Thailand/USA Will questions

[dddave]

I hadn't had enough assets my last ten years in Thailand to be much concerned about a will but as a result of an inheritance, now need to get one written.

I live in Thailand full time. I am unmarried, no kids.  I do have some US resident nieces & nephews who I will include in my will but nobody else in the US.  Most of what I leave will be to several individuals resident in and citizens of Thailand.

I have US bank accounts which receive my Social Security and military pension.  My investment account which holds the bulk of my assets is also US based.

 

I don't want to leave a complicated mess for my executor but I am unsure about how to go about setting things up so the money  goes to the people in Thailand I want it to go to.  Do I appoint an executor in the US and a co-executor in Thailand?  

 

I'm sure others on this forum have faced a similar situation; assets in the home country, beneficiaries in Thailand.  How did you handle it?

 

[mogandave]

Good question. If the bulk of your estate is in the US, it might make sense to get with a US attorney.

I would write something up outline what I wanted to do and try to get something going via email.

Do you not trust any of your nieces or nephews to have them be the executor?

[Langsuan Man]

First of all which US state are we talking about ?   Each state has different inheritance laws and requirements for a Last Will and Testament 

 

The easiest way, if you are  talking about "financial assets" is to just designate the "heirs" as joint tenants with rights of survivorship which can probably be done online with your broker.  All you would need would be the social security numbers.  Which of course precludes Thai heirs

 

You would still need a very simple Will to designate an executor but the distribution of your estate would be quick and easy since the executor would only have to submit death certificate to your financial institutions and they would do the rest without probate , depending upon the State

[mogandave]

No point in making them joint tenants, just name them as beneficiaries, and what percentage each gets.

Or, open multiple accounts and name a single beneficiary for each account.

Big benefit would be that (I think) you can change the beneficiary as long as you own the account. Once there is a joint tenant (I think) the tenant must agree to be taken off the account.

[ballbreaker]

I went through slightly different situation as executor when Thai wife died while we still had joint accounts in the US.  In my case probate was not required in US perhaps because my name was on  accounts or because her Thai will mentioned accounts and probate was done in Thailand.  Both institutions required release certificate from IRS before any action on their part.

 

To obtain certificates as executor I had to file estate tax return which was difficult to complete.  Form instruction said it would take IRS 6-9 month to process return.  Mine took 8 months from time I mailed till I received a certificate for each institution.

 

You situation is different so check with institutions to explain your situation and ask what they require to release accounts.  Also check to see which IRS tax forms are required for deceased US citizen living abroad.  Your executor will need to file your final tax return.  You can't escape the IRS even when you die.

 

[dddave]

3 hours ago, ballbreaker said:

You situation is different so check with institutions to explain your situation and ask what they require to release accounts.  Also check to see which IRS tax forms are required for deceased US citizen living abroad.  Your executor will need to file your final tax return.  You can't escape the IRS even when you die

Stuff I never even considered.  Really useful information that certainly opened my eyes.  Thanks

 

Do you not trust any of your nieces or nephews to have them be the executor?

There was some discord between them when their dad died regarding who got what.  Me picking one over the others as my executor could revive the conflict. Better left alone.

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by dddave

[chaz2]

For bank accounts, brokerage accounts and IRA accounts simply declare a designated beneficiary, also known as ‘Transfer on Death’ (TOD) in the securities industry or ‘Payable On Death’ (POD) in the banking industry.  I set this up with Schwab by simply mailing a form to them that I downloaded from their website.  Meaning that on your death those accounts will pass directly to the person or persons you name as your designated beneficiary regardless of any will and with no probate.  Separate forms are required for Brokerage + Checking Acct / Savings Acct / IRA Acct

 

Check it out with your bank and brokerage.  My designated beneficiary is my wife who is Thai and living in Thailand.  The beneficiary will need a USA Social Security number or an ITIN = ‘Individual Taxpayer Identification Number’ for any funds to pass to them - also required, i believe, if passing to them by way of a will.  For my wife it was easy to obtain as I wanted to file IRS jointly, claiming “US residence only for tax purposes” altho she is not and has never been a USA resident.  There are other provisions to obtain an ITIN for persons who need it for USA inheritance purposes or for income derived in the US that income tax will need to be paid on.  Somtimes it can take 6 months to obtain.

