57 minutes ago, gmmarvin said:

It is not uncommon to lose your security when leaving government service.  I lost mine on government retirement.  I don't know why these former government officials still have there's.  Once you go into the private sector there is no need for it.  This is a big deal about nothing.  Get a life and move on.

Did you know classified information that may help the current government with a terrorist attack? Were you personally privy to the ins and outs of a global intelligence community? Could you have advised Presidents and Congress on international criminals? In other words were you the ex-Head of the CIA?

No? Really. Well that's obviously the exact same comparison.

He had security clearance so that he could advice on matters that he personally knew about. It didn't mean he still got given top secrets and the likes. How difficult is this to understand? But please, do go on with your false equivalency.  

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

 

1 hour ago, gmmarvin said:

Good point.  Still no big deal on revoking upper echelon security clearances.  It's just another way to rag on Trump.

In the case of the former CIA chief's security clearance, he has only accessed information from his files and notes when he has been called to testify before congressional committees.

 

It should also be noted that ALL on the president's hit list are those who were involved in the Russia investigation.   Some had nothing to do with Trump, but just the Russian attacks on the election process.   

 

This is pretty serious.   

2 hours ago, gmmarvin said:

It is not uncommon to lose your security when leaving government service.  I lost mine on government retirement. 

 

Former national security officials have hundreds of combined years of experience with the intelligence community and world stage.  Brennan was in the CIA for decades.  He has a lot of knowledge about Afghanistan and Pakistan.  He had the information needed to let Obama capture and kill Bin Laden. 

 

He might be able to shed light on fresh intel that otherwise might mean anything to the current officials.  If the current CIA director wants to have a discussion with the former about something, he's allowed to have that discussions when security clearances are still in place.  With this bone headed move, the current CIA chief has just lost a valuable asset and Trump is rightfully being criticized by security officials from both parties.

 

Trump has screwed his own people just so he can try to save face and punish (or as you put it, "rag on") his critics.

 

What other purpose could have been attached, since we saw Sanders read the president's "enemies list" yesterday?  "You other former officials better keep your mouths shut or else" is the clear message being sent.  Her reason for the action was in the interest of national security.  Of course we now know that he did it because of the Russia investigation.

 

 

This just in: Now Admiral McRraven (who oversaw the Bin Laden raid) said "take my security clearance too.  It would be an honor to be on the list with Brennan" (paraphrasing).

 

Good going Trump.  Alienate yourself from as many intelligence officials as you can, and make your administration the least intelligent ever.

 

Quote

I don't know why these former government officials still have there's. [sic]

 

Now you know.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by attrayant

Not that it matters to the man-child cultists:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/navy-seal-william-mcraven-trump-security-clearance-2018-8

 

"'You have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children': Navy SEAL who oversaw the Osama bin Laden raid rebukes Trump in stunning opinion column"

 

 

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by Becker

41 minutes ago, Becker said:

Not that it matters to the man-child cultists:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/navy-seal-william-mcraven-trump-security-clearance-2018-8

 

"'You have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children': Navy SEAL who oversaw the Osama bin Laden raid rebukes Trump in stunning opinion column"

 

 

 

He is certainly entitled to his opinion, but I'll take the opinion of the actual SEAL's on the ground rather than activist retiree pundits. 

 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Becker said:

Not that it matters to the man-child cultists:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/navy-seal-william-mcraven-trump-security-clearance-2018-8

 

"'You have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children': Navy SEAL who oversaw the Osama bin Laden raid rebukes Trump in stunning opinion column"

 

 

Adm McRaven can only be described as a true American hero.  He's done more for his country than the likes of Hannity, Trump, Jones, Limbaugh, Carlson, Ingraham, etc....combined.  The guy doesn't have a political bone in his body.  But just for being honest and courageous, he will be attacked from the crazy right for saying what is essentially the truth.  And those of us real Americans agree with him.  More from his statement on Trump....

 

[ Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs.  A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself.

Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

And those of us real Americans agree with him.

 

So you're saying that Robert J. O'neill, Conservative and one of the Navy SEALS that killed Osama Bin Laden, is not a "real american"... But you are, in all of your liberal TVF Posting glory. 

 

And I guess you're saying that I'm not a real American either. 

 

I bet you didnt even know who McRaven was before he decided to become a pundit and dunk on trump, but now hes your hero and a patriot ?

 

 

7 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

So you're saying that Robert J. O'neill, Conservative and one of the Navy SEALS that killed Osama Bin Laden, is not a "real american"... But you are, in all of your liberal TVF Posting glory. 

