Aussies And Guns

[KevinN]

Thought you aussies would be interested in this.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were

forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be

destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia

taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44

percent!)

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now

up 300 percent.

(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the

criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease

in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically

upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are

guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults

of the ELDERLY.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public

safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense

was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of

guns."

[taxexile]

same in the uk, only the criminals are "allowed" to have guns, making guns illegal just sends them underground and therefore so much easier for the criminal to get hold of.

householders cannot, so armed break ins and armed robberies and shootings are increasing all the time.

[kasi]

Funny how that works! Yet the avid gun control advocates still try to maintain that crime is down in face of these facts.

By the way where did those numbers come from?

[350torana]

I am curious as to the source of these stats. I think stats can be interpreted in different ways

Australian homocides are up 3.2 % . Is this homicides with guns or other weapons ?

Assaults are up 8.6% . Same question, assualts with a gun or other weapon?

In Victoria, homicides with guns are up 300% . I have no argument for this one, if it is true it worries the ###### out of me.

There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults on the elderly. Not sure if this has anything to do with firearms. More like an increase in substance abuse.

As you can see I am no fan of guns. I think Charlton Heston and the rest of the gun lobby have way to much clout in the US.

Nearly ten years ago, in my sleepy part of Aussie . A disturbed young guy driving a Volvo with a surfboard on the roof went nuts at a tourist attraction and killed 30 plus innocent people . Only months before someone else shot a bunch of schoolkids in Scotland This caused the Goverment to ban all semi and automatic weapons in a buy back scheme.

I am not for a total ban on guns. ###### if Elmer Fudd wants to go shooting wabbits, ducks or whatever then set me a place at the table .

The fact is you are much more likely to get shot and killed by someone in your own household than a housebreaker, mugger ect. So , the right to own a gun to defend yourself is a reasoning open to argument .

[KevinN]

When I was young I worked out in the jungle in southern mexico,and it was safe and honest people and everyone had a gun.,and I lived in mexico in the mid 90s long after gun control was put in and you were not safe anywhere or your stuff was not safe from thieves anywhere either, I was robbed at gun point one time and checked for guns every 50 miles I drove down the hiways.

Here is some more stuff I found.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to

1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves,

were rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5

million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13

million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20

million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,

100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded

up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979,

300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one

million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th

Century because of gun control: 56 million.

[chonabot]

The percentage of gun related crimes in the UK is far lower than somewhere like the USA , mainly because guns have never been legal here , except for shotguns etc for "sporting" use.

I agree if the legality of firearms was removed from USA their would be unparalleled bloodshed , even more so than we have seen so far.

Does Bush care?

[350torana]

"56 million defenceless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20 th century"

Wherever this quote came from it is really a long strech of the bow. The death toll from WW2 (cause and effect , both European and Pacific theatres) alone was close to 40 million. One could argue that if there were no guns such a death toll would have been dramitically reduced, probably have been no war at all . How far would Hitler got without guns, be they MGs or tiger tanks, stukas ect. Remeber Poland had guns, where they able to defend themselves? Any history buffs could argue the irony about Hitler and gun control. One of his main beefs was the Versialles treaty from WW1 which was a form of gun control.

The White Russians had guns and the support of France and Britain during the Russian Revolution, they still lost to the Reds.

From the hand cannon to the musket, bolt action rifle, and maxim

to modern day weapons , they cause alot more death than any other weapon . I think the world would be a better place without them .

Sorry for the essay, not sure what it has to do with Thailand I know

[Padkapow Guy]

They can have my guns after they pry my cold dead fingers off of them.

[stumonster]

about 5 years ago I remember reading an article showing statistic's indicating that you were more likely to suffer injury or death from a confrontation with a knife( or similar ) than firearm. The conclusion pointed out that incidents with knives were more common and also people were more inclined to resist when faced with a knife.

I do not know what the government expected with its firearm amnesty, but yes the honest people handed them in and the dis-honest did not?

I do believe in firearm registration/liciencing as it also allows for education in weapon safety and security.

If you live in the city why do you need a collection of semi/automatic assault rifles?

you will not stop criminals from obtaining weapons, but you can make them harder to acccess.

many of the recent robberies of the elderly in australia have not been performed with firearms, because they have been, as torrie350 said, substance abusers looking to get enough money to make their next purchase - and any firearm they might have possessed would have been sold for the cash long before.

as an aside, you do feel a lot more secure when fishing and crabbing in an isolated creek in the gulf of carpentaria, when you have a loaded sk close to hand.

[samran]

Thought you aussies would be interested in this.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were

forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be

destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia

taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44

percent!)

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now

up 300 percent.

(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the

criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease

in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically

upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are

guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults

of the ELDERLY.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public

safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense

was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of

guns."

Bloody NRA zealots. By all means continue screwing with your own country, leave us Australians out of it.

yeah, nice how you can be tricky with numbers and statistics can't you? All of these numbers are off a very low base. For instance, an increase of 5 murders per year to 15 murders is indeed a 300% rise if you want to look at it that way. Who needs absolute comparisions when you can scaremonger like this?

Am very glad that I can still sit in the front seat of a taxi in Australia and that the taxi driver is insulted if I don't.

Am very happy that my Prime Minister can go out and about without half the 7th fleet there to protect him.

Am very happy that I feel safe on amost any street corner in Australia, except perhaps out the front of the US embassy.

