Some Dubious Real Estate People In Pattaya !

[midas]

After experiencing the property market in Bangkok over four years I now firmly believe the Pattaya

property market has many dubious people working in it ! I can certainly say categorically

it takes a great deal of effort to get an honest deal in Pattaya compared to Bangkok and the worst people

to deal with in Pattaya are some of the foreign estate agents and owners rather than Thai's !

I recently answered an advert in the Pattaya Mail to rent a condominium in Pattaya on a long-term

basis. The owner - or at least the person who claims to be the owner was a Dr.Rudolf B.Stuessi.

I found my entire dealings with this gentleman to cause suspicion and provide many reasons to feel

uneasy about his behaviour and even his background.

After I had responded to his advertisement by SMS, he immediately telephoned me with an

overwhelming enthusiasm!

While he claimed he didn't need the money and was only interested to rent the property out if he found

a " nice person " on a long-term basis it was only after I had made a specific journey from Bangkok

to Pattaya to see the property he then said all the rent for the 12 months term would HAVE TO BE

paid upfront !!!! There was no ground for negotiating !

I told him that in previous posts on Thai Visa members had generally expressed

disapproval with this practice but can you believe he urged me not to believe what I read on

the Internet but to rely more on my own judgment ! By now he seemed desperate and was

almost using high-pressure tactics to get me to agree to the 12 month advance payment at which point

I told him quite emphatically if the deal relied on that he could forget it and we might as well terminate

our discussions. In previous telephone discussions and again during our meeting I had emphasised

I would pay three months rent in advance and he would be able to speak to my landlord in Bangkok

with whom I have had an excellent relationship who would be most willing to provide a first-class

reference. He claimed the reason for his insistence on

the advance payment was to ensure I wouldn't leave before the end of the lease but my concern

was that if the property was sold before the lease term was finished I may be out-of-pocket if the

subsequent buyer failed to recognise the lease.

The entire mannerisms of this gentleman made me suspicious. He claims to be a lawyer but

having dealt with many lawyers myself he just didn't seem to have the same " prudence " as a normal lawyer

would have. He seemed totally oblivious to my concern which for a person

who claims to be a lawyer just didnt seem consistent ?

After asking him in which area of the law he had practiced he said had been an international

mergers and acquisitions lawyer in Switzerland but later in an e-mail he claimed he had also

been President of the Criminal Court of Switzerland for eight years and he had been a Colonel

in the Swiss Army. In addition to this, he had lived in Thailand for 14 years !

All of a sudden we are starting to run out of years because he's not that old!

His whole appearance and mannerisms as well as his approach to these

discussions gave me a very bad feeling. I just wondered if anyone in Pattaya knows of this

person or has had any previous dealings with him ?

[adaminsamui]

After experiencing the property market in Bangkok over four years I now firmly believe the Pattaya

property market has many dubious people working in it ! I can certainly say categorically

it takes a great deal of effort to get an honest deal in Pattaya compared to Bangkok and the worst people

to deal with in Pattaya are some of the foreign estate agents and owners rather than Thai's !

I recently answered an advert in the Pattaya Mail to rent a condominium in Pattaya on a long-term

basis. The owner - or at least the person who claims to be the owner was a Dr.Rudolf B.Stuessi.

I found my entire dealings with this gentleman to cause suspicion and provide many reasons to feel

uneasy about his behaviour and even his background.

After I had responded to his advertisement by SMS, he immediately telephoned me with an

overwhelming enthusiasm!

While he claimed he didn't need the money and was only interested to rent the property out if he found

a " nice person " on a long-term basis it was only after I had made a specific journey from Bangkok

to Pattaya to see the property he then said all the rent for the 12 months term would HAVE TO BE

paid upfront !!!! There was no ground for negotiating !

I told him that in previous posts on Thai Visa members had generally expressed

disapproval with this practice but can you believe he urged me not to believe what I read on

the Internet but to rely more on my own judgment ! By now he seemed desperate and was

almost using high-pressure tactics to get me to agree to the 12 month advance payment at which point

I told him quite emphatically if the deal relied on that he could forget it and we might as well terminate

our discussions. In previous telephone discussions and again during our meeting I had emphasised

I would pay three months rent in advance and he would be able to speak to my landlord in Bangkok

with whom I have had an excellent relationship who would be most willing to provide a first-class

reference. He claimed the reason for his insistence on

the advance payment was to ensure I wouldn't leave before the end of the lease but my concern

was that if the property was sold before the lease term was finished I may be out-of-pocket if the

subsequent buyer failed to recognise the lease.

The entire mannerisms of this gentleman made me suspicious. He claims to be a lawyer but

having dealt with many lawyers myself he just didn't seem to have the same " prudence " as a normal lawyer

would have. He seemed totally oblivious to my concern which for a person

who claims to be a lawyer just didnt seem consistent ?

