Despite all the hoo-haa,  I'm still hopeful that Trump will serve 2 terms..

 

One term in office and one term in prison...  ?

8 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

.  If I was this anonymous insider, I'd know that there would be nothing to gain and a lot to lose by coming out against Trump.  But it is astonishing and unprecedented that someone would come out with this "reassurance" for the American people that insiders are trying to save America from Trump. 

There really is a Constitutional crisis as we speak and the subject of it is-What are we going to do about Donald Trump- POTUS?   

 

In a sense- the unnamed person inside the White House- has become the new 'Deep Throat' from the Watergate era and I have  to believe he/she will continue to feed info to the media. Let's remember- that what finally brought President Nixon down was his own party turning against him and telling him in no uncertain terms- resign or be impeached.  Nixon committed a crime- we are not yet there with Trump

 

However, I still believe it is a danger to our Democracy and Constitution to have unelcted officials  making and carrying out policy that THEY believe is correct.  I would hope that someone within the WH is meeting with certain Senators and keeping them briefed on what is going on and what crazy policies Trump wants to follow and they have an input into decisions.

 

I don't think the 25th Amendment would work in this case as Trump is not physically ill or insane- although his mental stability is questionable.  Removing a President in this manner can be viewed by Trump;s supporters as the final straw that will unleash  blowback that America is not prepared for Trump is no fool- he knows how to fight back and hard.and I would expect violence. The only way to get Trump out is to make sure there is no wiggle room and get him cornered with no way out.

 

The only way forward is to let the Mueller investigation continue and at some point Mueller will recommend indictments that will possibly include Trump; his son in law and daughter; his son and possibly other's . In addition- I am confident the House will go Democrat and possibly the Senate.  Impeachment will gain traction and possibly be voted on.  At that point- even some Republicans will start to turn on him as they will want to save  their jobs for the next election.   A team of Repubs will go to Trump and gvie him 2 choices- Resign while still President or be impeached and convicted.  Pence becomes President and pardons everyone and  the 2020 Presidential election moves forward without the specter of Trump.

Just as a side note, I guess it's a bit reassuring that there's possibly some sane adults in the White House trying to curtail Trump's wildest excesses and tirades and wrong-headed moves.

 

But when I think about it....

 

--they didn't save us from Trump and Putin in Moscow.

--they didn't save us from the Admin's horrible policy re immigrant children.

--they didn't save us from Trump wrongly revoking former officials' security clearances.

--they haven't saved us from Trump doing his best to obstruct justice in the Mueller investigation.

--they haven't much contained all the damage Trump has inflicted on the relations between the U.S. and its longstanding allies and related entities like NATO.

--they didn't save us from Trump falsely declaring the NK nuclear threat was over and Kim is a great leader.

 

and on and on and on.  Could things have been worse?  Yes, I'm sure they well could have. Have the adults in the room managed to make Trump a tolerable president. Absolutely NOT! It's more akin to trying to put a band-aid on someone who's been hit by a mortar round.

 

Edited September 6, 20187 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

38 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

However, I still believe it is a danger to our Democracy and Constitution to have unelcted officials  making and carrying out policy that THEY believe is correct.  I would hope that someone within the WH is meeting with certain Senators and keeping them briefed on what is going on and what crazy policies Trump wants to follow and they have an input into decisions.

I think you and I are largely on the same side.  But where we differ might be your opinions regarding "unelected officials."  To be honest, I trust these career civil servants much more than these "elected officials" and their appointees.  Elected officials are politicians.  Unelected officials are every day Americans at the CIA, DOD, FBI, IRS, EPA, DHS, etc.  They understand their job better than the politicians who are just looking to get reelected.  Anyways, I have no idea if this insider person is a political appointee or a career civil servant.  If he/she supports Trump's agenda, then most likely an appointee.  But I appreciate that this person is looking out for America's interest...or so it appears.     

1 hour ago, bobbin said:

Despite all the hoo-haa,  I'm still hopeful that Trump will serve 2 terms..

 

One term in office and one term in prison...  ?

May the former be short and the latter be long.

There are a few adults in the white house to mind the mad baby. But I think they will probably all be fired especially after the midterms.

 

Then what?

 

I was taught WELL growing up that one man can make a big difference in changing the world for the better.

 

But sometimes its one man doing a lot of damage.

 

That's "trump"

 

"Liar? Check. Ignorant and uninterested in issues? Check. Unconcerned with the consequences of his destructive actions on the country he serves? Check. Obsessed with his media image? Check. Crude, crass, undignified, vindictive, impulsive, juvenile and racially inflammatory? Check, check, check, check, check, check and check."

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/woodwards-fear-is-damning-depressing--and-heartening/2018/09/05/0a7ee502-b149-11e8-aed9-001309990777_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Just as a side note, I guess it's a bit reassuring that there's possibly some sane adults in the White House trying to curtail Trump's wildest excesses and tirades and wrong-headed moves.