[KevinN]

quote;;many of the recent robberies of the elderly in australia have not been performed with firearms, because they have been, as torrie350 said, substance abusers looking to get enough money to make their next purchase - and any firearm they might have possessed would have been sold for the cash long before.

How very true, no one said that they were committed with guns,,But how many,just like other robbery's would have been committed if the perps were not sure that there was no gun in the hands of homeowners,,just like I stated happening in Mexico,now the bad guys are sure that they are safe to do what ever they want because they are sure that you do not have a gun and they do.

A mechanic usually won't sell his tools and a thief won't sell his gun,they need them to make a living.

How many crimes would be committed if there was no police or prisons,,still the fear of prison does not deter all people,just like the thought of getting shot would not stop all thieves,,but it does seem to make some of them think.

Just like enforcement traffic laws in Thailand,There is no fear of getting caught,as there is no enforcement,so therefore no paying attn to the laws.

I think that the deterrent of not knowing if the victim is armed or not is and will always be there. And not everyone that owns guns,no matter full automatics or muzzle loaders goes around shooting people.

[guido]

When I was young I worked out in the jungle in southern mexico,and it was safe and honest people and everyone had a gun.,and I lived in mexico in the mid 90s long after gun control was put in and you were not safe anywhere or your stuff was not safe from thieves anywhere either, I was robbed at gun point one time and checked for guns every 50 miles I drove down the hiways.

Here is some more stuff I found.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to

1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves,

were rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5

million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13

million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20

million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,

100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded

up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979,

300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up

and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one

million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were

rounded up and exterminated.

--------------------------------------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th

Century because of gun control: 56 million.

Excellent points and historically informative as well. I carry a 9mm cz in my car and of course have NO criminal history...i can guarantee you unequivocally i will not be car jacked..nor will any innocent while im around if i can help it.Thats good for me,innocents,and very bad for crimnals..i like that!...I have other more potent,legal weapons and would be the worst possible choice for an unlawful round up by a tyrant and so would many of my friends.I like that too.

[maerim]

Excellent points and historically informative as well. I carry a 9mm cz in my car and of course have NO criminal history...i can guarantee you unequivocally i will not be car jacked..nor will any innocent while im around if i can help it.Thats good for me,innocents,and very bad for crimnals..i like that!...I have other more potent,legal weapons and would be the worst possible choice for an unlawful round up by a tyrant and so would many of my friends.I like that too

I wonder if I can ask where you live?

I just hope to Christ it's nowhere near me.

[naja]

Many of the posts on this thread have not learnt a lesson in elementary statistics "correlation does not necessarily indicate causation".

I

[maerim]

Many of the posts on this thread have not learnt a lesson in elementary statistics "correlation does not necessarily indicate causation".

If I were you I would be very carefull who I insult with this crowd,shoot first ask questions later.

[KevinN]

naja;I feel the same way, I was always licensed to carry and usually did and always when traveling and had one in the car at least.

But in Mexico,there are no guns allowed and there are a lot of deaths and robberys now that the gun laws were passed,they will stop a car with the excuse of being broke down,and when you stop to help,they kill you and take the car, never had any trouble as long as everyone was armed. One of the ones that robbed me was a federaly.

[naja]

Maerim,

I should take your advice.

Although I dislike guns,and am all in favour of very stringent gun control,I have had some experience in firing a .357 Ruger magnum, .22 Ruger revolver,a SLR and various shotguns.I live in the Wild North of Australia ,where men are men and the agile wallabies are very nervous.

[Nam Kao]

An armed society, is a polite society

[simon43]

The gun control in the UK is very strict. Years ago I had a collection of disguised weapons. You know the sort of thing, guns disguised as umbrellas, walking sticks, pens etc etc. Very historical stuff. After the Dumblane shootings certain categories of these weapons were outlawed and I had to surrender a number of my guns. Did I get compensation? No. Could I donate them to a museum? No. In short, a number of very interesting historical weapons were put through the crusher.

I still own about 40 different guns, so don't think of messing me about

PS - Can a farang own a gun in Thailand? (I mean for sporting/clay pigeon purposes). I assume the asswer is a resounding NO!!!

[maerim]

The gun control in the UK is very strict.

I still own about 40 different guns, so don't think of messing me about

Just as well then that the gun laws in the U.K. are very strict with an attitude like you have.

You say you still have 40 guns?

That's about ,lets see,40 too many.

[KevinN]

No A farang can not legally own a gun in Thailand,according to my wife.

I know a lot of people in America that own a collection of guns and a lot of em never load or shoot them,Guns are a very interesting piece of machinery, just the same as a lot of people own a collection of cars and other machines that are never run or operated.

I myself own a lot of guns,shot guns,short and long guns,I got a lot of them when my father died and all his were left to me,some he had never fired and I have never fired, antiques including muzzle loaders and early Winchesters,some guns that were brought to the states from Germany after the war that have never been fired since before they left Germany and all with ammo that is made for them.

also his sporting weapons of which I have only fired his Parker-Hale 7mm rem mag, I have his Beretta 20 Gage double that I gave him for Xmas in 1960 and I have never fired it.

Just because you are a gun collector does not mean that you are a killer and anyone that thinks no one should own guns for any reason is a ###### nut and should not even be allowed to mix with regular society because he has homicidal tendency's and thinks that guns kill people,,people kill people.As has been stated,,most are killed with knives,so why don't they get on the stump and outlaw knives?