Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"and some people reported that illegal services (such as the free Certificate of Residence that you had to pay) have been suspended since yesterday."

 

That's interesting, as my agent picked up my passport for my 90 day report last Monday and said I needed to renew the certificate of residence.  As I was (rolling my eyes...) and asking her the documentation required - she interrupted to say "500 bht".....  I was annoyed, but couldn't be bothered to argue and so just gave a cynical laugh, and gave her 500 bht....

 

She said she'd return my passport on Wed. - but I'm still waiting....  Although in my case, it's more likely that she's annoyed at my very obvious, cynical attitude at the demand for an extra 500 bht, rather than anything else.

 

I live on Phuket.

I've never heard of or needed a certificate of residence, what's it for ? I have a yellow book. 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, soalbundy said:

I've never heard of or needed a certificate of residence, what's it for ? I have a yellow book. 

My mistake, I meant proof of residence.  Unfortunately I don't have a yellow book, so have to provide other evidence.

[stanleycoin]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I've never heard of or needed a certificate of residence, what's it for ? I have a yellow book. 

Do you have a chocolate tea pot as well. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, stanleycoin said:

Do you have a chocolate tea pot as well. 

no, just the yellow book, which as I suspected was the reason I didn't need the certificate of residence, always better to make sure, wouldn't want to be missing out on something.

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

Do you have a chocolate tea pot as well. 

I also have a yellow house book but I don't have a tea pot, chocolate or not.

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

and even with letters that is not verification in the true sense of the word, without trust there is no verification. You can show that water boils at 100 degrees C but that isn't verification that it will do so in 10 minuets time.

What's Haydn got to do with this?

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My concern now is for genuine people who have been here for years and if there immigration office refuses there applications because of this change it is not fair or just, immigration should grandfather them, surely from records they know perfectly well who they are.  

We have trouble separating the genuine people from the ersatz types in Pattaya.

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What's Haydn got to do with this?

Joseph ?

[sambum]

3 hours ago, jimn said:

The earliest the income method will become a true issue is June/July next year. Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months, if TI carry on with their current acceptance of up to 6 months old. So there are now 7 months for the current impass to be sorted. Every post on every thread is just speculation nothing more. Including mine I might add.

Every post on every thread is just speculation

 

Wrong! Some are jut suggestions!

[zoza]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:48 AM, Sheryl said:

end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period. The income affidavits are currently valid for six months."
 

This sounds like it might help if what is said is fact,

I am due to extend my (retirement) visa the end of January but by this I might be able to bring it forward to early December, I presume they mean

help for all affected and not just the Yanks? 

[sambum]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

Only last year, the Thai government said this:

 

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/788863/Brexit-UK-Thailand-pensioners-retirement

Yes but for that you need more than 800,000 baht in the Bank!

[Esso49]

12 minutes ago, sambum said:

Every post on every thread is just speculation

 

Wrong! Some are jut suggestions!

wrong again, some are just fantasy

[sambum]

1 minute ago, Esso49 said:

wrong again, some are just fantasy

Wrong again! You were the one who said "every post" first!!! 

 

Fantasy or not, a cynical attitude is no help to anybody - at least some people on here are showing a bit of concern for others who may have a problem with dealing with this latest bit of "legislation" caused by Thai Immigration  and the British Embassy spitting their dummies out! TI by suddenly wanting the BE to verify something that they can not legally do, and the BE by not offering their citizens a viable alternative - which is why some people on here are trying to find a way round the problem. 

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

Wrong again! You were the one who said "every post" first!!! 

 

Fantasy or not, a cynical attitude is no help to anybody - at least some people on here are showing a bit of concern for others who may have a problem with dealing with this latest bit of "legislation" caused by Thai Immigration  and the British Embassy spitting their dummies out! TI by suddenly wanting the BE to verify something that they can not legally do, and the BE by not offering their citizens a viable alternative - which is why some people on here are trying to find a way round the problem. 

You prove my point exactly if you think anybody on this forum can find a way round the problem.  The issue is that Thai immigration appear to have advised the Embassies that they must verify the income statements which they have previously issued. They can't so won't issue certificates any longer.  The resolution to this problem lies with Thai Immigration and/or the embassy.   Nothing you or anybody else dream up on here will resolve that problem.  To think you are important enough that you can resolve it without those two parties then clearly you certainly are living a fantasy world.

 

The number of years of living in Thailand I have come across numerous people who claim and/or boost that they have beaten the system by using dodgy agents to get around the 800000 k deposit ( the current requirement).  I have never met anyone who claims to have used a dodgy agent to get around the 400000 deposit for a marriage extension.