 

But when I think about it....

 

--they didn't save us from Trump and Putin in Moscow.

--they didn't save us from the Admin's horrible policy re immigrant children.

--they didn't save us from Trump wrongly revoking former officials' security clearances.

--they haven't saved us from Trump doing his best to obstruct justice in the Mueller investigation.

--they haven't much contained all the damage Trump has inflicted on the relations between the U.S. and its longstanding allies and related entities like NATO.

--they didn't save us from Trump falsely declaring the NK nuclear threat was over and Kim is a great leader.

 

and on and on and on.  Could things have been worse?  Yes, I'm sure they well could have. Have the adults in the room managed to make Trump a tolerable president. Absolutely NOT! It's more akin to trying to put a band-aid on someone who's been hit by a mortar round.

 

You're right. From what I understand those civil servants actually did not secretly impose their policies. They rather tried to prevent damages resulting from spontaneous behaviour from Trump. When it is explained, for example, that they hid a document terminating the trade deal with South Korea, they just prevented an impetuous decision that Trump himself would probably have regretted. If he really wanted it, he would have done it later. On the other hand, if he just "forgot" that he wanted to make this decision, that's really frightening. ?

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

There really is a Constitutional crisis as we speak and the subject of it is-What are we going to do about Donald Trump- POTUS?   

 

In a sense- the unnamed person inside the White House- has become the new 'Deep Throat' from the Watergate era and I have  to believe he/she will continue to feed info to the media. Let's remember- that what finally brought President Nixon down was his own party turning against him and telling him in no uncertain terms- resign or be impeached.  Nixon committed a crime- we are not yet there with Trump

 

However, I still believe it is a danger to our Democracy and Constitution to have unelcted officials  making and carrying out policy that THEY believe is correct.  I would hope that someone within the WH is meeting with certain Senators and keeping them briefed on what is going on and what crazy policies Trump wants to follow and they have an input into decisions.

 

I don't think the 25th Amendment would work in this case as Trump is not physically ill or insane- although his mental stability is questionable.  Removing a President in this manner can be viewed by Trump;s supporters as the final straw that will unleash  blowback that America is not prepared for Trump is no fool- he knows how to fight back and hard.and I would expect violence. The only way to get Trump out is to make sure there is no wiggle room and get him cornered with no way out.

 

The only way forward is to let the Mueller investigation continue and at some point Mueller will recommend indictments that will possibly include Trump; his son in law and daughter; his son and possibly other's . In addition- I am confident the House will go Democrat and possibly the Senate.  Impeachment will gain traction and possibly be voted on.  At that point- even some Republicans will start to turn on him as they will want to save  their jobs for the next election.   A team of Repubs will go to Trump and gvie him 2 choices- Resign while still President or be impeached and convicted.  Pence becomes President and pardons everyone and  the 2020 Presidential election moves forward without the specter of Trump.

We’ve known since Nuremberg following orders is no defence against the crimes you commit following those orders.

 

Very clearly what the Op-Ed is telling us is people within the White House are very aware that Trump is not fit for office, that there are calls to enact the 25th Amendment but that those calls are going unanswered.

 

Moreover, we have evidence, Sally Yates et al, that following procedures and reporting your concerns openly results in you getting fired.

 

The crimes against the US constitution, US democracy and US security are being committed by Trump aided and abetted by the Republicans in both houses.

 

Trump is clearly not fit for office, he and his family clearly have their hands in the national coffers and Trump is clearly acting to interfere with the investigation into his crimes.

 

Don’t mistake people trying to fight that as a threat to the US democracy- it is everything but that.

6 minutes ago, candide said:

You're right. From what I understand those civil servants actually did not secretly impose their policies. They rather tried to prevent damages resulting from spontaneous behaviour from Trump. When it is explained, for example, that they hid a document terminating the trade deal with South Korea, they just prevented an impetuous decision that Trump himself would probably have regretted. If he really wanted it, he would have done it later. On the other hand, if he just "forgot" that he wanted to make this decision, that's really frightening. ?

 

There have been quite a few publicly reported examples in past months where those around Trump have, to use the term that's been used, "slow walked" various of his policies /  pronouncements.

 

Kicking out transgender soldiers from the military was one of those, where the DoD at first didn't do much, then studied, and then finally came back with what, if I recall correctly, is a much less broad policy.

 

The expelling of Russian diplomats/spies after the Skripal poisonings was another. When aides came to him with the proposed list/number in the dozens, he supposedly asked how many our allies were doing, and was told a similar number to the U.S. number. But Trump thought he was being told the number other INDIVIDUAL countries were expelling, whereas the number they gave him was the TOTAL number from other countries. So the U.S. ended up expelling about the same number as all other countries combined. When Trump found out later what he'd done, he was supposedly furious.

