UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Jip99]

33 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Another classic case of emotional perception. I was a self employed IT consultant and at the time picked up some work with a fairly large group as a Y2K advisor. I am not disputing the media hype, its the way of the world, but the main reason Y2K was perceived as a non event was preparation. I knew of several companies that came to grief because they shrugged it off.

 

A lot to be said for the old mantra " Fail to prepare and you prepare to fail." and its time this government took heed.

 

 

To be fair Sandy, I doubt that the planes were ever going to fall out of the sky at Midnight.

 

 

Agree with the principle of planning and you would have thought that the EU would have had a blueprint for a member country leaving.

[kwilco]

11 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I believe the cheese tariff as well any other tariffs can be set to 0% by the UK government once you leave the Union.

 

The financial questions are:

 

1) How does UK make money after the Brexit

 

2) How does UK government collect taxes to pay for common services?

 

These are the WTO tariffs imposed on Dairy products, a large proportion of which we currently get duty-free from the EU.

 

 

 

You also overlook that any delay on shipping goods from EU will result in increased transport costs.

I think people have little concept of what an expensive bottleneck Dover will become despite the concrete evidence of this

Edited August 24, 2018 by kwilco

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

It doesn't really matter what you or I think about MP's or UK parliamentary democracy, that is the way it is. Until there is a change in the constitution external views can only try and influence decisions, not make them.

In the majority of votes the whip is exercised so the interests of MP's become irrelevant, becomes a numbers game.

 

The whip.

 

An interesting and imaginative thought or two there.

 

Perhaps one of these thought they may grow to like it too much.

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Agree with the principle of planning and you would have thought that the EU would have had a blueprint for a member country leaving.

They have. It’s called Article 50. You trigger Article 50 and you’re out. Very easy. 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

To be fair Sandy, I doubt that the planes were ever going to fall out of the sky at Midnight.

 

 

Agree with the principle of planning and you would have thought that the EU would have had a blueprint for a member country leaving.

The most likely reason is nobody thought any nation would be so utterly stupid as to wifuly inflict such economic damage on itself.

 

Of course the UK could have tabled such planning before signing Article 50, but that would have required a bit of forethought.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

These are the WTO tariffs imposed on Dairy products, a large proportion of which we currently get duty-free from the EU.

 

 

But can't each country waive any import tariffs as they wish? Most often those tariffs are to protect local production so that the countries can keep self sufficient in case of breakdown of global economy.

 

It would not be smart, but possible?

 

[rixalex]

I have to admit I'm amazed at the obduracy of most Brexiteers in the face of overwhelming reason and evidence.
It takes a rare breed of obstinacy to stick to those guns

There IS no evidence. You can't prove a future event until it has happened. That's the thing about the future.

Even if it was known what the final deal was going to be it would be tough to predict. Right now we don't even know that.

All there is is hypothesizing and speculation; and when it's hyperbolic hypothesizing and speculation that happens to come from sources with vested interests of their own, well, a desperate remainer might be naive enough to gobble it up as gospel like a hungry chicken, but don't necessarily expect everyone else to.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They have. It’s called Article 50. You trigger Article 50 and you’re out. Very easy. 

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

[kwilco]

13 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

You are confusing obstinacy with DETERMINATION.

 

 

A determination to leave the EU, which is what we (and the majority) voted for.

 

 

 

Now..... move on.

QED!

[kwilco]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

WHAT???

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

The EU isn’t making anything difficult. What could be easier to leave the club than just ending the membership (article 50)?

Edited August 24, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

There IS no evidence. You can't prove a future event until it has happened. That's the thing about the future.

Even if it was known what the final deal was going to be it would be tough to predict. Right now we don't even know that.

All there is is hypothesizing and speculation; and when it's hyperbolic hypothesizing and speculation that happens to come from sources with vested interests of their own, well, a desperate remainer might be naive enough to gobble it up as gospel like a hungry chicken, but don't necessarily expect everyone else to.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

every time you hear this ridiculous argument - its like saying you don't need to look before you cross the road because a car hasn't hit you yet.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

 

 

I think they just want to confirm the reasons why we wanted to leave in the first place.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

There IS no evidence. You can't prove a future event until it has happened. That's the thing about the future.

Even if it was known what the final deal was going to be it would be tough to predict. Right now we don't even know that.