 

And I guess you're saying that I'm not a real American either. 

 

I bet you didnt even know who McRaven was before he decided to become a pundit and dunk on trump, but now hes your hero and a patriot ?

 

 

The claims that O'Neill killed bin Laden came on October 5, 2014, in anticipation of a Fox News special called The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden,^[14] which was expected to reveal his identity and details of the mission Operation Neptune Spear... 

O'Neill's statements resulted in criticism by fellow Navy SEALs. Rear Admiral Brian Losey and Force Master Chief Michael Magaraci issued a public statement, stating that "a critical tenant [sic] of our ethos is 'I do not advertise the nature of my work, nor seek recognition for my actions.'"^[17]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._O'Neill_(U.S._Navy_SEAL)}

6 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

So you're saying that Robert J. O'neill, Conservative and one of the Navy SEALS that killed Osama Bin Laden, is not a "real american"... But you are, in all of your liberal TVF Posting glory. 

 

And I guess you're saying that I'm not a real American either. 

 

I bet you didnt even know who McRaven was before he decided to become a pundit and dunk on trump, but now hes your hero and a patriot ?

 

 

Actually I did know McRaven before all this.  He commanded the forces that took out Bin Laden.  I don't know O'neill.  True Americans want to unite the country, not divide it.  Trump is a divider who is destroying America.  For that, I hope the bastard Trump rots in hell.  Hope you get my point. 

46 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

I'll take the opinion of the actual SEAL's on the ground rather than activist retiree pundits.

 

What makes him an activist?  He has a grand total of TWO tweets on Twitter.  If that makes you an activist, what does 38,600 tweets make Trump?

 

Why does it matter that he's a retiree?

 

What makes him a pundit?  Does he have a talk show?

 

You better order more mud, because you are clearly running out of names to throw.

Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog)

8/17/18, 8:44 AM

These people with unique and important perspectives on the Trump campaign's relationship to Russia, what would revoking their security clearance do to their ability to prepare testimony and to testify? pic.twitter.com/j1ZBF9PlUv

9 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog)

8/17/18, 8:44 AM

These people with unique and important perspectives on the Trump campaign's relationship to Russia, what would revoking their security clearance do to their ability to prepare testimony and to testify? pic.twitter.com/j1ZBF9PlUv

 

So he's attacking potential witnesses.  That makes more sense.

11 minutes ago, Becker said:

I do.

 

So you're saying Im not a real american, but you are 

 

 

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by UncleTouchyFingers

15 minutes ago, Becker said:

UncleTouchyFingers has the reality disconnect of a true man-child supporter. As you pointed out McRaven has two (2) tweets on Twitter - the Uncle has 465 posts on TVF. Who's the "activist pundit"?

 

Flattered you're comparing me to McRaven. Its stupid, but flattering. 

13 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Flattered you're comparing me to McRaven. Its stupid, but flattering. 

 

What's stupid is somebody who doesn't know the difference between comparing and contrasting.

21 hours ago, farcanell said:

Hitler was elected.... and was ultimately granted dictatorial powers. It was a process.

 

trump was elected.... and appears to be seeking to gain a position whereby he can act out with impunity.... it is a process

 

one liked nazis... one is enlightened and favors neo nazis ???

false equivalency and really silly

A couple of personal attacks and an inflammatory post have been removed

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

 

So he's attacking potential witnesses.  That makes more sense.

witness to what?  are you so naive to think that if there was actually something illegal it would not be leaked out in the past 18 months?

 

 Maddow? <deleted>

Trump himself has admitted publicly that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation and is pulling the security clearances of those he considers associated with the Russia investigation.

As an American citizen of any stripe- I would hope that all would recognize that the FBI; CIA and other intelligence and investigative agency has a sworn duty to determine if anyone in the campaign of Donald Trump including himself colluded with the Russians to get elected.

 

There is also some preliminary and at present uncollaborated evidence that Trump may have been laundering Russian money through his business prior to even running for President;  that the dossier may be truthful and that Trump and/or his minions maybe compromised by the Russians and that there is a threat to American National security/

 

It maybe that Trump is  not involved and he will be cleared but his actions seem to be one of a guilty person trying to hide his activity and eliminate anyone or everything that could potentially incriminate him as a potential criminal or at the worst a traitor to America.

 

As a citizen who wants to know the full truth- the investigation must continue until all facts are known and actions then taken.

 

   I cannot understand why anyone who cares about their country would not want to find the truth. Do some people love Donald Trump so much that they would sell out their own country to keep him as President?

