UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

The Brexit saga will go on for years

 

The deal agreed between the United Kingdom and the European Union has detonated the biggest political dispute in British politics since Neville Chamberlain came back from Munich in 1938 waving a leaf of paper and proclaiming he had won “Peace in our time”, writes Denis MacShane.

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/opinion/mon-the-brexit-saga-will-go-on-for-years/

Would this be the same Denis MacShane, who while the Labour MP for Rotherham, knew all about the child abuse of young vulnerable girls by certain members of the localMuslim community. Yet kept very quite about it, in fact he was part of the establishment that tried to cover up the full extent of this scandal. Later of course he went on to reside in Leeds prison, having been found guilty of fiddling his expenses.

 Allthough I do agree with the comparison of Chamberlain and May.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

47 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Anyway I think we all agree NO deal is disaster, the Deal is worse than what we already have ergo we remain. Job done let's get back to normal discourse such as where to get HP sauce in Pattaya and the like and how much does a Kwai cost (around 13.5k baht I think). See that wasn't difficult should have listened to Grouse all along. He deserves a 50 year old Macallan single malt for his sterling efforts to keep sterling ......errmmmm sterling and sound as a pound. 

he, grouse, is drinking blended

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

he is drinking blended

 

with the rise in sterling we will be able to put the wee boat out a bit Johnny Walker Blue Label then ....

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

It was mostly the USA that built up Europe after WW2.

And since that time, again it’s been the USA who have financed the defence of Europe. 

Compared to Finland who at one time fought with NAZI Germany against the Allies. And who have since the end of WW2 relied on NATO to defend them, without Finland paying towards the costs. Free riders.

I find this a very very unfair comment and it certainly shows you know close to zilch re Finland's modern history.

 

[Chelseafan]

3 hours ago, bomber said:

i never voted as at the time i could see points from both sides,what hit me within days/weeks of the vote is just what an absolute disaster the whole thing was.

Another 2% of people like yourself could of swung it the other way....just saying.

 

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Most probably the lack of man and women power plus a doubling up on material resources and the cost of starting and Army of xxx,xxx people and all the infrastructure that goes with it.

 

NATO HQ is in Brussels and to run 2 organisations with much the same targets and ideas will be expensive, There are only 5 countries contributing 2% of GDP into NATO now and to start a new EU military from scratch means that the 27 EU countries will have to stump up even more of their GDP.

 

Just assuming the plan gets off the ground, what will the new Army do all day that isn't already being done by NATO.

 

Putin must be laughing his socks off.

I doubt this will ever get off the ground. As I see it, it's Merkels way of sticking two fingers up at Trump who has criticized some countries (including hers) of not putting enough into NATO. Merkel is making veiled threats of pulling out of NATO and creating an European army.

 

 

[bomber]

4 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Another 2% of people like yourself could of swung it the other way....just saying.

 

correct,another vote and iam would quite sure it would be 58-63% remain if not higher

[Chelseafan]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Anyway I think we all agree NO deal is disaster, the Deal is worse than what we already have ergo we remain. Job done let's get back to normal discourse such as where to get HP sauce in Pattaya and the like and how much does a Kwai cost (around 13.5k baht I think). See that wasn't difficult should have listened to Grouse all along. He deserves a 50 year old Macallan single malt for his sterling efforts to keep sterling ......errmmmm sterling and sound as a pound. 

I'm a remainer but I don't see a hard no-deal to be as bad as everyone makes out. Sure we may have some pain for the short-term but people more cleverer than myself will find a way to muddle through and just think of the endless opportunities of being able to trade with who we like.

 

[Chelseafan]

8 minutes ago, bomber said:

correct,another vote and iam would quite sure it would be 58-63% remain if not higher

Actually I think it would be the same result. Outside London there is a lot more dissatisfaction with Europe than there has ever been, especially with the way that TM has (appeared) to be treated by Brussels. You may get more young left wing uni-grads voting but a lot will say they will vote but won't. I bet my bottom dollar those OAPS will be out in force even more so.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Chelseafan

[JAG]

30 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I find this a very very unfair comment and it certainly shows you know close to zilch re Finland's modern history.

