Juncker to hold firm on Brexit terms, offer close partnership - official

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

You clearly know nothing about trying to unravel decades of the UK being a member of the EU without committing economic suicide. It is virtually impossible in today's world without ruining the UK economy and devaluing the pound. And that's just for starters. Theresa May will go down in history as the PM who ruined Britain to respect the 'will of the people'.

 

Once Corbyn is removed, I fully expect the Labour party to win the next election and rejoin the EU - or at least the Customs Union, which will resolve the most critical of the current economic issues. 

A Customs Union membership would still mean a huge amount more of paperwork for supply lines. And tariffs would still be imposed. Definitely not good for integrated manufacturing. Maybe not even possible.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

A Customs Union membership would still mean a huge amount more of paperwork for supply lines. And tariffs would still be imposed. Definitely not good for integrated manufacturing. Maybe not even possible.

If that cannot be sorted out, well, there you are without any other option but to jump off the cliff. See you next life. 

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Yes- Sweden is a member of the EU but not of the money union. 

So, if you knew Sweden was not a member of the monetary union, why did you bring it up in the first place? In that respect, it's exactly like the UK.

[Thaidream]

15 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Wow you managed to invoke WW 1, WW2 and the British Empire. These are relevant how to Brexit?

Tell us, since you seem so well informed about the particulars, what effect do you think Brexit will have on the supply chains for manufacturing facilities in the UK?

My purpose of invoking History is to remind you that the British people have survived and prospered during events that were life threatening and life changing.  The British are the people who never surrender; keep a stiff upper lip and always excel.

 

I certainly am not as equipped to tell a UK citizen the ins and outs of politics in their country but as a student of history- I just can't imagine the Uk going under because of Brexit.

 

Just as n America- the UK has been threatened by  low cost labor- America getting it from Central America and the UK from an expanded EU that has taken on Eastern Europe who will work for half of what a Uk citizen will work for.  The manufacturing sector has been threatened for years and if the UK negotiates properly- you won't have the Eastern Europeans and the lesser economies of the EU allowed to float into the UK and take jobs away from citizens.

 

At the same time as manufacturing industries start to antiquate-robotics will move in and all these jobs will eventually go away. The key is to  make sure the population is highly educated and the job switch is to hi tech and banking/insurance. In my opinion- one of the  problems with the EU has been unbridled and nonvetted Immigration and allowing a large number of Middle East Immigrants into the UK.   The backlash was evident and many  citizens of England proper saw a lessening of English culture and values.  There are virtual no go zones in London in which native born English do not feel safe.

 

Brexit happened for a reason- just like Donald Trump happened for a reason.  The UK survived before  the EU and will survive after and I am guessing will also prosper.

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

My purpose of invoking History is to remind you that the British people have survived and prospered during events that were life threatening and life changing.  The British are the people who never surrender; keep a stiff upper lip and always excel.

 

I certainly am not as equipped to tell a UK citizen the ins and outs of politics in their country but as a student of history- I just can't imagine the Uk going under because of Brexit.

 

Just as n America- the UK has been threatened by  low cost labor- America getting it from Central America and the UK from an expanded EU that has taken on Eastern Europe who will work for half of what a Uk citizen will work for.  The manufacturing sector has been threatened for years and if the UK negotiates properly- you won't have the Eastern Europeans and the lesser economies of the EU allowed to float into the UK and take jobs away from citizens.

 

At the same time as manufacturing industries start to antiquate-robotics will move in and all these jobs will eventually go away. The key is to  make sure the population is highly educated and the job switch is to hi tech and banking/insurance. In my opinion- one of the  problems with the EU has been unbridled and nonvetted Immigration and allowing a large number of Middle East Immigrants into the UK.   The backlash was evident and many  citizens of England proper saw a lessening of English culture and values.  There are virtual no go zones in London in which native born English do not feel safe.

 

Brexit happened for a reason- just like Donald Trump happened for a reason.  The UK survived before  the EU and will survive after and I am guessing will also prosper.

 

 

 

Thanks for the sentimental claptrap about the British people. I guess in the absence of facts that sort of sentimentality will have to do.

It's  you don't have a clue about integrated and fictionalizes supply chains and how crucial they are to manufacturing in the UK.

So the citizens of the UK will end up paying a lot more for the goods that are manufactured there which means they'll have less money to spend elsewhere.

And as for British business prowess

"British businesses with foreign owners are up to three-times as productive as those with only UK investors, official figures have revealed.

In the services sector, companies with foreign investors that control 10pc or more of shares or votes are roaring ahead of rivals, the Office for National Statistics found."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/23/foreign-owned-firms-three-times-productive-uk-owned-rivals/

[strikingsunset]

My purpose of invoking History is to remind you that the British people have survived and prospered during events that were life threatening and life changing.  The British are the people who never surrender; keep a stiff upper lip and always excel.
 
