Witkoff and Kushner chase peace but Lavrov warns Germany ‘real war’ has begun

Trump's peace team goes from Putin to Zelenskyy

Donald Trump's peace push has produced one extraordinary picture of the Ukraine war.

On Saturday, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner were sitting down with Vladimir Putin in Moscow.

On Sunday, they were in Kyiv meeting Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

The message from Washington is that the diplomatic process is moving again.

But while Trump's envoys are travelling between the two capitals trying to find a way to stop the war, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov is warning that confrontation with Germany has entered an entirely different and much more dangerous phase.

Peace mission on one side. “Real war” rhetoric on the other.

Three hours with Putin

Witkoff and Kushner spent more than three hours with Putin in Moscow before travelling to Kyiv.

The Kremlin described the discussions as useful and said the Americans had arrived prepared to discuss possible ways of ending the conflict.

The White House has also been talking up the possibility of further negotiations, including efforts to revive a trilateral process involving Washington, Moscow and Kyiv.

But there was no breakthrough.

And that matters.

Because after more than four years of war, the difference between “we had a useful meeting” and “we have a peace deal” is enormous.

Then came Zelenskyy

The American delegation went straight from Moscow to Kyiv for its first visit there since the full-scale invasion began.

Witkoff described the discussions with Zelenskyy as meaningful and substantive, while Ukrainian officials said the new American proposals appeared more effective than previous efforts.

There was also talk of restarting direct Russia-Ukraine negotiations and eventually getting the three sides back around the same table.

That is the good news.

The bad news is that nobody is pretending the war has stopped.

Zelenskyy expects the war to continue

After the meeting, Zelenskyy warned that the war currently looks likely to continue into the winter.

No major breakthrough was announced.

Ukraine is still asking for additional air-defence systems, including Patriot missiles, while discussions also covered support for the coming winter and the country's battered energy infrastructure.

So the picture is rather strange.

The peace negotiators are optimistic.

The Ukrainian president is preparing for another winter of war.

And Russian forces are still attacking Ukraine.

Then Lavrov opens his mouth

Enter Sergei Lavrov.

Russia's veteran foreign minister has reacted furiously to Germany's accusation that Moscow was behind a drone incident at Leipzig/Halle Airport.

Berlin concluded that Russia was responsible and took diplomatic measures against Moscow.

Russia denies the allegation and says Germany is fabricating evidence.

Lavrov went considerably further.

He said the Western accusations were, “by and large, the start of a real war.”

That is a remarkable statement at precisely the moment when Trump's representatives are trying to negotiate an end to the war.

Is Germany becoming the new flashpoint?

Nobody should mistake Lavrov's words for a formal Russian declaration of war on Germany.

They aren't.

But the language is nevertheless significant.

Berlin is one of Ukraine's most important European supporters, and relations between Germany and Moscow have deteriorated dramatically since Russia invaded Ukraine.

Moscow sees growing European military support for Kyiv as direct Western involvement.

Germany and its allies, meanwhile, argue that supporting Ukraine is necessary to prevent Russian aggression spreading further into Europe.

That makes every new accusation, drone incident or military escalation potentially more dangerous.

The peace mission is racing the clock

This may be the most important part of the story.

Trump's envoys have managed to get back into the room with Putin and Zelenskyy.

That is not nothing.

After months of diplomatic frustration, the Americans have at least managed to put the machinery of negotiations back into motion. Washington says the latest discussions created new momentum, and further talks are being considered.

But meanwhile the battlefield continues.

Russia has not abandoned its military objectives, Ukraine has not accepted territorial concessions that it considers unacceptable, and Zelenskyy is warning that the fighting could continue through winter.

And now the rhetoric between Russia and Germany is getting hotter.

Peace talks — while the temperature rises

That leaves us with the extraordinary contradiction at the centre of the story.

Witkoff and Kushner are travelling between Moscow and Kyiv trying to stop the war.

Putin is talking to them.

Zelenskyy is talking to them.