 

Quite accurate though...

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

Quite accurate though...

no, that comment is not accurate at all

 

the free rider comment is just crap

 

[JAG]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

no, that comment is not accurate at all

 

the free rider comment is just crap

 

It is a fact that Finland fought as allies with the Germans against the Soviet Union.

 

It is a fact that Finland played no part in the defence of Europe throughout the period which the Soviet Union was an active threat to Europe.

 

That makes it an accurate comment, even if you don't like it.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

no, that comment is not accurate at all

 

the free rider comment is just crap

 

If you have seen some snide comments from olly, it is to be expected.

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

It is a fact that Finland fought as allies with the Germans against the Soviet Union.

 

It is a fact that Finland played no part in the defence of Europe throughout the period which the Soviet Union was an active threat to Europe.

 

That makes it an accurate comment, even if you don't like it.

your sentence 1 - ok

your sentence 2 - so so

 

no it does not, the free rider comment is totally off and

has no base in reality politics

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you have seen some snide comments from olly, it is to be expected.

what is to be expected?

 

[vogie]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

what is to be expected?

 

If you fire flak at somebody, expect some return fire.

[whatsupdoc]

If you have seen some snide comments from olly, it is to be expected.

And you said in an earlier post about yourself that you are not malicious??


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[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you fire flak at somebody, expect some return fire.

sorry - dont understand this at all

has what to do with oilinki?

 

am just lost

will have another Belhaven

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, whatsupdoc said:

And you said in an earlier post about yourself that you are not malicious??


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Where have I been malicitious, and if you are here to defend olly you obviously don't see what the rest of us see, could that be bias, I don't know.

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

what is to be expected?

 

Come now, you can hardly fail to be aware that your fellow (and much more vociferous) Finnish commentator on this thread makes a point of larding his posts with often inaccurate and rather offensive comments about the UK, and those of us who happen to believe it will be well out of the EU 

[AlexRich]

43 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I'm a remainer but I don't see a hard no-deal to be as bad as everyone makes out. Sure we may have some pain for the short-term but people more cleverer than myself will find a way to muddle through and just think of the endless opportunities of being able to trade with who we like.

 

 

Can you explain to me which countries in the world the UK is stopped from doing business with by the EU? The answer is none. Germany and Italy do a great deal of business in China because they produce goods that China wants. Being in the EU is not an impediment. We have a deal currently with 27 EU countries together with another 65 countries that the EU negotiated, including Japan just recently. Leaving on no deal means that the give all those deals up and start from scratch. I don’t think that the UK will starve if there is a no deal Brexit but it will do great damage to the economy. The terms that we currently have with the WTO will change because we are a smaller country, and any deals we make will come with costs. The Northern Irish farmers union last week said a deal with the US would destroy their industry. It’s not like the day after the referendum, not that bad. We have never left the EU, that’s why. 

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, JAG said:

Come now, you can hardly fail to be aware that your fellow (and much more vociferous) Finnish commentator on this thread makes a point of larding his posts with often inaccurate and rather offensive comments about the UK, and those of us who happen to believe it will be well out of the EU 

sorry, not trying to be difficult

am just totally lost - dont understand what you are on about at all

 

fellow Finnish commentator ? what is that ?

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

How, might I ask, has the EU?

Do you really not understand that?

 

There has been no requirement for "protection". The EU has (or at least had) more or less got rid of nationalist tendencies. There has been peace as a direct result of pooling sovereignty and working closely with one another. One could write a book. Amazed that you have not understood that with all your historical knowledge

 

There are many articles like this...

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2016/05/how-valid-claim-eu-has-delivered-peace-europe

 

or this

 

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/2012/eu/facts/

 

and this..