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

Trump himself has admitted publicly that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation and is pulling the security clearances of those he considers associated with the Russia investigation.

As an American citizen of any stripe- I would hope that all would recognize that the FBI; CIA and other intelligence and investigative agency has a sworn duty to determine if anyone in the campaign of Donald Trump including himself colluded with the Russians to get elected.

 

There is also some preliminary and at present uncollaborated evidence that Trump may have been laundering Russian money through his business prior to even running for President;  that the dossier may be truthful and that Trump and/or his minions maybe compromised by the Russians and that there is a threat to American National security/

 

It maybe that Trump is  not involved and he will be cleared but his actions seem to be one of a guilty person trying to hide his activity and eliminate anyone or everything that could potentially incriminate him as a potential criminal or at the worst a traitor to America.

 

As a citizen who wants to know the full truth- the investigation must continue until all facts are known and actions then taken.

 

   I cannot understand why anyone who cares about their country would not want to find the truth. Do some people love Donald Trump so much that they would sell out their own country to keep him as President?

So finding the "truth" in your opinion means the DOJ and FBI refusing to turn over documents for over a year and when they do they purposely redact things under the excuse of national security, then it is found there was no such issue.....

 

do you "care" about your country and the corruption within the DOJ and FBI (at the least) that has obviously been going on? Again. if you actually think the hiding and purposeful disregarding of information requests and redacting to protect their actions is no big deal, and hatred for the potus is your driving force, there is no objective reasoning.

 

 

hmmmm, nothing to see here, no secrets, no subversion....move on so we can delay until "we" get control of the house....

 

at least be honest about the lack of transparency and why it is happening, unless you agree with it. then I guess there is hope

21 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Good Lord!    Talk about fake news-  Trump continues to  state the reason he lost the popular vote- almost 3 million illegals  were allowed to vote and they all voted for Clinton.  Trump postulates that Comey and the FBI were out to get him. He then refuse to believe the FBI. the CIA and even foreign intelligence services that Russia and Putin  interfered in the US election. This is the same Russia and Putin that sends agents to poison it's citizens who dare to disagree; invade other countries and take their land; and uses the Russian Mafia to launder money

 

Now we are led to believe that an American/British agent may have bee planted in the Trump campaign.  I hope so- because when a person is suspected of dealing with an American enemy- and wants to become President- they need to be investigated.   Why is Trump so worried about the Mueller investigation?  If he has nothing to hide- simply say nothing and let the investigation continue.

 

The reason Trump is so fearful is :

 

A.  He knows the Dossier is true and it contains real damaging evidence

 

B. He knows that any FBI/CIA plant in his campaign has evidence on how he colluded with the Russians and potentially used the Russians to gain the Presidency.

 

C.   At one time Trump was facing bankruptcy and he made deals with the Russian oligarchs ala Putin to purchase Trump real estate at inflated prices- pocketing the difference. It's called money laundering.

 

Let the investigation continue to its conclusion- If Comrade Trump did no wrong- he will be vindicated. Don't  any of the Trump supporters want the truth?

• The so-called "dossier" has produced nothing
• No evidence of collusion
• Trumps' companies have gone bankrupt not Trump, this is public record. The IRS has his Tax returns, no evidence of unlawful conduct. Selling something for more than it is worth is called Business. Any Russian with money is labeled an oligarch, nobody can state what that actually means. If there is evidence of some quid pro quo lets hear it? Trump could not even get a Hotel built there he has them all over. Crickets. There is no Russia. Trump won a landslide. I think most people had made up their minds but if a few people changed theirs because of the Tweets and FB posts of Russian internet trolls I have a question How did Obama win a primary against Clinton nobody had heard of him before 2007? 

16 hours ago, Credo said:

Wow, you have no idea how many people have security clearance, but you know there are 'way too many' people that have security clearance? 

 

There are currently about 1.3 million people with security clearance.   Nearly all of those are active employees of the various agencies or the military.   

 

This is a personal vendetta against anyone Trump doesn't like.   None of the people being mentioned have violated any law nor divulged any classified information.   There sin is they have been involved in the investigation into the various Russia investigations.   

 

So, they have had their security clearance revoked for doing their job.   

 

This is nothing more than a personal enemies list, not unlike the one that got Nixon to resign.   

hmmmm, i wonder what other admin kept an enemies list....let me see if I can remember......

I'm with her...?

 

don't get too twisted off

 

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Trump himself has admitted publicly that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation and is pulling the security clearances of those he considers associated with the Russia investigation.