Washington says there is fresh momentum.

And at almost exactly the same moment, Russia's foreign minister is warning that accusations involving Germany could mark the beginning of a “real war.”

That doesn't mean World War III has begun.

It does mean the diplomatic window is opening at a particularly dangerous moment.

The big question

Can Trump's peace team move quickly enough to turn these conversations into something real?

Because if the answer is yes, the Moscow-to-Kyiv journey could eventually be remembered as the moment the negotiations came back to life.

But if diplomacy stalls while the rhetoric between Russia and Europe continues to escalate, the danger is obvious.

The men trying to stop the Ukraine war may be racing against the men still talking as though a much bigger war could be coming.

AN ORIGINAL CONTENT

Oh, Geez.

Putin wants surrender or nothing.

Trump’s corrupt lackeys want to increase their corruption gained billions.

This "peace" trip was a farce.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh, Geez.

Putin wants surrender or nothing.

Trump’s corrupt lackeys want to increase their corruption gained billions.

This "peace" trip was a farce.

I don't think it was a farce. Trump needs to get the war in Ukraine stopped because he had promised he could end the war. The more it continues, the more clout Iran has because the Russian oil is sanctioned. Trump wants Russian oil to flood the world market, He also wants access to Russian minerals because he has started a trade war with one of the USA's most important trade partners for resources, Canada. The Russians won't help Trump with Iran or the Middle east and he needs their support or at least their non interference to get a peace deal. If Trump could throw Ukraine under the bus he would.

The Russians will need to rebuild their country and to finance it, they will have to flood the world market with minerals, oil and gas.Trump wants those resources at a bargain cost to offset the cost of his misguided tariff policy.

Hopefully, the Ukrainians hold out for another winter and make the Russians pay a steep cost for their brutality.

Withdraw from Ukraine' is the only negotiation that should be taking place not shady Don' Don' deals.

Ukraine should have quit while they still had ports. Instead, they keep pinpricking the bear, forcing Putin to take more than he really wanted.

“Ukrainian political leadership is always motivated to escalate, despite the fact that they are destined to lose any sort of tit-for-tat, because Russia can almost always hurt Ukraine more than Ukraine can hurt Russia ” Peter Slezkine, senior fellow and director of the Russia Program at the Stimson Center, told the Daily Caller News Foundation.

Ukraine’s Situation Grows Dire As Russia Continues To Hammer Ports | The Daily Caller

Concentrated Russian attacks on Yuzhny Port outside Odessa “means the destruction of warehouses containing stockpiled fuels and lubricants used by the Ukrainian military, and, in fact, the country itself,” military expert and retired colonel Anatoliy Matviychuk told Sputnik.

“Ukraine is currently experiencing a huge shortage of fuels and lubricants based on oil and its derivatives. With winter approaching, this not only undermines the army’s combat power, but also creates social tensions in Ukraine, and lack of heat and electricity.”

Russian strikes on Odessa designed to paralyze Ukraine’s war machine, undermine its fighting spirit

1 hour ago, impulse said:

forcing Putin to take more than he really wanted.

How do you know what "Putin really wanted"?

5 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

How do you know what "Putin really wanted"?

He told us, going in. Then he held a referendum when he had it. Even if you believe the referendum was a sham, why would he have bothered to hold it?

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

He told us, going in. Then he held a referendum when he had it. Even if you believe the referendum was a sham, why would he have bothered to hold it?

"He told us" What?

2 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

"He told us" What?

Watch the Tucker Carlson interview.

1 minute ago, impulse said:

Watch the Tucker Carlson interview.

Why?

You made a meaningless statement. I have asked you to clarify it! Not anyone else!

Just now, scottiejohn said:

Why?

You made a meaningless statement. I have asked you to clarify it! Not anyone else!

Well then, don't watch it. I couldn't give a rat's ass that you'd prefer to stay ignorant.

And after you've watched it, I'll be glad to discuss what he said.