 

Maybe Thai Immigration now has good cause to stop this fantasy world of many retirees dreaming they can always buck the system.  Lets hope it does get stopped for the sake of those married and retired, who do not live in a fantasy world, but are now being potentially penalised because of them

 

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

You prove my point exactly if you think anybody on this forum can find a way round the problem.  The issue is that Thai immigration appear to have advised the Embassies that they must verify the income statements which they have previously issued. They can't so won't issue certificates any longer.  The resolution to this problem lies with Thai Immigration and/or the embassy.   Nothing you or anybody else dream up on here will resolve that problem.  To think you are important enough that you can resolve it without those two parties then clearly you certainly are living a fantasy world.

 

The number of years of living in Thailand I have come across numerous people who claim and/or boost that they have beaten the system by using dodgy agents to get around the 800000 k deposit ( the current requirement).  I have never met anyone who claims to have used a dodgy agent to get around the 400000 deposit for a marriage extension.

 

Maybe Thai Immigration now has good cause to stop this fantasy world of many retirees dreaming they can always buck the system.  Lets hope it does get stopped for the sake of those married and retired, who do not live in a fantasy world, but are now being potentially penalised because of them

 

that Thai immigration appear to have advised the embassies

 

the only embassies with storm clouds over their heads thus far are the UK and US embassies.

 

.....so wont issue certificates any longer

 

A sweeping statement but we haven't a peep from any other embassies, in fact just a few days ago I spoke with the attache of the German embassy who said they have no plans to stop the letter.

 

You are assuming that the expat community is swarming with cheats who have no money but they are all living from something. You appear to take delight in the difficulties of others, a Wyatt Earp, strict accordance to the law. Do you think that someone who has an income of 64,000 instead of the arbitrary 65,000 should be made to leave ? or that those with the required income should be made to jump through even more hoops.

As for fantasy worlds, we have heard nothing from TI which suggests they are going to change the system as it stands which is a pragmatic compromise, only from the UK and US embassies who say they can't/wont play the game anymore. True verification to legal standards is impossible and TI knows that as do the embassies so we have a game of trust which works well.

[sambum]

42 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

You prove my point exactly if you think anybody on this forum can find a way round the problem.  The issue is that Thai immigration appear to have advised the Embassies that they must verify the income statements which they have previously issued. They can't so won't issue certificates any longer.  The resolution to this problem lies with Thai Immigration and/or the embassy.   Nothing you or anybody else dream up on here will resolve that problem.  To think you are important enough that you can resolve it without those two parties then clearly you certainly are living a fantasy world.

 

The number of years of living in Thailand I have come across numerous people who claim and/or boost that they have beaten the system by using dodgy agents to get around the 800000 k deposit ( the current requirement).  I have never met anyone who claims to have used a dodgy agent to get around the 400000 deposit for a marriage extension.

 

Maybe Thai Immigration now has good cause to stop this fantasy world of many retirees dreaming they can always buck the system.  Lets hope it does get stopped for the sake of those married and retired, who do not live in a fantasy world, but are now being potentially penalised because of them

 

You prove my point exactly when you say:- "Nothing you or anybody else dream up on here will resolve that problem.  To think you are important enough that you can resolve it without those two parties then clearly you certainly are living a fantasy world."

 

I NEVER said or implied that I or anybody else on TV was "important enough to resolve it without those two parties" You are purposefully misinterpreting what I said.

 

To recap:-

 

You:- Every post on every thread is just speculation 

Me:- Wrong! Some are just suggestions!

You:- wrong again, some are just fantasy

 

I was saying, quite clearly, that some people on here might be able to make suggestions regarding the problems, but you pooh poohed that as "just fantasy"

 

For instance, "Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months" was an answer given to someone who had been led to believe that it was only valid for 30 days, so no doubt they found that helpful, and far from being "fantasy"!

 

And to say:- "Maybe Thai Immigration now has good cause to stop this fantasy world of many retirees dreaming they can always buck the system" is total garbage. The majority of people on "retirement/extension of stay" visas have been playing by the rules and getting their proof of income letters quite honestly by furnishing their financial details to the Embassy. There are exceptions, of course, but in your mind, the majority have been "bucking the system" - you don't even consider the facts before you make your criticisms.  

 

I would suggest that you learn to read posts properly before making your cynical, totally unhelpful comments, and as I said previously to a similar like minded individual - if you want to live your life with a half empty glass - up to you, but don't knock those of us that are trying to help. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by sambum

[KhunFred]

20 hours ago, billd766 said:

Thanks Sheryl. I am already working on that and it looks as though I may be 10 to 20,000 baht short of the 65k per month over the 12 month period. Putting that in would not present a big problem but my extension date is 23rd of August  and with the best will in the world, up here in Khampaeng Phet, the IO won't accept it 2 months early.