I certainly am not as equipped to tell a UK citizen the ins and outs of politics in their country but as a student of history- I just can't imagine the Uk going under because of Brexit.
 
Just as n America- the UK has been threatened by  low cost labor- America getting it from Central America and the UK from an expanded EU that has taken on Eastern Europe who will work for half of what a Uk citizen will work for.  The manufacturing sector has been threatened for years and if the UK negotiates properly- you won't have the Eastern Europeans and the lesser economies of the EU allowed to float into the UK and take jobs away from citizens.
 
At the same time as manufacturing industries start to antiquate-robotics will move in and all these jobs will eventually go away. The key is to  make sure the population is highly educated and the job switch is to hi tech and banking/insurance. In my opinion- one of the  problems with the EU has been unbridled and nonvetted Immigration and allowing a large number of Middle East Immigrants into the UK.   The backlash was evident and many  citizens of England proper saw a lessening of English culture and values.  There are virtual no go zones in London in which native born English do not feel safe.
 
Brexit happened for a reason- just like Donald Trump happened for a reason.  The UK survived before  the EU and will survive after and I am guessing will also prosper.
 
 
 

and your post is spot on - i totally agree - in 10 years time the UK will be booming and my guess is the other 27 or so countries will be collectively - down the tubes - rushing to the printing presses


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

and your post is spot on - i totally agree - in 10 years time the UK will be booming and my guess is the other 27 or so countries will be collectively - down the tubes - rushing to the printing presses


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sure with restricted access to a market that is huge and it's closest neighbor because of .....the Em;pire, WW1, and WW2!

[puck2]

15 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

and your post is spot on - i totally agree - in 10 years time the UK will be booming and my guess is the other 27 or so countries will be collectively - down the tubes - rushing to the printing presses


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

It seems you have contacted a soothsayer. How much did you have to pay for his forecast?

 

[Bigz]

On 9/13/2018 at 7:09 PM, Thaidream said:

Then why the problem on a trade agreement and border movement?

 

Before the EU even existed- the Common Market facilitated trade within Europe and border checks were minimum. At the very least the EU can agree to the situation as it existed pre EU.  Switzerland and Sweden work fine with the EU. Why ca't the UK- it's not rocket science. I would posture the EU is pissed off they will not get billions of pounds to support what  the UK voters figured out.  Brittain  was being taken for a ride- that's why they voted for the exit.

On 9/13/2018 at 7:09 PM, Thaidream said:

 

 

Sweden is a full member of the EU...

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 9/12/2018 at 3:57 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

You are right. There are many people who don’t deserve it. The majority of people actually. I just love to see idiots get what they deserve. But I guess I should control my Schadenfreude. 

It was to be expected that GROUSE liked your post, as you display the same arrogance and unwarranted superiority over those who voted to leave the EU as he does in the majority of his posts.

[My Thai Life]

On 9/13/2018 at 8:38 PM, bristolboy said:

"British businesses with foreign owners are up to three-times as productive as those with only UK investors, official figures have revealed.

Thanks for the interesting link. But you are citing a causal relationship between foreign ownership and productivity which is not supported by the very article that you link to. Here are a couple of relevant quotes:

 

“The ONS said it cannot tell from this data whether the companies are more productive because they have foreign owners, or whether it is simply that foreign investors buy into businesses that are already highly productive.”

 

“Ian Stewart, chief executive at Deloitte, believes part of the reason is that "footloose capital" globally searches for the highest returns, which may mean it finds the most productive companies.”

 

[My Thai Life]

On 9/13/2018 at 8:17 PM, bristolboy said:

So, if you knew Sweden was not a member of the monetary union, why did you bring it up in the first place?

I think Thaidream may have been referring to the border issue. The Sweden-Norway border seems to work ok, and Norway is outside of the CU.

 

So, while the UK-Irish border issue is not exactly the same as the Sweden-Norway boder issue, there is enough of a similarity to make a valid comparison. 

 

But the EU have turned the UK-Irish border into a political football, and their proposal demonstrates an appalling indifference to sovereignty and could never have been accepted. They knew this would be the case.

 

Many people even seem to believe that Ireland is in Schengen! (I'm not suggesting you do.)

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by My Thai Life

[welovesundaysatspace]

23 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

But the EU have turned the UK-Irish border into a political

football

Nonsense. 

23 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

and their proposal demonstrates an appalling indifference to sovereignty and could never have been accepted.

The U.K. doesn’t have to accept it. No deal then. Easy. 

 

[My Thai Life]

The UK will not accept a "border" in the Irish Sea, and it's ludicrous that the EU ever suggested it. It's pure politicking.

 

And the UK's rejection of the EU's suggestion of a border in the Irish Sea does not lead automatically to a "no deal". Increasingly it looks like a free-trade deal is the most likely outcome, as suggested by Barnier, Tusk, Rees-Mogg,  etc. 