After asking him in which area of the law he had practiced he said had been an international

mergers and acquisitions lawyer in Switzerland but later in an e-mail he claimed he had also

been President of the Criminal Court of Switzerland for eight years and he had been a Colonel

in the Swiss Army. In addition to this, he had lived in Thailand for 14 years !

All of a sudden we are starting to run out of years because he's not that old!

His whole appearance and mannerisms as well as his approach to these

discussions gave me a very bad feeling. I just wondered if anyone in Pattaya knows of this

person or has had any previous dealings with him ?

This is why you should deal with Rental companies, as you are covered against what was mentioned.

[midas]

After experiencing the property market in Bangkok over four years I now firmly believe the Pattaya

property market has many dubious people working in it ! I can certainly say categorically

it takes a great deal of effort to get an honest deal in Pattaya compared to Bangkok and the worst people

to deal with in Pattaya are some of the foreign estate agents and owners rather than Thai's !

I recently answered an advert in the Pattaya Mail to rent a condominium in Pattaya on a long-term

basis. The owner - or at least the person who claims to be the owner was a Dr.Rudolf B.Stuessi.

I found my entire dealings with this gentleman to cause suspicion and provide many reasons to feel

uneasy about his behaviour and even his background.

After I had responded to his advertisement by SMS, he immediately telephoned me with an

overwhelming enthusiasm!

While he claimed he didn't need the money and was only interested to rent the property out if he found

a " nice person " on a long-term basis it was only after I had made a specific journey from Bangkok

to Pattaya to see the property he then said all the rent for the 12 months term would HAVE TO BE

paid upfront !!!! There was no ground for negotiating !

I told him that in previous posts on Thai Visa members had generally expressed

disapproval with this practice but can you believe he urged me not to believe what I read on

the Internet but to rely more on my own judgment ! By now he seemed desperate and was

almost using high-pressure tactics to get me to agree to the 12 month advance payment at which point

I told him quite emphatically if the deal relied on that he could forget it and we might as well terminate

our discussions. In previous telephone discussions and again during our meeting I had emphasised

I would pay three months rent in advance and he would be able to speak to my landlord in Bangkok

with whom I have had an excellent relationship who would be most willing to provide a first-class

reference. He claimed the reason for his insistence on

the advance payment was to ensure I wouldn't leave before the end of the lease but my concern

was that if the property was sold before the lease term was finished I may be out-of-pocket if the

subsequent buyer failed to recognise the lease.

The entire mannerisms of this gentleman made me suspicious. He claims to be a lawyer but

having dealt with many lawyers myself he just didn't seem to have the same " prudence " as a normal lawyer

would have. He seemed totally oblivious to my concern which for a person

who claims to be a lawyer just didnt seem consistent ?

After asking him in which area of the law he had practiced he said had been an international

mergers and acquisitions lawyer in Switzerland but later in an e-mail he claimed he had also

been President of the Criminal Court of Switzerland for eight years and he had been a Colonel

in the Swiss Army. In addition to this, he had lived in Thailand for 14 years !

All of a sudden we are starting to run out of years because he's not that old!

His whole appearance and mannerisms as well as his approach to these

discussions gave me a very bad feeling. I just wondered if anyone in Pattaya knows of this

person or has had any previous dealings with him ?

This is why you should deal with Rental companies, as you are covered against what was mentioned.

you still have to be on your guard dealing with rental companies ! the moral of the story

in Pattaya is that you have to be on extra guard and never take anything for granted !

whether it's an owner, real estate agent or rental company you just need to

be more careful than perhaps you would in some other places

[cclub75]

His whole appearance and mannerisms as well as his approach to these

discussions gave me a very bad feeling. I just wondered if anyone in Pattaya knows of this

person or has had any previous dealings with him ?

I'm asking you : even without the "appearance" issues, how could you possibly have a doubt after the "12 month up front payment" request ?

It's a total joke.

Colonel in the swiss army, captain of new zealand football team, scotish gentleman farmer, president of Unilever, or even space traveler coming from Venus and having retirement in Thailand... forget it... i mean just focus on what is important : such a request, and "no negociable", in such a market (condo units in Pattaya probably outnumber... bar girls) is a plain, utter, glossy joke.

[midas]

His whole appearance and mannerisms as well as his approach to these

discussions gave me a very bad feeling. I just wondered if anyone in Pattaya knows of this

person or has had any previous dealings with him ?

I'm asking you : even without the "appearance" issues, how could you possibly have a doubt after the "12 month up front payment" request ?

It's a total joke.

