43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Agree. In regard to Thanathorn:

 

- I understand he speaks good English.

 

- I understand he has a couple of masters degrees.

 

- Is his education outside of Thailand? IMHO this point could 'make the difference'. I doubt that even well educated Thais, who have never studies / lived 'outside' for at least a few years really understand what 'democracy' means in western terms. (But I'm not suggesting that 'western democracy' is perfect).

 

Some years back I often had lunch with a Thai professor who taught political science (he spoke perfect English but had never been outside of Thailand for more than short holidays and he had no education abroad).

 

He liked to talk about Thai politics, his understanding  of democracy was completely different than my understanding of democracy. His version is 'PM should be a rich man to give everybody cash etc.., and the voters should listen and do as they are told.' 

 

He just didn't listen to any discussion points about the electorate having rights, and responsibilities. His response; 'a waste of time and not needed'.

 

He brushed aside my summation of what democracy means (to me) and the pillars of building and maintaining democracy. Other western professors who shared the lunch room tried to share their thoughts with him, he didn't listen, at all.

 

This is why I wonder if Khun Thanathorn has had longer-term immersion in western democracy? Or is his version of democracy the same as we have already seen?

 

 

Great post (above).

As far as I know, Thanathorn carried out post-graduate studies abroad (in England, the USA and Switzerland?) and so has been exposed to Western notions of democracy. I don't get the impression that he is a 'Me Me - only obey Me' type of guy. I think he is pretty enlightened (politically speaking, by Thai standards).

 

Edited September 16, 20187 yr by Eligius

I have instructed my GF and her family to pay you Sir. And l will also pay for them

Good luck

4 hours ago, hansnl said:

"Idealists", voted in for their political program, nearly always have a tendency to be encapsulated into the existing political culture.

Nearly all politicians go into politics for the power, the money or a combination of the two.

Not him

8 hours ago, Thailand said:

At least a growing thorn in the side of the unelected.

 

You said it..."There is nothing more dangerous Than a thorn in the side of the unelected government"....    3 thorns actually........................

 

Edited September 16, 20187 yr by ratcatcher

33 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

 

You said it..."There is nothing more dangerous Than a thorn in the side of the unelected government"....    3 thorns actually........................

 

And they're coming to get you, Mr Master Pretender

Great message-I hope he stays a free man

I hope the Future Forward Party does well as it will signal that the writing is on the wall for the dinosaurs, especially if lots of younger people vote for it. The younger voters will struggle to identify with the old failure type of politics/personalities as time goes by and it would be in-keeping with the younger generation's desire for change for them to vote for someone they can relate to. However, the Junta have already marked this guy (and party) as a threat and will do what it can to discredit/exclude him from being involved as they know someone like him could be very dangerous to the status quo. As an aside, I've hear quite a few Thais say they will vote for FFP because they are tired of the same old BS from the others. Obviously they (FFP) won't get a majority to form a government, but a good showing would establish them as solid alternative to the rubbish that has gone on before and put the dinosaurs on notice.

6 hours ago, BEngBKK said:

100Bt

Taksin paied 500 + t-shirt for protesting in BKK

No he did not. That is a lie. But what is true is that somebody paid for the bullets which slaughtered the democracy demonstrators as well as killing  a nurse and an Italian journalist.

22 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

I hope the Future Forward Party does well as it will signal that the writing is on the wall for the dinosaurs, especially if lots of younger people vote for it. The younger voters will struggle to identify with the old failure type of politics/personalities as time goes by and it would be in-keeping with the younger generation's desire for change for them to vote for someone they can relate to. However, the Junta have already marked this guy (and party) as a threat and will do what it can to discredit/exclude him from being involved as they know someone like him could be very dangerous to the status quo. As an aside, I've hear quite a few Thais say they will vote for FFP because they are tired of the same old BS from the others. Obviously they (FFP) won't get a majority to form a government, but a good showing would establish them as solid alternative to the rubbish that has gone on before and put the dinosaurs on notice.

 

I hope you are correct about appealing to younger voters.

 

In fact I hope that might mean it would be a catalyst for younger folks to become more informed.

 

I know from my young uni students they are totally uninformed, partly because of laziness and partly because there's no point, the old guard didn't make any real attempt to make real contact with voters, especially young voters. Also because they well realized that people in government are there for one reason - their own pockets and nothing more. Virtually no messages whatever of interest to or for the benefit of the younger folks

 

Also because of old attitudes that the populace should just listen to the government (the boss so to speak) and just do as they are told.  