 

I have also already filled in all the forms she will need to submit after my death and typed a letter to the USA Embassy, Bangkok, which she can use for requesting death certificates.  They will give 20 copies for free and she will probably need almost that many to clear all the notification and inheritance hurdles.

[dddave]

10 hours ago, chaz2 said:

For bank accounts, brokerage accounts and IRA accounts simply declare a designated beneficiary, also known as ‘Transfer on Death’ (TOD) in the securities industry or ‘Payable On Death’ (POD) in the banking industry.  I set this up with Schwab by simply mailing a form to them that I downloaded from their website.  Meaning that on your death those accounts will pass directly to the person or persons you name as your designated beneficiary regardless of any will and with no probate.  Separate forms are required for Brokerage + Checking Acct / Savings Acct / IRA Acct

 

Check it out with your bank and brokerage.  My designated beneficiary is my wife who is Thai and living in Thailand.  The beneficiary will need a USA Social Security number or an ITIN = ‘Individual Taxpayer Identification Number’ for any funds to pass to them - also required, i believe, if passing to them by way of a will.  For my wife it was easy to obtain as I wanted to file IRS jointly, claiming “US residence only for tax purposes” altho she is not and has never been a USA resident.  There are other provisions to obtain an ITIN for persons who need it for USA inheritance purposes or for income derived in the US that income tax will need to be paid on.  Somtimes it can take 6 months to obtain.

 

I have also already filled in all the forms she will need to submit after my death and typed a letter to the USA Embassy, Bangkok, which she can use for requesting death certificates.  They will give 20 copies for free and she will probably need almost that many to clear all the notification and inheritance hurdles.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write and post this information which is incredibly helpful.  

I have learned more reading your post than from consultations with two remarkably uninformed lawyers I have spoken to so far.

I have an appointment with my adviser at Schwab in a few days and having your information in hand will make it much easier for me to know what to ask.

Again, sincere thanks.

Edited October 10, 2018 by dddave

[chaz2]

There is more info pertaining to this in a thread that I started, “Looking for IRS help for surviving Thai wife”  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1023869-looking-for-irs-help-for-surviving-thai-wife/  Also in last page of that one there is a link to “What to do when an expat dies in Thailand” with lots of suggestions to peruse.   Maybe should add that I did not get any info about USA tax help

 

And need to say that the info I submitted there applies to me = USA Resident using USA address on my IRS & Schwab & Social Security accts.  So check further if your situation is different.  But the way I understand it, using a foreign address makes a person eligible only for a Schwab One International Acct.  Not Schwab One + checking + debit card that residents of USA enjoy.

 

A bit lifted from that thread - For anyone who doesn’t already know about Schwab’s bank accounts and debit card, it is a good deal.  No fees at all even when outside the country and my debit card purchases have always had better exchange rates than at the banks in the countries where I made the purchases.  A point I have found about debit or credit card purchases is to be cautious that the merchant enters it in the local currency, not converted to the currency of the home country of the card.  Like here I want my debit card receipt to show Thai Baht, not converted to US dollars because if so I will get a terrible exchange rate

 

International wire transfers to a foreign bank are easy to do as Schwab has toll free numbers for Thailand and many other countries.  And also worth noting is that Schwab has quit charging the previous $25 flat fee for telegraphic transfer (TT) to Thai bank accounts.  You will only have the incoming fee at the Thai bank.  Funds should be transferred from Schwab Bank into brokerage before requesting the transfer because the transfer is done from the brokerage account, not the bank acct, so no questions like you get when moving more than $10,000 from/to banks.   Maybe the $10,000+ transfers are supposed to be reported anyway but I never have - hope that doesn’t cause repercussions later.

 

Schwab’s toll free number from Thailand is: 001 800 12 0664363    Toll free numbers for other countries can be found on the internet or from Schwab.  Again, don’t be talking about living here if you are using a USA address