Germany losing was the arrival of the Americans. In WW2 the war was won in Russia, but WW1 was won by the Americans. Without them, Germany would have been the ones dictating the terms of the armistice.

 

Interesting that the OP headline doesn't even mention the Americans.

 

While I always thought that Lloyd George was a good guy and Haig an incompetent, the truth was not so cut and dried. L G almost lost the war by refusing to believe the first offensive was coming and not sending enough troops.

 

Whatever the games the leaders were playing the front lines were a horror beyond our understanding today.

Gentlemen, you can't fight here.  This is a war thread.

[pegman]

On August 9, 2018 at 8:36 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Not according to the account I have been reading. Up to Amiens, Germany was winning, as the allies were divided, exhausted, demoralised and reduced to sending boys to the front.

 

The actual thing that resulted in Germany losing was the arrival of the Americans. In WW2 the war was won in Russia, but WW1 was won by the Americans. Without them, Germany would have been the ones dictating the terms of the armistice.

 

Interesting that the OP headline doesn't even mention the Americans.

 

The Americans contributed 1 Division to this battle. France 12 Divisions & the Commonwealth 19 Divisions. Maybe you were thinking of how Hollywood adapted it for the screen, 555!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Amiens_(1918)

Edited August 11, 2018 by pegman

[Odysseus123]

On 8/9/2018 at 8:54 PM, Justgrazing said:

Never forgotten .. 

Memorial to the fallen near my village back home ..

My home town....as well...

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:11 PM, pegman said:

The Americans contributed 1 Division to this battle. France 12 Divisions & the Commonwealth 19 Divisions. Maybe you were thinking of how Hollywood adapted it for the screen, 555!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Amiens_(1918)

The Americans were not much involved in that battle, but their arrival turned the war around for the allies. They had over a million fresh keen troops in France at that time.

If Amiens was the turning point, they deserve a larger part in the remembrance. Even with them, the war was expected to continue into 1919. The Germans were just too worn out and demoralised by the entry of America to continue.

 

The book is No Man's Land, by john Tolland. Worth a read if interested. The bits about Russia are very interesting, and the bolsheviks could have been stopped.

[Odysseus123]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Americans were not much involved in that battle, but their arrival turned the war around for the allies. They had over a million fresh keen troops in France at that time.

If Amiens was the turning point, they deserve a larger part in the remembrance. Even with them, the war was expected to continue into 1919. The Germans were just too worn out and demoralised by the entry of America to continue.

 

The book is No Man's Land, by john Tolland. Worth a read if interested. The bits about Russia are very interesting, and the bolsheviks could have been stopped.

I think that the points of view expressed here can be rather seamlessly combined..

 

There is no doubt that Hindenburg/Ludendorff knew that they had one last mighty throw in the West left before the Americans deployed in vast new numbers.

 

Nevertheless their resources were distinctly finite and whilst their 4 major offensives towards the Somme/the Lys,Reims/Soisson and the Marne netted a large amount of territory it was at heavy cost in men and material.Once these offensives were stopped the Germans found themselves in exposed salients out of prepared entrenchments.

Amiens being the first major assault rather then a holding action and the power of the attack never really let up in the next 100 days to victory.

 

"All the world to battle!"As Marshal Ferdinand Foch put it.

 

I believe that the OP is about the commemoration of the Battle of Amiens rather than an argument as to who won the war.

[DeaconJohn]

The battle of Amiens should be remembered and World War I should be commemorated as the hideous and avoidable bloodbath that it was.

Late in life, Frederick the Great, like Asoka raja before him, came to see and understand the reality of armed conflict:

   "A sovereign pushed into war by his fiery ambition should be made to see all of the ghastly consequences for his subjects - the taxes which crush the people of his country, the levies which carry away its youth, the contagious diseases of which so many soldiers die miserably, the murderous sieges, the even more cruel battles, the maimed deprived of their sole means of subsistence, and the orphans from whom the enemy has wrested their very flesh and blood... They sacrifice to their impetuous passions the well being of an infinity of men whom they are duty bound to protect... The sovereigns who regard their people as their slaves risk their lives without pity and see them die without regret, but the princes who consider men as their equals and in certain regards as their masters are economists with their blood and misers with their lives."

He was addressing absolute rulers in the 18th century, but the odious leaders of the belligerent nations that followed should be held accountable for the ghastly consequences of their actions as well.

   

[Odysseus123]

This song speaks for all of us...The Great War....

 

 

[Esso49]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:11 AM, pegman said:

The Americans contributed 1 Division to this battle. France 12 Divisions & the Commonwealth 19 Divisions. Maybe you were thinking of how Hollywood adapted it for the screen, 555!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Amiens_(1918)

Interesting that the mention of Americans joining the war came late on in this thread,  much the same as when Americans usually contribute,  certainly during the World Wars.