 

I am also working on changing from a retirement to a marriage extension and I have enough funds to do that comfortably.

 

Some posters have mentioned using an agent to help, but at this point I don't know of any up here as I have never had to use one.

This might actually make it easier for people like me who are getting married soon. My Social Security check alone is more than enough to cover the 40 thousand baht amount. I get another smaller check from my state teacher's retirement system and an annuity check. I have verification letters from all three agencies, but whether they would be honored is the problem.  I have difficulty believing that I am going to find any "good luck" just lying around in Thailand.

[Esso49]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

You prove my point exactly when you say:- "Nothing you or anybody else dream up on here will resolve that problem.  To think you are important enough that you can resolve it without those two parties then clearly you certainly are living a fantasy world."

 

I NEVER said or implied that I or anybody else on TV was "important enough to resolve it without those two parties" You are purposefully misinterpreting what I said.

 

To recap:-

 

You:- Every post on every thread is just speculation 

Me:- Wrong! Some are just suggestions!

You:- wrong again, some are just fantasy

 

I was saying, quite clearly, that some people on here might be able to make suggestions regarding the problems, but you pooh poohed that as "just fantasy"

 

For instance, "Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months" was an answer given to someone who had been led to believe that it was only valid for 30 days, so no doubt they found that helpful, and far from being "fantasy"!

 

And to say:- "Maybe Thai Immigration now has good cause to stop this fantasy world of many retirees dreaming they can always buck the system" is total garbage. The majority of people on "retirement/extension of stay" visas have been playing by the rules and getting their proof of income letters quite honestly by furnishing their financial details to the Embassy. There are exceptions, of course, but in your mind, the majority have been "bucking the system" - you don't even consider the facts before you make your criticisms.  

 

I would suggest that you learn to read posts properly before making your cynical, totally unhelpful comments, and as I said previously to a similar like minded individual - if you want to live your life with a half empty glass - up to you, but don't knock those of us that are trying to help. 

 

 

An looks like a raw nerve has been hit so if the cap fit wear it well. 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

I also have a yellow house book but I don't have a tea pot, chocolate or not.

 

Especially for Kwasaki

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdu5lLpMH_w

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[billd766]

57 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

This might actually make it easier for people like me who are getting married soon. My Social Security check alone is more than enough to cover the 40 thousand baht amount. I get another smaller check from my state teacher's retirement system and an annuity check. I have verification letters from all three agencies, but whether they would be honored is the problem.  I have difficulty believing that I am going to find any "good luck" just lying around in Thailand.

Unfortunately my renewal is not due until 23rd August 2019 so I am unable to help you there.

 

However if you are getting married in your own country you will need to get the marriage licence notarised and translated at a Thai embassy in your country before you come over and then register it at the local amphur where you live. There is a lot of information on the Visa forum but if you get stuck I suggest that you contact UbonJoe who is a moderator and has a vast knowledge of the Thai Immigration rules and laws.

 

I am in the process of changing from a retirement to a marriage extension because of the forex rate has dropped me to below the 65,000 baht limit. I can fairly easily top it up but until both this Immigration letter problem and the forthcoming Brexit I have no idea what the forex rate will be by August 2019.

 

BTW the money for your pensions needs to be paid into a single account in YOUR name only.

 

I wish you the best of luck and if you find any spare "good luck" lying around please send a little to me.

[stanleycoin]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Especially for Kwasaki

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdu5lLpMH_w

 

or maybe 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6skbQHDh0

[billd766]

22 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

or maybe 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6skbQHDh0

Yukkkkkk

[zoza]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 3:01 PM, zoza said:

This sounds like it might help if what is said is fact,

I am due to extend my (retirement) visa the end of January but by this I might be able to bring it forward to early December, I presume they mean

help for all affected and not just the Yanks? 

I went to drop off my documents that I supply to agent who does the income letter for me although he was not in the office I noticed a sign

that stated Chon Buri immigration were now allowing for customers to

apply for their permission to stay visa three months earlier than their 

stated date,  so it is a bit better for some. 

[Robins]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:27 PM, chickenslegs said:

Statements from the British Embassy are not worth anything.

 

Until we hear a statement from Thai Immigration, we are all just guessing.

Sorry to jump in as a newby but I've always looked to Thai Visa when I need a serious answer.