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Europaea

Edited November 19, 2018 by Grouse
Education

[damascase]

57 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I'm a remainer but I don't see a hard no-deal to be as bad as everyone makes out. Sure we may have some pain for the short-term but people more cleverer than myself will find a way to muddle through and just think of the endless opportunities of being able to trade with who we like.

 

Can you name a country that at present you cannot trade with, but after Brexit you will/can?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Anyway I think we all agree NO deal is disaster, the Deal is worse than what we already have ergo we remain. Job done let's get back to normal discourse such as where to get HP sauce in Pattaya and the like and how much does a Kwai cost (around 13.5k baht I think). See that wasn't difficult should have listened to Grouse all along. He deserves a 50 year old Macallan single malt for his sterling efforts to keep sterling ......errmmmm sterling and sound as a pound. 

Id say we definitely don't all agree 'No deal is a disaster', it might not be optimum, but I'd say it's a damn sight better than the crap presented to the cabinet on Friday. When negotiating with stooges like Robbins and May at the helm and with an organisation that is unwilling to give an inch, even on issues that are supposedly problematic for both sides - such as the border between NI/RoI, what can we expect? 

You could say it''s all good banter of course, and for someone such as yourself, or I, - sat 1000s of miles away in LOS to breezily summarise with as inane, yet autocratic a statement as -'current (draft, I might add) deal is bonkers so ergo we'll remain' would be amusing - if it wasn't the thought process of far too many people in the UK at the moment, and still that nightmarish possibility, lurking in the background of all this. 

 

I guess you'd say we should pretend the 17.5m majority who voted oppositely don't exist, what an embarrassment eh!, we should simply ride rough-shod over the exercising of their democratic right, their a bunch of plebs anyhow, so screw it, right? Maybe we should dismantle parliament while we're at it, to stop anything like this from ever happening again? 

Edited November 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[adammike]

7 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Id say we definitely don't all agree 'No deal is a disaster', it might not be optimum, but I'd say it's a damn sight better than the crap presented to the cabinet on Friday. When negotiating with stooges like Robbins and May at the helm and with an organisation that is unwilling to give an inch, even on issues that are supposedly problematic for both sides - such as the border between NI/RoI, what can we expect? 

You could say it''s all good banter of course, and for someone such as yourself, or I, - sat 1000s of miles away in LOS to breezily summarise with as inane, yet autocratic a statement as -'current (draft, I might add) deal is bonkers so ergo we'll remain' would be amusing - if it wasn't the thought process of far too many people in the UK at the moment, and still that nightmarish possibility, lurking in the background of all this. 

 

I guess you'd say we should pretend the 17.5m majority who voted oppositely don't exist, what an embarrassment eh!, we should simply ride rough-shod over the exercising of their democratic right, their a bunch of plebs anyhow, so screw it, right? Maybe we should dismantle parliament while we're at it, to stop anything like this from ever happening again? 

OH you are losing it at a canter,loving it.

[Chelseafan]

Can you name a country that at present you cannot trade with, but after Brexit you will/can?

Pork and chicken from Australia even when it's hormone free

I cannot predict the future

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[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

28 minutes ago, adammike said:

OH you are losing it at a canter,loving it.

I'm losing hope, yes. Not that I ever had much for the majority of Remoaners on here, yourself included of course, but with a little luck mine and my fellow Brexiteers' hopes for a proper outcome might be reinvigorated in coming weeks, we shall see. In the meantime, glad I'm entertaining you if nothing else. ????

 

Obviously I gave up on changing anyone's mind a loooong time ago.

Edited November 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Chelseafan]

Pork and chicken from Australia even when it's hormone free

I cannot predict the future

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Further its not about what countries we deal with but what trade we can negotiate

I buy prawns from Thailand and due to EU tariffs have to pay 20% duty. A free trade agreement with Thailand could make this 0%


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[Grouse]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

'A nice perspective from David Davis.'

 

An oxymoron if ever there was!

Reasonable, if misguided, cove.

 

His comments about the City were a bit off. It's a huge laundry machine and further relaxation of the regs would be unwise