 

Anglo-Irish trade can be dealt with comparatively easily: there are already controls on cross-border trade (eg VAT) that do not take place at the physical border. These can be augmented during the transition period. Moreover, at the time of exit all regulations will be completely aligned; this seems to have been forgotten in all the mud-slinging. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

The UK will not accept a "border" in the Irish Sea, and it's ludicrous that the EU ever suggested it. It's pure politicking.

 

And the UK's rejection of the EU's suggestion of a border in the Irish Sea does not lead automatically to a "no deal". 

Hard border then. Up to you. 

[My Thai Life]

54 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Hard border then. Up to you. 

I'm not advocating a hard border, far from it, despite your selective quoting. And my money's on there not being a hard border, whatever the framework agreement.

 

When you look at the reality of trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland, both in terms of the type of trade and its volume, and consider that there is already an  invisible administrative trade border (eg VAT), and consider that Ireland is not in Schengen (contrary to what many seem to believe), and consider that non-tariff barriers (eg standards) will be 100% equivalent on exit day, it's apparent that this issue has become the tail wagging the dog. Some combination of what Economists for Free Trade have proposed, plus lessons from Sweden-Norway, plus rules of origin... plus plus plus... will be sufficient.

 

But all of this depends on the framework approach, which has still not been agreed. It's this which needs to be agreed before exit day, not the detailed trade agreement, whether it be free trade or something else.

[bristolboy]

24 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I'm not advocating a hard border, far from it, despite your selective quoting. And my money's on there not being a hard border, whatever the framework agreement.

 

When you look at the reality of trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland, both in terms of the type of trade and its volume, and consider that there is already an  invisible administrative trade border (eg VAT), and consider that Ireland is not in Schengen (contrary to what many seem to believe), and consider that non-tariff barriers (eg standards) will be 100% equivalent on exit day, it's apparent that this issue has become the tail wagging the dog. Some combination of what Economists for Free Trade have proposed, plus lessons from Sweden-Norway, plus rules of origin... plus plus plus... will be sufficient.

 

But all of this depends on the framework approach, which has still not been agreed. It's this which needs to be agreed before exit day, not the detailed trade agreement, whether it be free trade or something else.

Lessons from Sweden-Norway? Are you aware the Norway is a member of the EEA and EFTA? That is is member of the Schengen Area and allows the free movement of people? What lessons do you think could be learned from that?

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I'm not advocating a hard border, far from it, despite your selective quoting. And my money's on there not being a hard border, whatever the framework agreement.

 

When you look at the reality of trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland, both in terms of the type of trade and its volume, and consider that there is already an  invisible administrative trade border (eg VAT), and consider that Ireland is not in Schengen (contrary to what many seem to believe), and consider that non-tariff barriers (eg standards) will be 100% equivalent on exit day, it's apparent that this issue has become the tail wagging the dog. Some combination of what Economists for Free Trade have proposed, plus lessons from Sweden-Norway, plus rules of origin... plus plus plus... will be sufficient.

 

But all of this depends on the framework approach, which has still not been agreed. It's this which needs to be agreed before exit day, not the detailed trade agreement, whether it be free trade or something else.

You should have a word with Rees-Mogg and Alexander Boris (man of the people) de Pfeffel Johnson. They claim their struggles with this very problem are what's preventing them presenting their very  marvellous Plan B.

 

Don't bother sharing this with the PM, her crack team are already on it.

 

'The easiest deal in human history!'

[My Thai Life]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Lessons from Sweden-Norway? Are you aware the Norway is a member of the EEA and EFTA? That is is member of the Schengen Area and allows the free movement of people? What lessons do you think could be learned from that?

Yes I am. And had you read my post fully you would see that I have already referred to the difference.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Yes I am. And had you read my post fully you would see that I have already referred to the difference.

Okay about the Schengen Area. But what about the Norway Sweden border has anything to do with Ireland-Northern Ireland situation?

[My Thai Life]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Okay about the Schengen Area. But what about the Norway Sweden border has anything to do with Ireland-Northern Ireland situation?

You seem to be looking for 100% equivalence. There isn't any 100% equivalence anywhere in the world with the UK/NI border issue. I can see  a comparison between Sweden-Norway border, you can't. OK, that's something else we will have to differ about.

 

 

[overherebc]

On 9/13/2018 at 7:42 PM, Thaidream said:

A disaster?  Hardly- the UK  has the 5th largest economy in the World;  a huge trading base with the World; a vital military and one of the saviors of Europe during 2 World Wars.  Not to mention a population that excels academically and a history that dates back thousands of years.  There was a time that the sun never set on the British Empire and History has shown that many countries were better off under the Empire.

 

The UK survived and did well without the EU and will do well without it.  You people need to start supporting your countries decision and stop fighting the inevitable. The UK is not a member of the EU after March 2019.  I wonder if some of the naysayers are proper Englishmen.

Let's be PC and call them British or maybe Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland don't exist?????

Maybe a proper englishman wears a bowler hat and supports Manchester United?

Edited September 15, 2018 by overherebc