 

I don't think even Immigration knows. Did a 90 day at Pattaya yesterday and tried to ask the person at the retirement desk if there was any acceptable way to prove income other than having an 800,000 balance in the bank.   He seemed to say the bank account is the only method and that no other proof would be accepted, then basically said "it's not until next year, why are you worrying about it now." I don't think he had a clue. (This was one of the younger officers, not the older one whose been doing it for years, my luck he was not there yesterday.)

 

They had the copy of the announcement from the Australian Embassy posted as "News" as if it was their document and it's worded grimly.  

 

Is this as dire as it sounds?  I have a Calpers pension that is twice the requirement but they absolutely will not deposit it in a foreign bank so I've lived by ATM card for 10 years and can show records of those transactions but never bothered with a Thai bank account.  It's going to take me the better part of a year to scrape 800,000 Baht together along with a lot of nights sitting at home instead of going out.

 

Is this as dire as it sounds?  Are they going to kick out people who have been here 10 years and more? \

 

I couldn't sleep last night but did easily open an account this morning at Krung Thai Bank and they seemed to be aware of the requirement and didn't give me any problems opening the account, but it's damn hard to go from no savings to 800,000 Baht it will take me at least a year.  \

 

PS  My dogs, my car, my motorcycles and everything I own is here.  Don't they realize the stress of this uncertainty or do they just not care.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Robins

[Spidey]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:38 AM, Esso49 said:

The number of years of living in Thailand I have come across numerous people who claim and/or boost that they have beaten the system by using dodgy agents to get around the 800000 k deposit ( the current requirement).  I have never met anyone who claims to have used a dodgy agent to get around the 400000 deposit for a marriage extension.

 I know someone who has been doing it for years.

[seeyoujimmy]

I consider myself very lucky just renewed my extension last month with a BE letter. I have over 65000B per month income and have been here 8 years doing my extension that way. 

I just sold my house in Scotland so if it is the only way i can have 800000 in a Thai bank account i could not have done that before, there will be people with children that have the income but not money in the bank.

My heart goes out to them and the stress they must be under.

There have been a lot of comments stating that if you have reached retirement age you must have at least 800000B, but you do not know there circumstances.

So please have a bit of compassion for your fellow retirees who just come here for a better life in old age. 

 

 

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

26 minutes ago, seeyoujimmy said:

I consider myself very lucky just renewed my extension last month with a BE letter. I have over 65000B per month income and have been here 8 years doing my extension that way. 

I just sold my house in Scotland so if it is the only way i can have 800000 in a Thai bank account i could not have done that before, there will be people with children that have the income but not money in the bank.

My heart goes out to them and the stress they must be under.

There have been a lot of comments stating that if you have reached retirement age you must have at least 800000B, but you do not know there circumstances.

So please have a bit of compassion for your fellow retirees who just come here for a better life in old age. 

 

 

 

 

 

One the nail, believe me, those of us with kids and family, we are here to stay, We are that, we are the foot marks on your fields, the signatures on your children's debts for further education, we know you, you know us, not the dregs on the bar stools with their lost dreams, but us who make a real positive difference, we fear nought, we dreadnought.

[KhunFred]

I have numerous documents and statements that show what I make and when the cash is disbursed. No provision for showing any of these for proof. Do the Immigration Police have some sort of sweetheart deal with Bangkok Bank??? This is absolutely ridiculous and a stunt worthy of Donald Trump. 
"Ready, FIRE, aim"

Edited November 13, 2018 by KhunFred

[Robins]

2 hours ago, seeyoujimmy said:

I consider myself very lucky just renewed my extension last month with a BE letter. I have over 65000B per month income and have been here 8 years doing my extension that way. 

I just sold my house in Scotland so if it is the only way i can have 800000 in a Thai bank account i could not have done that before, there will be people with children that have the income but not money in the bank.

My heart goes out to them and the stress they must be under.

There have been a lot of comments stating that if you have reached retirement age you must have at least 800000B, but you do not know there circumstances.

So please have a bit of compassion for your fellow retirees who just come here for a better life in old age. 

 

 

The absurd thing will be that the 800,000 Baht will just sit there collecting zero interest and you'll need other money to live on or be screwed the following year.

Having an income and having 800,000 Baht ($25,000 approx) in the bank are entirely separate matters.  

 

[luckyluke]

However hoping, I doubt that T. I. will change something in their written rules. 

 

It is uncommon that Thais listen to others and change their way of doing.

 

But assuming they do, this will be a chock for the other nationalities.

 

British people will not be very popular anymore as their embassy started this "dullness". 

 

For the benefit of all,  the British Embassy should better retract their decision, the 2 other embassies would certainly follow. 

 

Then all embassies should sit together with T. I. to find a consensus. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by luckyluke