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More details on the new rules regarding work permits and working in Thailand


webfact

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the fine for working without a work permit was 8500thb. I know because that's what I got fined even though I had a work permit (with the wrong address in it) there was never jail time although I was locked up in a police station for about 12 hours. the whole work permit system is a debacle in Thailand that is just used to extort money out of foreigners. 8 years of being screwed around trying to keep my work permit going. 

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"Arguably the most significant change was that the Decree states that a foreigner who has  work permit in Thailand can now work anywhere and for anyone and carry out work not listed in the description on their work permit, providing it is not excluded under the list of occupations prohibited to foreigners."

 

We specifically consulted our (Thai) lawyers about this. They said that this is not a correct interpretation. Your work permit is still tied to a particular employer. The most major change (other than the relaxing of penalties) is that you do not need to amend your work permit to work at locations different from what is stated in the permit.

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1 hour ago, Muzarella said:

Interesting....

I am cooking Italian and Mexican specialities on my own restaurant for many years now without any work permit......and my best customers are the local immigration officers.

 

This is the best thing to do and we should ALL do it. Then lets see if these rats will deport us all !

But unfortunately too many foreigners are too stupid and just follow stupid rules.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, BigBadGeordie said:

The Kingdom will be flooded with driving instructors.

I think there's more money to be made as a paramedic or undertaker ? 

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Parts I would like to understand more.. 

 

Quote

 

Definition of “work” under the Working of Aliens Act, B.E. 2551 (2008) is very broad:

• “engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits”

• New definition of “work” under the Emergency Decree B.E. 2561 (2018)

• “engaging in any profession, with or without employer, but excluding operation of business of a licensee under the Foreign Business Law

 

Whats is a licensee under the foreign business law exactly ?? Registered branch office ?? 

 

Quote

− Persons who enter Thailand to operate business or to make investment or who have knowledge, ability, or high skills, which would be beneficial to the development of the country

These have been written as 'or' statements, I wonder if they should have been 'and' statements.. Previosuly this was indicated with ; which in legal documents is an 'or' indication also. 

 

Is it really anyone who enters thailand to operate a business ?? That makes no sense. 

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Seems I can't win.Can't vape on ecigs as they're illegal.

Even with a work permit can't roll a fag.Anyone know where I can buy nicotine patches?

Perhaps I can make a nice water bong out of a plastic bottle and smoke tobacco(only of course)through that.

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18 hours ago, webfact said:

".......new rules regarding work permits and working in Thailand"

Normally within the Thai bureaucratic process any changes to rules and regulations such as these usually lead to more confusion rather than clarification.

The fine print will always work in favour any Departmental prosecutions.

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18 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

Obviously, you still need to submit an application to amend your Work Permit when you change your residence address.

 

I don't trust any of this, and that is why I haven't commented on these new regs yet.  Who knows how all of this will actually be implemented?  I certainly don't trust the British Chamber of Commerce.  I have been in legal/HR in Thailand for 11 years and have learned not to trust any pronouncements or new regs until I hear from several MOL/BOI officials as to how they are being implemented.

 

The one thing I do trust is that foreigners who come for short stay company business, meetings, training, etc. do not need a work permit, but that only replaces the 15/30 day urgent expert work permit which was automatically approved upon application.

Theres no residence addr in the wp.

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Quote

• Exceptions to work include:

− Participating in conferences and seminars

− Visiting exhibitions or trade fairs

− Visiting business sites or attending business meetings

− Attending special or academic lectures

− Attending lectures or seminars on technical training

− Purchasing activities at trade fairs

Surely they mean "attending lectures" and NOT "giving lectures".  So teaching is out of the equation, I supposed.

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1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

 

I'm sure it won't be long before we are seeing stories of people getting busted by Immigration for violating the "new" rules because different people in different areas will have a different interpretation of what those rules actually are.

This is probably the main reason the changes have been implemented 

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18 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

I have been in legal/HR in Thailand for 11 years and have learned not to trust any pronouncements or new regs until I hear from several MOL/BOI officials as to how they are being implemented.

Well I hope that when you hear from them you post here so we can all get the benefit!  ?