 

The problem -- I'm not sure whether it's a blessing or a curse -- is that Trump does a lot of his pronouncements by Twitter. Now, a tweet is not a presidential order. But, if Trump calls the Secret Service director or Attorney General or FBI director into his office and gives them a clear, unequivocal direct order, there's not a lot of wiggle room, and that's where things could get very sticky. Apparently fortunately for everyone involved, he's apparently more into tweeting than he is to giving direct presidential orders.

 

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here is the op-ed:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html
 

 

Here is it's response --

 

Hmm,..personally I think treason against the president, but Treason against the American People would be much worse !!!. Doing the right thing at this level is always controversial !

Maybe the anonymous writer is Sarah Jeong. Google it.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.
 

5 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Something I learned in Catholic school, and then later in life as I traveled the world and visited lots of other countries with varying religions: anybody who makes a big display of religious devoutness a major feature in his/her personality is covering something up.  From Pence's behavior I guess maybe something extreme, like a snuff film collection.

 

Mike Pence and his devoted assistant... 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

"Liar? Check. Ignorant and uninterested in issues? Check. Unconcerned with the consequences of his destructive actions on the country he serves? Check. Obsessed with his media image? Check. Crude, crass, undignified, vindictive, impulsive, juvenile and racially inflammatory? Check, check, check, check, check, check and check."

Interestingly, all traits of a psychopath.

Trump will be fine , he has the unswerving support of his sad emoji army.

29 minutes ago, alocacoc said:

Maybe the anonymous writer is the racist pig NYT just hired? With racist pig I mean Sarah Jeong. Google it.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.
 

Why bring her up? Nothing to do with the Trump administration, and from where did you learn she is a racist pig?

Why bring her up? Nothing to do with the Trump administration, and from where did you learn she is a racist pig?

Read her Tweets. Nasty. Unbelievable.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

Hmm,..personally I think treason against the president, but Treason against the American People would be much worse !!!. Doing the right thing at this level is always controversial !

There is no such thing as treason against the president in the American system. Duh. Treason is only about working with foreign enemies against the USA.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

When I first read the Op-Ed, I thought someone in the White House but the more I think of it someone who is Senior but not in the White House- like in the FBI; CIA; National Intelligence or even Defense. They  sure hit the nail on the head when describing Trump's behavior.

 

11 hours ago, Proboscis said:

But while Clown Trump is keeping the masses entertained, a large number of changes are being made to the institutions of the country, including the rights of citizens, the powers of corporations and the lack of investment in infrastructure that will have to be paid sometime when the bridges fail and the highways become impassible or have to have very low speed limits because of surface conditions.

 

This has already been happening before Trump. Trump has sped it up!

 

The guy is a terrible and unfortunate pick for president. By humanistic and leadership standards.  However, he really suckered Evangelicals and the "white middle class" into his nationalistic Trump Train!

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no such thing as treason against the president in the American system. Duh. Treason is only about working with foreign enemies against the USA.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Ah, you mean like selling the American people out to Putin.

9 minutes ago, alocacoc said:

Read her Tweets. Nasty. Unbelievable.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.
 

I don't do Twitter.

Again, why bring her up except as a deflection? Unless you want to claim she is the senior WH official who wrote to the NYT.

I don't do Twitter.
Again, why bring her up except as a deflection? Unless you want to claim she is the senior WH official who wrote to the NYT.

Well, but then don't complain when you're uninformed. BTW, you don't have to use Twitter to find her Tweets. They are covered all over the place.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

21 minutes ago, alocacoc said:

Well, but then don't complain when you're uninformed.

Why not? You man-child base supporters complain all the time and you're proudly uninformed.

Why not? You man-child base supporters complain all the time and you're proudly uninformed.

Hmm, you seem to be emotional overwhelmed. Calm down. Take it easy.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

30 minutes ago, alocacoc said:

Well, but then don't complain when you're uninformed. BTW, you don't have to use Twitter to find her Tweets. They are covered all over the place.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.
 

Again, what is the connection between her and a WH staffer writing to NYT?

So far you have deflected, not answered.

Again, what is the connection between her and a WH staffer writing to NYT?
So far you have deflected, not answered.

Why should I answer when you even not willing to do a quick Google search? I'm not the guy who puke out links. Do your own research if you're interested.

Sent from a so called Smartphone using an App.

The resistance is getting desperate with the flailing coup since election.

Trump will declassify and release the fraudulent fisa application and lockem up.

Enjoy the show? 

The failing NewYork Times effect on man??

3 hours ago, Becker said:

May the former be short and the latter be long.

Long is good but short (like his fingers) is okay too. Even a short stint in an orange jump suit would royally knock him and his clan off their artificial, gold-plated high horse.

may be not treason just yet but

se·di·tion

səˈdiSH(ə)n/

noun

1. conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

   synonyms:

   rabble-rousing, incitement to rebel, subversion, troublemaking, provocation;

NYT has become a pathetic rag.