 

There's a long road ahead, I hope it's a new approach and much better than the past. 

 

 

Edited September 16, 20187 yr by scorecard

Sadly, us farangs are dreamers for a better democratic society benefiting the people. 

Edited September 16, 20187 yr by lvr181

44 minutes ago, The manic said:

No he did not. That is a lie. But what is true is that somebody paid for the bullets which slaughtered the democracy demonstrators as well as killing  a nurse and an Italian journalist.

 

So the money being handed out and ID cards being check, on several occasions, both still photos and video with sound shown on several media outlets just fell out of the sky, something like virgin birth. 

 

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

I hope you are correct about appealing to younger voters.

 

In fact I hope that might mean it would be a catalyst for younger folks to become more informed.

 

I know from my young uni students they are totally uninformed, partly because of laziness and partly because there's no point, the old guard didn't make any real attempt to make real contact with voters, especially young voters. Also because they well realized that people in government are there for one reason - their own pockets and nothing more. Virtually no messages whatever of interest to or for the benefit of the younger folks

 

Also because of old attitudes that the populace should just listen to the government (the boss so to speak) and just do as they are told.  

 

There's a long road ahead, I hope it's a new approach and much better than the past. 

 

 

Comments well constructed, Scorecard....

There does seem to be a subliminal ground swell that wishes to usher in a new era, regarding the general resistance of the Thai Old Guard. 

 

If not today, than tomorrow beckons. 

There is a deep sense of change in the air.

The societal mechanics will sort all out in due course.

1 minute ago, zzaa09 said:

Comments well constructed, Scorecard....

There does seem to be a subliminal ground swell that wishes to usher in a new era, regarding the general resistance of the Thai Old Guard. 

 

If not today, than tomorrow beckons. 

There is a deep sense of change in the air.

The societal mechanics will sort all out in due course.

 

Well said, and, as you suggest, it's not going to be a total new day in one step, however some good progress would be perhaps all that can expected.

 

 

19 minutes ago, scorecard said:

21 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Comments well constructed, Scorecard....

There does seem to be a subliminal ground swell that wishes to usher in a new era, regarding the general resistance of the Thai Old Guard. 

 

If not today, than tomorrow beckons. 

There is a deep sense of change in the air.

The societal mechanics will sort all out in due course.

 

Well said, and, as you suggest, it's not going to be a total new day in one step, however some good progress would be perhaps all that can expected.

My son and several of his friends are informed, keep an eye on whats going on and hope for changes. BUT, fear for their well being and freedom is still there. I rang him this morning, "heard about the 100b to join FFP". Yes, its doing the rounds on social media. "Signed up yet". No. "Why not". Worried we will be sharing posts that get us arrested with the computer crime act, detained, questioned and charged. 

They have already jailed people for similar, more are awaiting trial. Fear is a great deterrent. 

What's this called then, begpolling?

Keeping in mind, with all this speculative talk of change and whatnot, that the hardwired traditions and systems would have to be removed or revamped throughout the societal mindsets. 

 

This ain't gonna happen soon, regardless of the supposedly well intended suitors and company. 

 

Contemporary history is a great mirror for reality.

As even under the so called democratic elected civilian governments the influential traditional crowd - at all levels - still pulled the strings. 

 

 

The Thai systems are terribly Plutocratic by their very nature - from top to bottom. 

Incredibly difficult to overcome, unless a overwhelming social revolution is involved.

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Nice points. In regard to abhisit is that he can't easily communicate with other classes, because he can't escape his very long term etitist schooling in the UK, which surely has influenced the way he frames his discussion, somewhat verbose, and how he delivers it.

 

On the other hand, by accident I've heard him speak in smaller informal lengthy discussions about inequity in Thailand, both times korn was also present. Abhisits' word structure s and delivery were as my paragraph just above, however he seemed to be very genuine about his concerns re inequity and his plans to get things into a much better balance. Korn the same.  

 

 

I agree , imo Abhisit is a decent man who genuinely wants to improve the living standards and quality of working class Thais but his rise to the premiership was morally dubious to put it mildly, though it was not illegal. He was unfortunate in that his rise to the top of the Democrats coincided with Thaksin at the peak of his power. No one could compete against Thaksin's populist policies and his enormous wealth.

Abhisit, Korn, Thanathorn and Chaturon Chaisaeng are all 'modern' men who could easily be in the same party if ideals were the only criteria for membership.

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Agree, and my Thai son, who follows Thai politics closely is hoping this guy is a new style politician with the country and all Thais being his main concern, however my son has negative concerns that this guy has connections to pt and to thaksin. 