Arguing with you guys is like going to a book club with a bunch of people who didn't read the book. They just read the reviews.

Edited Monday at 08:02 AM2 days by impulse

1 minute ago, impulse said:

Well then, don't watch it. I couldn't give a rat's ass that you'd prefer to stay ignorant.

And after you've watched it, I'll be glad to discuss what he said.

So, you do not have a clue what you are posting about and are hiding behind a single TV broadcaster to attempt to cover up your total lack of knowledge regarding the now obvious cr@p that you just posted!

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Ukraine should have quit while they still had ports. Instead, they keep pinpricking the bear, forcing Putin to take more than he really wanted.

“Ukrainian political leadership is always motivated to escalate, despite the fact that they are destined to lose any sort of tit-for-tat, because Russia can almost always hurt Ukraine more than Ukraine can hurt Russia ” Peter Slezkine, senior fellow and director of the Russia Program at the Stimson Center, told the Daily Caller News Foundation.

Ukraine’s Situation Grows Dire As Russia Continues To Hammer Ports | The Daily Caller

Concentrated Russian attacks on Yuzhny Port outside Odessa “means the destruction of warehouses containing stockpiled fuels and lubricants used by the Ukrainian military, and, in fact, the country itself,” military expert and retired colonel Anatoliy Matviychuk told Sputnik.

“Ukraine is currently experiencing a huge shortage of fuels and lubricants based on oil and its derivatives. With winter approaching, this not only undermines the army’s combat power, but also creates social tensions in Ukraine, and lack of heat and electricity.”

Russian strikes on Odessa designed to paralyze Ukraine’s war machine, undermine its fighting spirit

Indeed, initially Putin's aims were rather modest, however, now the situation is much worse for Ukraine.

Let's see if they have any sense left.

One has to marvel at Putin's deliberate, slow, expert, management of this war. Outstanding preparation, careful execution and unhurried end game.

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

So, you do not have a clue what you are posting about and are hiding behind a single TV broadcaster to attempt to cover up your total lack of knowledge regarding the now obvious cr@p that you just posted!

Have a nice day.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Indeed, initially Putin's aims were rather modest,

What were those aims and where were they published?

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

Have a nice day.

So, you admit that you are totally incapable of supporting or answering questions wrt your posts!

Good bye!

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

One has to marvel at Putin's deliberate, slow, expert, management of this war. Outstanding preparation, careful execution and unhurried end game.

He's shown great restraint. He realizes that Ukraine will be their neighbor after it's over.

20 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

What were those aims and where were they published?

Many places, as impulse has said, interviews, speeches, publications, public meetings, like this one for instance:

"In the West, the prevailing narrative is that Russia initiated the war with its special military operation and is therefore the aggressor, so it is allowed to attack the Russian territory using Western weaponry. It is argued that Ukraine is merely defending itself, and is justified in doing so.

I want to reiterate: Russia did not start the war. It was the Kiev regime that initiated hostilities, following the declaration of independence by residents of certain parts of Ukraine in accordance with international law, and continues to do so. If we do not recognise the right of these peoples to declare their independence, then this is indeed aggression. Those who have supported the Kiev regime’s war machine over the years are, therefore, accomplices to this aggression.

Back in 2014, the residents of Donbass refused to surrender. Militia units stood their ground, repelled the punitive forces, and eventually pushed them back from Donetsk and Lugansk. We hoped this would bring those who initiated the violence to their senses. To halt the bloodshed, Russia made its customary appeals for negotiations. Talks began, involving Kiev and representatives of the Donbass republics, with the support of Russia, Germany, and France."

https://mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1957107/

It's a slog, but if you read this you will see that from Russia's perspective initially there were very limited war aims related to the Russian groups in the Donbass. Of course now Putin is considering taking all the Donbass, given the toll of blood Russia had to pay.

Edited Monday at 08:31 AM2 days by Cameroni

And you still believe that hogwash!

Goodbye delusional Putin puppet!