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Definition of “work” under the Working of Aliens Act, B.E. 2551 (2008) is very broad:

• “engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits”

 

So Im considered working if I paint my house,  dig my garden,  move my garbage bin,  tie my shoelaces 

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> Persons who enter Thailand to operate business

 

this needs clarification - if I am a director of the company, I do not need the work permit anymore to get a Non-B Visa? I'd love to get rid of that hassle.

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1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

 

 

I think I'll wait until it is announced by the Thais; the two extracts from the OP above even contradict themselves with one statement saying with a work permit the foreigner can work anywhere, for anyone and the second that work permit details don't need amending as long as the ex-pat works for the same employer.

 

I have big difficulties seeing 'Albert' the Brit coming to Thailand, issued a work permit for 'A' company as an IT Admin and then decides to work for 'B' company as say, a QA/QC Coordinator without having to change, or be issued with another WP. 

 

1. He would be working for a new employer, doing a completely different job, apparently allowed under the first extract above

 

2. He would be employed in a different position, with a new scope of work and by a different employer which contradicts the second extract above

It is permissible outside planet Thailand to moonlight.   Other countries just want the tax revenue.  Thailand's over controlling puts lives and the economy at risk.  During the Shinawatra era and the less xenophobic, nationalistic coup, these sorts of laws were not so fervently enforced.   Immigration could not care less about people's comings or goings, and it did not hurt the economy at all.   As for any contradiction, that will always be the case here, and to wait and see is always best to avoid "big misunderstands".  Pretty sure these new guidelines are NOT from the wet blankets running the country now, and came from the daring rescue in Chiang Mai

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Interesting....

I am cooking Italian and Mexican specialities on my own restaurant for many years now without any work permit......and my best customers are the local immigration officers.

 

 

Lol...two taco's in a brown envelope ... job done

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57 minutes ago, zib said:

Theres no residence addr in the wp.

Yes there is unless you have a digital WP.  That's why it is allowed to be used as proof of residence for things like opening bank account, drivers license, etc.  I've had to update mine once due to changing my place of residence.

 

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2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Or, if I get a work permit to do one thing (dive instructor for example) there's nothing stopping me from going anywhere in the country and working for someone else as an English teacher or an electrician or animal breeder (but I still couldn't get a job rolling cigarettes by hand dang it).

I'm pretty sure if you left your primary job for an extended period you would get fired snd have your WP revoked and thus would be working illegally at your other ventures.

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So I can simply go to the Work Permit office and apply for a work permit and get one without stating what I will be doing or for whom???

 

The document says “with or without an employer”

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As Mikebell says there is no mention of those of us expats who would love to volunteer with NGOs or in schools teaching English to Thais and whether we need work permits or ANY cards showing we're volunteers.... 

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1 hour ago, zib said:

Theres no residence addr in the wp.

It's at the back of the work permit.  You probably never have looked at your last page.  I've had to make applications to change residence addresses, so I know that this is a requirement.

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18 hours ago, hurni77 said:

„Changes to Work Permit Laws, Regulations & Enforcement

Emergency Decree on Foreigner’s Working Management No.2 B.E. 2561 (2018)

• Work Permit is not required for:

...

− Persons who enter Thailand to operate business or to make investment or who have knowledge, ability, or high skills, which would be beneficial to the development of the country“

 

And ... WHO DECIDES THIS? 

He is the same person you have to give a brown envelope.

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It worth not much again. It cannot solve the real problems of those who actually work in Thailand. I cannot help, but I have a feeling that Thailand supposes that everyone wants to work in Thailand with the intention to grab the positions from the Thais. Green cards are working in the USA why on Earth cannot be do something similar? Why should Thai officials fight with the misbelieve that "farangs" have bad behaviour and they have to be controlled very tight otherwise Thailand is lost?

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Civil engineering works and architecture now permitted.....very good news.

Seems someone has finally realised that the roads and drainage currently being built are usually very poor......and maybe we'll get away from the ugly Chinese influenced towers.

Foreign architects have designed some terrific buildings in Bangkok, but there also many new ugly structures going up with the mandatory gold dome on the top.

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