All there is is hypothesizing and speculation; and when it's hyperbolic hypothesizing and speculation that happens to come from sources with vested interests of their own, well, a desperate remainer might be naive enough to gobble it up as gospel like a hungry chicken, but don't necessarily expect everyone else to.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So erm.... by that logic you can’t promise a Brexit Dividend or an extra £350,000,000 for the NHS.

[Guest]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

I'm not sure I understand how EU is making Brexit so difficult. It isn't.

 

UK can leave and lose it's membership privileges. I guess this is what is going to happen anyway.

 

After that UK less of a member than let's say Bulgaria. Once you are out, you are out.

 

Now EU wishes to hear whether UK is willing to negotiate a deal between these two entities or not. 

 

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

But can't each country waive any import tariffs as they wish? Most often those tariffs are to protect local production so that the countries can keep self sufficient in case of breakdown of global economy.

 

It would not be smart, but possible?

 

 

Much of that cheese is already produced in the UK so import tariffs shouldn't apply.

 

 

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

The difficulty is the UK trying to have a cake and eat it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

I think they just want to confirm the reasons why we wanted to leave in the first place.

Don't mix what EU is doing and what we mere EU members are talking here on Thailand forum ?

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The EU isn’t making anything difficult. What could be easier to leave the club than resigning? 

the UK made binding agreements and has to honour them or disentangle them (v.700 trade deals)....the EU has to protect their interests which, as Brexiteers insist, doesn't include the UK.

EU didn't ask for this.

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

You can't prove a future event until it has happened. That's the thing about the future.

Following that childish thinking we could all jump from the Lebua without having to worry too much. 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Much of that cheese is already produced in the UK so import

 

 

And all of the UK made cheese will lose its EU ‘origin’ trade protections.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

So why is the EU making it so difficult?

They are not making it difficult - we are. We want to be out, but retain many of the benefits of membership, but not take on many of the responsibilities. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Much of that cheese is already produced in the UK so import tariffs shouldn't apply.

 

That's all good then. Naturally if you wish to export the UK produced cheese to other countries, you'll be hit with 44% tariffs. 

 

 

[tebee]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Much of that cheese is already produced in the UK so import tariffs shouldn't apply.

 

 

Most Cheddar is now made in Ireland !

[tebee]

https://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009

[kwilco]

here are  few things that "haven't happened yet" - apart from the fact they either WIL or HAVE......

 

Good luck crossing the road! (tip - don't follow the chicken!)

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Apart from the unnecessary dig at "emotional perception", I don't disagree with you. And the government is taking heed, as we have seen in the news in the last day or two. The obvious reason that the UK gov't can't be fully prepared is that we don't know which "deal" to prepare for.

 

But there is a huge amount of scare-mongering in the MSM, some sheer nonsense like the 44% tariff on cheese, and very little balanced coverage at all.

 

I won't bother going into what I was doing in the Y2K, but we both know that a lot of the fear was unfounded. I believe the same is true today, whether you think it's "emotional perception" or not. I'm happy to compare notes after the event if you like. Have a good day.

I agree with most of this, but the important point is that the uk govt. should have started preparing for 'no deal' as soon as it became obvious that the eu had no intention of negotiating!  

 

But they didn't, and are only now making (pretending to make?) any preparations.  I mention 'possibly only pretending to make preparations' as they appear to have done nothing - other than 'warn' businesses to prepare for the possibility of 'no deal'?

[kwilco]

16 minutes ago, tebee said:

Most Cheddar is now made in Ireland !

The Cheddar cheese name is used internationally; its name does not have a PDO, but the use of the name "West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" does. 

 

Of the top 6 exporters of cheese, 5 are in EU with USA at number 5.

Britin is a gross importer of all dairy goods.

 

anyone who thinks this is going to change - least of all overnight is a fool.

[vogie]

40 minutes ago, kwilco said:

These are the WTO tariffs imposed on Dairy products, a large proportion of which we currently get duty-free from the EU.

 

 

 

You also overlook that any delay on shipping goods from EU will result in increased transport costs.

I think people have little concept of what an expensive bottleneck Dover will become despite the concrete evidence of this

Are you suggesting that there will be increased transport costs and bottlenecks at Dover with lorries loaded with Wensleydale, double Gloucester and Lancashire cheese. ???

[billd766]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And all of the UK made cheese will lose its EU ‘origin’ trade protections.

 

And any UK protected cheese made in the EU will lose its trade protections.