ISW: Putin's forces will miss his Donetsk deadline by years at current rate

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW), in its September 6 assessment, found that Russian forces advanced an average of 2.36 square kilometers per day in Donetsk Oblast during August 2026.

Across the whole theater the figure was slightly higher, at 2.91 square kilometers per day.

The thing is that nineteen percent of Donetsk, which is one of the Oblasts making up the highly contested Donbas Region, remains outside Russian control, and at the August pace, ISW wrote, Russian forces would take until October 2, 2032, to seize the remaining 19 percent of Donetsk Oblast.

That is more than a year after Russia’s next scheduled State Duma elections in September 2031.

The 2032 date directly contradicts Putin’s latest public order: capture the whole of Donetsk by December 31, 2026.

A pattern of missed deadlines

That order is not the first. ISW counted “no fewer than 15 reported deadlines” set by Putin for the seizure of Donetsk Oblast since February 2022. Russian forces have missed every one.

Part of the gap between Kremlin ambition and battlefield reality, the assessment argued, is internal. Senior Russian commanders “routinely present exaggerated Russian advances” up the chain, ISW writes, as part of a “systematic cognitive warfare effort” that projects a picture of Ukrainian collapse.

Russian military bloggers have a name for the dishonest reporting culture: “beautiful reports.”

The consequence, ISW argued, is that Putin governs on numbers that do not match the ground. His “battlefield fiction remains divorced from the reality of Ukraine’s defensive abilities, Russia’s own degraded offensive capabilities, and the difficult and expansive terrain Russian forces must still fight through,” the assessment read.

ISW: Putin's forces will miss his Donetsk deadline by years at current rate

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Many places, as impulse has said, interviews, speeches, publications, public meetings, like this one for instance:

"In the West, the prevailing narrative is that Russia initiated the war with its special military operation and is therefore the aggressor, so it is allowed to attack the Russian territory using Western weaponry. It is argued that Ukraine is merely defending itself, and is justified in doing so.

I want to reiterate: Russia did not start the war. It was the Kiev regime that initiated hostilities, following the declaration of independence by residents of certain parts of Ukraine in accordance with international law, and continues to do so. If we do not recognise the right of these peoples to declare their independence, then this is indeed aggression. Those who have supported the Kiev regime’s war machine over the years are, therefore, accomplices to this aggression.

Back in 2014, the residents of Donbass refused to surrender. Militia units stood their ground, repelled the punitive forces, and eventually pushed them back from Donetsk and Lugansk. We hoped this would bring those who initiated the violence to their senses. To halt the bloodshed, Russia made its customary appeals for negotiations. Talks began, involving Kiev and representatives of the Donbass republics, with the support of Russia, Germany, and France."

https://mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1957107/

It's a slog, but if you read this you will see that from Russia's perspective initially there were very limited war aims related to the Russian groups in the Donbass. Of course now Putin is considering taking all the Donbass, given the toll of blood Russia had to pay.

Repeating the tired old Kremlin lies another time just in case anyone hasn't read such garbage 100 times already.

Those two morons chasing peace is a bit like Miley Cyrus chasing a jazz classic, or Pauly Shore chasing a Nobel Peace Prize in science. Or Donald Trump running an economy efficiently, or getting along with friends, neighbors and allies.

18 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Many places, as impulse has said, interviews, speeches, publications, public meetings, like this one for instance:

"In the West, the prevailing narrative is that Russia initiated the war with its special military operation and is therefore the aggressor, so it is allowed to attack the Russian territory using Western weaponry. It is argued that Ukraine is merely defending itself, and is justified in doing so.

I want to reiterate: Russia did not start the war. It was the Kiev regime that initiated hostilities, following the declaration of independence by residents of certain parts of Ukraine in accordance with international law, and continues to do so. If we do not recognise the right of these peoples to declare their independence, then this is indeed aggression. Those who have supported the Kiev regime’s war machine over the years are, therefore, accomplices to this aggression.