 

I hope this concern is wrong, we wait and see.

 

Who is pt?

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Agree. In regard to Thanathorn:

 

- I understand he speaks good English.

 

- I understand he has a couple of masters degrees.

 

- Is his education outside of Thailand? IMHO this point could 'make the difference'. I doubt that even well educated Thais, who have never studies / lived 'outside' for at least a few years really understand what 'democracy' means in western terms. (But I'm not suggesting that 'western democracy' is perfect).

 

Some years back I often had lunch with a Thai professor who taught political science (he spoke perfect English but had never been outside of Thailand for more than short holidays and he had no education abroad).

 

He liked to talk about Thai politics, his understanding  of democracy was completely different than my understanding of democracy. His version is 'PM should be a rich man to give everybody cash etc.., and the voters should listen and do as they are told.' 

 

He just didn't listen to any discussion points about the electorate having rights, and responsibilities. His response; 'a waste of time and not needed'.

 

He brushed aside my summation of what democracy means (to me) and the pillars of building and maintaining democracy. Other western professors who shared the lunch room tried to share their thoughts with him, he didn't listen, at all.

 

This is why I wonder if Khun Thanathorn has had longer-term immersion in western democracy? Or is his version of democracy the same as we have already seen?

 

 

In USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia democracy means democracy, so what you are saying in western terms does not include members of the European Union, which is undemocratic.

4 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Sadly, us farangs are dreamers for a better democratic society benefiting the people. 

Yes I which the end of EU and every Europe’s can live in a democratic country like USA, Canada , Australia and New Zealand.

 

we don’t need open borders, common currency, the parliament in Brussels and unelected bureaucrats.

 

we can still collaborate together, trade with each other etc etc without EU.

 

 

What really amaze me are those people from a EU country complain about democracy in Thailand.

 

 

clean your own back yard first.

1 hour ago, Puccini said:

Who is pt?

Pheu Thai, the political party with the largest number of MPs in the last election. Should be written as Pheua Thai though as Pheua has 2 syllables.

12 hours ago, bannork said:

Pheu Thai, the political party with the largest number of MPs in the last election. Should be written as Pheua Thai though as Pheua has 2 syllables.

 

Largest number of MPs...   Is that the main, most important point?

 

Is pt actually a political party? My vote is NO. 

 

 

Best hope for Thailand it looks like but the d********ship is not allowing them much room for campaigning etc.

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Best hope for Thailand it looks like but the d********ship is not allowing them much room for campaigning etc.

Of course. It is hard to let go of control. But "they" will make sure they retain control from the background!

20 hours ago, Puccini said:

Who is pt?

 

19 hours ago, bannork said:

Pheu Thai, the political party with the largest number of MPs in the last election. Should be written as Pheua Thai though as Pheua has 2 syllables.

 

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Largest number of MPs...   Is that the main, most important point?

 

Is pt actually a political party? My vote is NO. 

 

 

You were the one bemoaning the fact that your Thai colleagues among the university academic staff do not understand the real workings of democracy, and now you question whether having the most MPs, and thus one must presume the largest share of the popular vote is the most important point?

 

Might I suggest that reveals a somewhat flakey understanding of the process?

9 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

 

You were the one bemoaning the fact that your Thai colleagues among the university academic staff do not understand the real workings of democracy, and now you question whether having the most MPs, and thus one must presume the largest share of the popular vote is the most important point?

 

Might I suggest that reveals a somewhat flakey understanding of the process?

 

So are you suggesting that the politicians who make up the party, who at last election, 'won the largest number of seats' are all highly knowledgeable about democracy and the pillars / processes of democracy?

 

That's the joke of the century.

 

Now away you go and divert and attack the poster instead of the content of the message.

 

 

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

So are you suggesting that the politicians who make up the party, who at last election, 'won the largest number of seats' are all highly knowledgeable about democracy and the pillars / processes of democracy?

 

That's the joke of the century.

 

Now away you go and divert and attack the poster instead of the content of the message.

 

 

No, I am suggesting that standing for, and being elected reveals a fairly fundemental grasp of the realities of the democratic process. You claim your colleague wished to "qualify" that democratic process, I am suggesting that you are doing exactly the same.

 

I am directly commenting on(attacking if you like)  the content of your message because you, as ever, seek to fundementaly endorse the fact that disliking a party, and disapproval of the policies which led to its electoral success are grounds for denying it's success.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 20187 yr by JAG