UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, a number of us (I suspect) decided not to vote as we weren't sure for various reasons.

 

i.e. the eu has many faults and no intention to reform, but at least they've made a minimal effort to protect workers rights - but we feared that any uk govt. wouldn't even attempt to care for those at the 'bottom'.  As per previous experience....

 

*I've come to the belated conclusion that this is to protect the lowest paid eu 'foreigners' in wealthy countries....

Nope. The minimum wage (derisory though it is) is to protect against workers being undercut [by illegal immigrants for example]

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't think it will make much difference Keir Starmer said Labour will vote it down.

It's likely- labour's tests are based on the high standards the Leave campaign set, which we know are impossible.  However, Labour's preferred deal is not a million miles away from May's.  The wavering Labour MP's will no doubt be emboldened by the claim that most of their supporters in the industrial areas appear to have swung to Remain.  So yes, probably but not definitely.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

""Are you in favour of the death penalty” would probably have a similar result if remoaners were questioned"

 

Seems more than likely - but remainers will (no doubt) studiously ignore this point!

I suspect pro Brexit correlates very closely with pro hanging.

[nontabury]

41 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

And the millions who didn't vote first time around?  They should just roll over, should they?  And the leavers who are mightily unhappy because they are being betrayed?  Back to the drawing board Vogie  ????

Those who did not vote,could quite easily have voted for Brexit. We just do NOT know.

And yes the leavers are unhappy, with a remainer P.M doing all she can to NOT implement the wishes of the electorate. Far better to give the Bureaucrats in Brussels the two fingers.

[nontabury]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's likely- labour's tests are based on the high standards the Leave campaign set, which we know are impossible.  However, Labour's preferred deal is not a million miles away from May's.  The wavering Labour MP's will no doubt be emboldened by the claim that most of their supporters in the industrial areas appear to have swung to Remain.  

Appear to who. Certainly not to those very same Labour supporters.

 

 

[dunroaming]

25 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I just wonder why I keep noticing a very high % of E.U. Citizens on these threads, who seem to think we should remain in this so called Union.

Could it possible be down to our willingness to make charitable contributions to this organisation?

 

 

No they just have an opinion and can see the stupidity being shown over Brexit and those who are charged with instrumenting it.  Their view is every bit as valid as yours or mine.

[Patriot1066]

57 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thank you

 

That was an excellent debate and addresses exactly the issues we should be discussing. These gents would be welcome in my carriage on the way to Brussels! Both would make excellent prime ministers!

 

I urge all Brexiters here to listen to the discussion and think about it.

Good I trust Hitchens more than Adonis who has zero credibillity!

[mogandave]

Nope. The minimum wage (derisory though it is) is to protect against workers being undercut [by illegal immigrants for example]

 

If people are working illegally, and people hire them illegally, why would they bother paying minimum?

 

A lot of private and (I assume) public sector unions have triggers linked to the minimum wage, that’s where the money comes from to promote the idiocy.

 

Lefty feels real good about himself when he gets a raise for the working poor, that he often gets a much bigger raise for himself at the same time is just a coincidence. Remember, it’s the thought that counts...

 

Let’s don’t let the market dictate wages, otherwise people would begin to realize importing millions of no and low skilled people puts downward pressure on wages.

 

Again, in the ‘70s, a hard working roofer could earn 5-10 times the minimum wage in SoCal.

 

Today a roofer in SoCal makes 1.5-2 time minimum wage.

 

One hour of minimum wage bought 4 gallons of gas (petrol?) then, today one hour buys 2-3 gallons.

 

Two hours of minimum wages bought a carton of cigarettes. Six hours for a carton today...

 

Actually, Budweiser is about the same in terms of hours...oh yeah, lefty likes beer, cars and smokes not so much....

 

 

 

[mogandave]

No they just have an opinion and can see the stupidity being shown over Brexit and those who are charged with instrumenting it.  Their view is every bit as valid as yours or mine.

How is is someones that knows dick-all about the UK or the EU (myself for example) has a view that is every bit as valid as guys that have spent their lives there?

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I just wonder why I keep noticing a very high % of E.U. Citizens on these threads, who seem to think we should remain in this so called Union.

Could it possible be down to our willingness to make charitable contributions to this organisation?

So you wonder why there are so many of us Europeans who participate in a discussion where one part of our union is going to resign? 

 

Remember that when Scotland or Northern Ireland are exiting the UK. Remember what you said about foreigners talking about Scotland's or NI's internal matters. 