Back in 2014, the residents of Donbass refused to surrender. Militia units stood their ground, repelled the punitive forces, and eventually pushed them back from Donetsk and Lugansk. We hoped this would bring those who initiated the violence to their senses. To halt the bloodshed, Russia made its customary appeals for negotiations. Talks began, involving Kiev and representatives of the Donbass republics, with the support of Russia, Germany, and France."

https://mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1957107/

It's a slog, but if you read this you will see that from Russia's perspective initially there were very limited war aims related to the Russian groups in the Donbass. Of course now Putin is considering taking all the Donbass, given the toll of blood Russia had to pay.

Are you freaking kidding me..

Seriously.

I mean SERIOUSLY.

Putin only wanted a little bit of Ukraine ...you're delusional ,he wanted everything,and

if he had won in Ukraine would have moved to take back all the former Soviet East

European countries back ,that's just who he is , now threatening Germany and UK with

war...

regards worgeordie

18 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And you still believe that hogwash!

Goodbye delusional Putin puppet!

Putin's useful idiots.

I'm speechless about how ignorant they are, jumping straight into Russian propaganda.

Putin not only invaded Ukraine, he attempted to take Kiev. Many atrocities were committed on that march, all well documented and publicized.

Putin attempted to take the whole of Kiev by overthrowing the government in the city and installing a puppet regime.

This is all well documented

Edited yesterday at 02:54 AM1 day by JBChiangRai

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Putin not only invaded Ukraine, he attempted to take Kiev. Many atrocities were committed on that March, all well documented and publicized.

The attempted to take the whole of Kiev by overthrowing the government in the city and installing a puppet regime.

This is all well documented

Correct:

Hostomel Airport suffered severe destruction during a fierce battle in the opening days of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

The 2022 Attack and Battle

• On February 24, 2022, Russian airborne forces launched a surprise helicopter assault to seize Antonov Airport (Hostomel Airport), located just northwest of Kyiv.

  Wikipedia +2

• Russia planned to use the strategic airfield as a bridgehead to fly in heavy transport planes carrying thousands of troops to quickly capture Kyiv.

  Reddit·r/WarCollege +1

• Ukrainian National Guard forces and artillery fiercely resisted the attack, damaging the runway with shelling to prevent heavy Russian transport planes from landing.

  Center for a New American Security | CNAS +2

• Although Russian reinforcements eventually captured the heavily damaged facility, the fierce Ukrainian defense ruined Russia’s blitzkrieg plan to take the capital.

• Ukrainian forces regained control of the airport on April 2, 2022, after Russian troops withdrew from the Kyiv region.

Edited yesterday at 02:57 AM1 day by thaibreaker

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Putin not only invaded Ukraine, he attempted to take Kiev. Many atrocities were committed on that march, all well documented and publicized.

Putin attempted to take the whole of Kiev by overthrowing the government in the city and installing a puppet regime.

This is all well documented

The alternative explanation is that the move on Kiev was a feint in an effort to scare the Zelenskyy regime into fleeing to their mansions around the world, and he didn't really want Kiev.

I wasn't in the planning meetings, so I don't know who's telling the truth.

Donald Trump’s peace envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner have been confronted over their talks with “war criminal” Russian president Vladimir Putin.

In a news conference in Kyiv alongside Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday, Ukrainian journalist Dmytro Gordon asked whether Putin was deceiving the US president.

“You have met with President Putin very often. Does it seem to you that Putin has been deceiving you all this time?,” he said according to the Kyiv Post.

“And finally, don’t you find it disgusting to sit at the same table with an international war criminal, the executioner of the Ukrainian people, who is personally responsible for the tragedy in Ukraine?” he added.

Trump envoys confronted over Putin talks during Kyiv visit: ‘Don’t you find it disgusting?’ | The Independent

On 9/7/2026 at 7:44 PM, impulse said:

He told us, going in. Then he held a referendum when he had it. Even if you believe the referendum was a sham, why would he have bothered to hold it?

Because he is a megolamaniacal Sociopath