Colonel in the swiss army, captain of new zealand football team, scotish gentleman farmer, president of Unilever, or even space traveler coming from Venus and having retirement in Thailand... forget it... i mean just focus on what is important : such a request, and "no negociable", in such a market (condo units in Pattaya probably outnumber... bar girls) is a plain, utter, glossy joke.

cclub75 don't forget he didn't spring this on me until I actually was in

Pattaya.the subject of twelve months in advance payment has been

discussed before and even though I don't believe in it about

25 percent of posters seemed to think it was okay in some circumstances! The

[mbkudu]

You cold always buy a condo, but like all nay sayers to buying here say, renting is so much better

[backflip]

Did you leave your spine on a bar stool? Do you live alone, or with your parents? From your post, I'm not sure you should be trusted with sharp objects. OK, someone lied to you - it happens. Someone tried to cheat you - it happens. You're very scared and suspicious of the big guy sitting across from you - we understand.

[midas]

Did you leave your spine on a bar stool? Do you live alone, or with your parents? From your post, I'm not sure you should be trusted with sharp objects. OK, someone lied to you - it happens. Someone tried to cheat you - it happens. You're very scared and suspicious of the big guy sitting across from you - we understand.

Thanks backflip ! it's quite obvious from the tone of your posting

you to happen to be interested in these discussions

never mind I'm sure there are other people in this forum

who may be able to make valuable use from this information

[midas]

You cold always buy a condo, but like all nay sayers to buying here say, renting is so much better

to buy a condo here I would need to sell my condo in Australia !

why on earth would I possibly want to do that

as far as I'm concerned whether your buy or rent in Pattaya

its the same market full of shysters!

[cclub75]

cclub75 don't forget he didn't spring this on me until I actually was in

Pattaya.the subject of twelve months in advance payment has been

discussed before and even though I don't believe in it about

25 percent of posters seemed to think it was okay in some circumstances! The

Fair enough regarding your cautious way of dealing. I don't think I took part in the "12 month upfront" thread.

But once again, from my personal point of view, it's just a matter of common sense.

There is no way such a demand could be legitimate in such market (condo market in Pattaya).

Unless :

-you have a very special deal : "I lower your rent by 50 % but you pay me upfront a whole year"

-it's the condo you want, in the location you want, and unfortunatly it's the only condo avalaible within a 65 kilometers radius...

-the owner is a friend, family, and you want to help etc.

However... I can perfectly understand that an owner -even a real one- is willing.. to try. Same issue with the duration of the rent agreement (some ask for 2 years, against the classic 1 year) etc. That's part of the game.

[quiksilva]

^^^ Absolutely, the guy could just be trying to protect his interests, all landlords throughout the world are the same, as the Trump says, its nothing personal its just business.

The landlord probably wants security of income (perhaps previous tenants had a poor payment history) or he is desperate for a capital lump sum.

If the latter is the case, he might just be willing to offer a more attractive rental rate.

Major foreign corporations here have paid entirely upfront for considerably longer leases, so, so long as your interests are thoroughly protected by your lease agreement * with a bit of luck, negotiations may just turn out to be worthwhile.

You dont have to commit until you sign a contract, just be sure to cover your bases and ensure that all written correspondance, that you issue, discussing terms is marked 'subject to contract'.

*PS never accept a 'standard' contract without your legal eagle giving it the thumbs up first and if you want to be certain that it is his, also ask for a copy of the title deed to be attached to the lease agreement, together with details of a company registration (if owned by a firm) that shows he is an authorised signatory.

[HowardJohnson]

I'm sorry Midas but can you explain why dealing with one particular dodgy guy who is renting his condo leads you to the conclusion that "the Pattaya property market has many dubious people working in it ! I can certainly say categorically

it takes a great deal of effort to get an honest deal in Pattaya compared to Bangkok and the worst people

to deal with in Pattaya are some of the foreign estate agents and owners rather than Thai's !"

And your subject title appears to specifically target Real Estate People (Ie: Brokers).

Why does this one bad experience lead you to believe this? Are there more stories to relate?

Thanks

HoJo

[midas]

I'm sorry Midas but can you explain why dealing with one particular dodgy guy who is renting his condo leads you to the conclusion that "the Pattaya property market has many dubious people working in it ! I can certainly say categorically

it takes a great deal of effort to get an honest deal in Pattaya compared to Bangkok and the worst people

to deal with in Pattaya are some of the foreign estate agents and owners rather than Thai's !"

And your subject title appears to specifically target Real Estate People (Ie: Brokers).

Why does this one bad experience lead you to believe this? Are there more stories to relate?

Thanks

HoJo

I will try to explain briefly.my comments are certainly not based on this one incident

I have an LL B from the UK even though I didn't practice a lawyer. so I am not

entirely unfamiliar with leases etc. many condominiums in Bangkok seemed to be owned

by Thai's -that's what I found since being here and the leases they present are generally

clear and unambiguous - this is not the case regarding the leases which are presented

by foreign brokers and owners in Pattaya

[sbk]

Please see the same thread in the Pattaya section to continue this discussion.

Multiple postings of the same topic is against forum rules

***Closed***