As an American citizen of any stripe- I would hope that all would recognize that the FBI; CIA and other intelligence and investigative agency has a sworn duty to determine if anyone in the campaign of Donald Trump including himself colluded with the Russians to get elected.

 

There is also some preliminary and at present uncollaborated evidence that Trump may have been laundering Russian money through his business prior to even running for President;  that the dossier may be truthful and that Trump and/or his minions maybe compromised by the Russians and that there is a threat to American National security/

 

It maybe that Trump is  not involved and he will be cleared but his actions seem to be one of a guilty person trying to hide his activity and eliminate anyone or everything that could potentially incriminate him as a potential criminal or at the worst a traitor to America.

 

As a citizen who wants to know the full truth- the investigation must continue until all facts are known and actions then taken.

 

   I cannot understand why anyone who cares about their country would not want to find the truth. Do some people love Donald Trump so much that they would sell out their own country to keep him as President?

 So on the first intel briefing as POTUS, J.Comey met the day before with Brennan and Clapper. Comey being the Career Professional that he is thought not to tell PT that the FBI were investigating  his campaign staff and  transition team  and that the Clinton and DNC paid for a OP research of him,because  -- "it wasn't necessary for my goal, which was to alert him that we had this information".  this is why Comey got fired,he held back intel from the POTUS! Comey , Brennan and Clapper cared so much about their country,their power went above and beyond  .They so opposed and hated Mr. Trump,  they were conspiring  to take down a president elect and president . If Mr.Trump didn't win the world would of never knew about the coup.

If you refresh your memory and watch Apocalyspe Now again, you'll remember, Kurtz was "out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any himanly acceptable conduct." "His ideas, and methods became, unsound. And he has very obviously gone insane".

 

Kurtz also had an "army that worshiped him like a God, and followed every order, no matter how ridiculous". 

 

In the end, Kurtz's command needed to be terminated. 

Edited August 17, 20187 yr by utalkin2me

1 hour ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

• The so-called "dossier" has produced nothing

 

What a ridiculous statement.  It's full of corroborating evidence.  That's like saying "The dictionary has not produced any great works of literature".

 

1 hour ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

• No evidence of collusion

 

Trump has now admitted his son met with Russians to get dirt on an opponent. That's collusion.  You need to keep up - you're supposed to be saying "collusion's not a crime" now.

 

1 hour ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

• Trump won in a landslide

 

At this point I don't know why I bother with you, since this is a bold-faced lie.  STOP LYING.

304 to 227 is a landslide. 

5 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

What a ridiculous statement.  It's full of corroborating evidence.  That's like saying "The dictionary has not produced any great works of literature".

 

 

Trump has now admitted his son met with Russians to get dirt on an opponent. That's collusion.  You need to keep up - you're supposed to be saying "collusion's not a crime" now.

 

 

At this point I don't know why I bother with you, since this is a bold-faced lie.  STOP LYING.

And just to add to this, the Mueller investigation is not just about proving collusion anyway. 

In fact the word 'collusion' isn't even on Muellers special council appointment letter. The investigation is about investigating links or co-ordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign and covers 5 very specific topics:

Financial dealings

Prosecutors are scrutinizing the financial dealings of President Trump's associates, including his former campaign chairman's previous consulting work in Ukraine and the business practices of his personal lawyer (see Paul Manafort)

Russian interference

Mueller is examining how Russia intervened in the 2016 presidential campaign, including through the circulation of fake news and divisive Internet memes and the hacking of Democratic emails.

Campaign coordination

Investigating contacts between Trump's associates and people working on behalf of Russians to determine whether there is evidence that Trump's campaign conspired with Russia to interfere in the campaign (this is the closest part to collusion).

Transition contacts

Looking into communications between the Russians and Trump officials during the transition period after Trump was elected but before his inauguration.

Obstruction of justice

Prosecutors are focusing on whether actions by Trump and his associates after he took office indicate an effort to obstruct the Russia investigation.

 

And so far it has yielded 5 convictions and 27 indictments to include four former Trump advisers (all American), 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man (American), and one London-based lawyer. 

There have been no prosecutions regarding 'collusion' as that is not the primary objective of the investigation but with 5 convictions and 27 indictments, you can be damned sure that the proof that the  Russians interfered in the US election is absolutely solid and that it is just a matter of time before one of them rolls over and points the finger at Trump himself.

 

But hey, this is all just facts. Something we know you Trumpers have an aversion to.  

So when is Mueller going to provide evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part?  Time's a wastin'. 

1 minute ago, Kelsall said:

So when is Mueller going to provide evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part?  Time's a wastin'. 

When Don Junior rolls over