 

Anyway this discussion is getting rather boring. If UK is going to stay with the customs union with our EU, that's fine. If UK is going for a deep, cold dive and choses a hard brexit without any deal and acclimatisation period to help it, that's fine too.

 

Like I said earlier about the anti-vaccine folks. There is only so much education one can give for the stubborn people. At some point, it's best to leave them alone and find out what their policies bring to them.. while being separated from the rest of us.

[nauseus]

40 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nope. The minimum wage (derisory though it is) is to protect against workers being undercut [by illegal immigrants for example]

There is no EU standard minimum. That's why the UK's minimum (or even less for undeclared work) is so popular with many of our EU guests. Wages are depressed and big business loves it.

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I suspect pro Brexit correlates very closely with pro hanging.

Well you would, wouldn't you?

[Patriot1066]

24 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

If people are working illegally, and people hire them illegally, why would they bother paying minimum?

 

A lot of private and (I assume) public sector unions have triggers linked to the minimum wage, that’s where the money comes from to promote the idiocy.

 

Lefty feels real good about himself when he gets a raise for the working poor, that he often gets a much bigger raise for himself at the same time is just a coincidence. Remember, it’s the thought that counts...

 

Let’s don’t let the market dictate wages, otherwise people would begin to realize importing millions of no and low skilled people puts downward pressure on wages.

 

Again, in the ‘70s, a hard working roofer could earn 5-10 times the minimum wage in SoCal.

 

Today a roofer in SoCal makes 1.5-2 time minimum wage.

 

One hour of minimum wage bought 4 gallons of gas (petrol?) then, today one hour buys 2-3 gallons.

 

Two hours of minimum wages bought a carton of cigarettes. Six hours for a carton today...

 

Actually, Budweiser is about the same in terms of hours...oh yeah, lefty likes beer, cars and smokes not so much....

 

 

 

The Tories you all hate have constantly put the minimum wage up above inflation each year!

 

There is a EU flaw in the minimum wage widely abused so:

 

Romanian company wins contract to replace glass in large building. They arrive with staff who will be paid effectively. Romanian wage rates as are excluddd under the minimum wage directive. Bit like if you worked in the UK but moved around you are still employed in the UK.

 

This scam is wildly used on big construction sites in London.

[Patriot1066]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well you would, wouldn't you?

Why because leavers have a better judgement?

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

It's likely- labour's tests are based on the high standards the Leave campaign set, which we know are impossible.  However, Labour's preferred deal is not a million miles away from May's.  The wavering Labour MP's will no doubt be emboldened by the claim that most of their supporters in the industrial areas appear to have swung to Remain.  So yes, probably but not definitely.

I know no one who has turned from leave to remain ! Where do gheee remainers find the people for their surveys? A remain match?

[Orac]

The Tories you all hate have constantly put the minimum wage up above inflation each year!
 
There is a EU flaw in the minimum wage widely abused so:
 
Romanian company wins contract to replace glass in large building. They arrive with staff who will be paid effectively. Romanian wage rates as are excluddd under the minimum wage directive. Bit like if you worked in the UK but moved around you are still employed in the UK.
 
This scam is wildly used on big construction sites in London.

If they are doing the work in the UK, even if employed by an overseas company, they are legally entitled to UK minimum wage.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Patriot1066]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There is no EU standard minimum. That's why the UK's minimum (or even less for undeclared work) is so popular with many of our EU guests. Wages are depressed and big business loves it.

Very true as EU citizens have gone back wages have gone up its about supply and demand. For remainers supply is the available people, ok you got that? Demand is the number of people required, have you understood that?

 

So my remainers friends; More people imported supply increased demand is therefore lowered so wages fall.

[Patriot1066]

3 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

If they are doing the work in the UK, even if employed by an overseas company, they are legally entitled to UK minimum wage.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Nope do your homework ! 

 

This is is true I see lots of it.

[mogandave]

The Tories you all hate have constantly put the minimum wage up above inflation each year!
 
There is a EU flaw in the minimum wage widely abused so:
 
Romanian company wins contract to replace glass in large building. They arrive with staff who will be paid effectively. Romanian wage rates as are excluddd under the minimum wage directive. Bit like if you worked in the UK but moved around you are still employed in the UK.
 
This scam is wildly used on big construction sites in London.

I don’t hate the Tories, I hate the left.

[mogandave]

Nope do your homework ! 

 

This is is true I see lots of it.

 

Sorry, wrong post

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I don’t hate the Tories, I hate the left.

 

Ok big apology my mistake. 

 

I hate them as well.

 

The pay issue is true as temp workers in the UK employed in their own country. I will try to find the info!

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I don’t hate the Tories, I hate the left.

 

Here it is 

 

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/eu-rules-posted-workers

 

we has guys near us paid Romanian mom wage we’re therd for nearly an hour.

 

Same goes for a lot of long distance foreign lorry drivers who camp out in UK industrial estates as get virtually no expenses.

[tebee]

We are in a race to the bottom in more ways than one....

 

 

[Patriot1066]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

We are in a race to the bottom in more ways than one....

 

 

Yes right well done I think?

 

Did you notice who issued it!

 

Just in case you missed it, the trusted EU, they can’t even sign off and audit their own budgets and spending.

 

Very hard to trust their ecconomic modelling ????????????????????????

 

Hilarious!!

[mommysboy]

Labour won't be accepting a 'whoops a daisy' no deal either.  Although, I think the general electorate will be a little less demanding it won't wear with them either. ie, no deal = no Brexit.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-no-deal-brexit-labour-conservative-keir-starmer-a8622606.html

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Labour won't be accepting a 'whoops a daisy' no deal either.  Although, I think the general electorate will be a little less demanding it won't wear with them either. ie, no deal = no Brexit.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-no-deal-brexit-labour-conservative-keir-starmer-a8622606.html

From the not very independent Independent !

 

Hows their millionaires vote coming on?

[mogandave]

We are in a race to the bottom in more ways than one....
 
 

Love the comments...

[billd766]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The boy did good! 

 

I am surprised you vote the way you do though.  Just from a basic viewpoint they support the poor and disadvantaged- NHS for instance.  And even now, it would appear that it would be easier for you to return to UK under Labour.  JC also appears to support the ending of the frozen pension.

Why are you surprised?

 

You have never met me and have little idea of the way I think or vote.

 

As for returning to the UK under labour, you must be joking.

 

As for JC supporting the ending of the frozen pension. When you are in opposition you can say what you like, but when you are in power it is a completely different kettle of sausages.

 

At the last GE I voted Tory to keep the Lib Dems out of the seat and Labour + UKIP never had a chance, and the election before that I voted UKIP.

[mommysboy]

Brexit secretary Dominic Raab says he ‘hadn’t quite understood’ importance of EU trade to UK economy:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-dominic-raab-trade-eu-france-calais-dover-economy-finance-deal-a8624036.html

 

Nuff said!

[billd766]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Well spotted Bill, they demolished some prefabs and built some new houses so we effectively moved across the road. My father had the workmen move the Anderson shelter to the new house and it is still there to this day.

There was also many of us in the same boat but there was unspoken segregation, not that anyone knew what the word meant in those days, the kids from 'snob hill' did not mix with the kids from the huts.

As you know I also went in the RAF, my father effectively kicked me out when I left school as there were 3 of us in one bedroom. I did my interview at Cardington when I was 15 but they wouldn't let me join straight away and was deferred to Jan 64, I worked in the woods cutting firewood for the 6 months prior. Once in the service life became a whole lot better, but never financially, couple of messy divorces saw to that. Getting ripped off by a woman is not unique to Thailand, in fact probably better of now in general terms than I have ever been.

Going back as a couple is not an option as my wife wouldn't want it, a couple of weeks is more than enough for her, so every chance I will end up scattered across the garden, probably just as well as the way things are going it is unlikely I could afford a funeral in the UK.

I will end up in the spirit house in the front garden. I refuse to have my ashes dumped in the river as I can't swim.

 

My wife suggested leaving my ashes at the airport and I told that if she does it has to be behind either KFC or McDonald's in case I get hungry in the night. 

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Why are you surprised?

 

You have never met me and have little idea of the way I think or vote.

 

As for returning to the UK under labour, you must be joking.

 

As for JC supporting the ending of the frozen pension. When you are in opposition you can say what you like, but when you are in power it is a completely different kettle of sausages.

 

At the last GE I voted Tory to keep the Lib Dems out of the seat and Labour + UKIP never had a chance, and the election before that I voted UKIP.

I voted Tory party member. But considered UKIP if I didn’t have such a good MP (Orford)

 

If the remainers are scared of Brexit bless them and all that.

 

Then they should be seriously terrified of Corbyn like hiding under the bed terrified.

 

money is moving out not through Brexit but the spectre of Corbyn, Macfonald government ( Sorry comrade committee)