Merkel's Bavarian allies humbled in historic election setback

[webfact]

Merkel's Bavarian allies humbled in historic election setback

By Michael Nienaber, Paul Carrel and Jörn Poltz

 

FILE PHOTO: German Chancellor Angela Merkel seen during a joint news conference with Slovenian Prime Minister Marjan Sarec in Berlin, Germany, October 12, 2018. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch/File Photo

 

BERLIN/MUNICH (Reuters) - Chancellor Angela Merkel's Bavarian allies suffered their worst election result since 1950 on Sunday, bleeding votes to the far-right in a setback that immediately raised tensions within Germany's crisis-prone national government.

 

The Christian Social Union (CSU) won 35.6 percent of the vote, preliminary results showed, losing its absolute majority for only the second time since 1962 - an outcome sure to stoke infighting in the conservative party, already a difficult partner for Merkel in Berlin.

 

"Of course today is not an easy day for the CSU. We did not achieve a good result," Bavarian premier Markus Soeder told a gathering of his party. "We accept the result with humility," he said, adding that the CSU nonetheless wanted to form a stable government as soon as possible.

 

The result, which saw the pro-immigration Greens come second and the far-right Alternative forGermany (AfD) enter the state assembly for the first time, means the CSU will need to form a coalition - a humiliation for a party used to ruling alone.

 

The Greens, who more than doubled their share of the vote to 18.3 percent, attracted support from more liberal CSU voters and from those who traditionally vote for the left-leaning Social Democrats (SPD), who won just 9.7 percent.

 

"The political earthquake was in Bavaria, but the aftershocks will be felt in Berlin ... Talk will increase ever more about the end of the Merkel era," said Fred Kempe, president of the Washington-based Atlantic Council think tank.

 

Without naming Merkel, SPD leader Andrea Nahles said the "poor performance" of the federal government in Berlin was one of the reasons for her party's weak showing in Bavaria. "It's clear that something has to change," she said.

 

THORN IN MERKEL'S SIDE

CSU leader Horst Seehofer has been a thorn in Merkel's side since her 2015 decision to openGermany's borders to more than 1 million migrants, gradually shifting his party to the right in an ultimately futile effort to counter the rise of the AfD.

 

Michael Weigl, political scientist at the University of Passau, said personal attacks on Merkel by Seehofer - who is the federal interior minister - and his hard-line rhetoric against asylum seekers were to blame for the CSU's weak result.

 

"This created a political climate of polarisation from which the Greens and the AfD benefited the most, with their clear stances on immigration," Weigl said. "For the CSU, this strategy backfired."

 

Asked if he would resign as CSU leader, Seehofer told ZDF broadcaster that he wasn't ruling this out but there were many reasons for the party's weak result which now had to be analysed prudently.

 

The AfD won 10.9 percent of the vote, the preliminary results showed. The Free Voters, a protest party that is the CSU's most likely coalition party, won 11.6 percent. The CSU has ruled out an alliance with the AfD.

 

INFIGHTING

Divisions between Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and the CSU - conservative sister parties - have widened further since an inconclusive national election forced them into a coalition in March with the Social Democrats.

 

The Bavarian election is followed in two weeks by another test for Merkel's conservative alliance: her CDU is likely to remain the largest party but lose votes in an election in the western state of Hesse, home to the financial centre of Frankfurt.

 

The CDU then holds its annual congress in December, when Merkel will seek re-election as party chairwoman - a bid senior conservatives have backed despite the parliamentary party ousting her ally, Volker Kauder, as leader last month.

 

Before the Bavarian vote, Merkel urged her CDU and CSU allies to end their infighting.

 

Her fourth and probably final government has already come close to collapsing twice, in arguments over immigration and a scandal over Germany's former domestic spymaster, while simmering rows over phasing out polluting diesel cars and whether to lower taxes for the rich threaten to boil over.

 

"Now all eyes are on the next state election in Hesse," said Kempe, at the Atlantic Council. "If things go badly there, the calls for Merkel to step down will increase."

 

(Editing by Clelia Oziel, Jason Neely and David Stamp)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-15

[blazes]

Excellent news.  

[Mychoicetobehere]

18 minutes ago, blazes said:

Excellent news.  

This should show the silly woman how the voters feel about her stupid "We can do it" attitude towards unfettered immigration  but it's too late.  

[bristolboy]

45 minutes ago, Mychoicetobehere said:

This should show the silly woman how the voters feel about her stupid "We can do it" attitude towards unfettered immigration  but it's too late.  

Do you realize that the Green party in Bavaria is now the 2nd most popular?

[blazes]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Do you realize that the Green party in Bavaria is now the 2nd most popular?

 

Yes, that's the bad news.  Are these the same Greens who wanted Merkel to shut down every nuclear power station in Germany after the Fukuyama sunami? Overnight?

 

As a matter of fact they are, and have now produced a Germany, formerly running nice'n clean on nuclear power, that is one of the dirtiest emitter of coal-fired pollution in Europe.

 

But of course, the Greens know best.....

[bristolboy]

Just now, blazes said:

 

Yes, that's the bad news.  Are these the same Greens who wanted Merkel to shut down every nuclear power station in Germany after the Fukuyama sunami? Overnight?

 

As a matter of fact they are, and have now produced a Germany, formerly running nice'n clean on nuclear power, that is one of the dirtiest emitter of coal-fired pollution in Europe.

 

But of course, the Greens know best.....

 

1 hour ago, blazes said:

Excellent news.  

So you're saying that after careful consideration, you've changed your mind and this isn't "excellent news'? Especially considering the gains enjoyed by other parties to the left of the CSU? 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Mychoicetobehere said:

This should show the silly woman how the voters feel about her stupid "We can do it" attitude towards unfettered immigration  but it's too late.  

Really? It was parties to the left of the CSU that benefited most in this election.

[blazes]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Really? It was parties to the left of the CSU that benefited most in this election.

Depends how you define "benefits".

The figures were:

CSU 35.6

Greens 18.3

AfD 10.6

SPD 9.7

 

It looks like the "socialists" of the SPD have decamped to the only "leftish" [sic] party available.  Doubtless the deserters will eventually climb back aboard the SPD cruiser.  

Either way, the Greens have been around a long time, while the AfD has won its way into the state parliament at the first try.  Suggests that momentum is to the Right.  As it should be after the disgraceful events of 2015.

 

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, blazes said:

Depends how you define "benefits".

The figures were:

CSU 35.6

Greens 18.3

AfD 10.6

SPD 9.7

 

It looks like the "socialists" of the SPD have decamped to the only "leftish" [sic] party available.  Doubtless the deserters will eventually climb back aboard the SPD cruiser.  

Either way, the Greens have been around a long time, while the AfD has won its way into the state parliament at the first try.  Suggests that momentum is to the Right.  As it should be after the disgraceful events of 2015.

 

 

"Undoubtedly, the public is concerned about migration and security, but according to a report put out in October by DeutschlandTrend, more Bavarian voters are preoccupied with education, the environment, and affordable housing. Among those polled for the DeutschlandTrend report, 55 percent said education was “very important,” 46 percent said the same about the environment, and 45 percent did about affordable housing. Just under 40 percent said immigration was very important."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/11/forget-the-afd-in-bavaria-green-could-be-king/

[micmichd]

1 hour ago, blazes said:

 

Yes, that's the bad news.  Are these the same Greens who wanted Merkel to shut down every nuclear power station in Germany after the Fukuyama sunami? Overnight?

 

As a matter of fact they are, and have now produced a Germany, formerly running nice'n clean on nuclear power, that is one of the dirtiest emitter of coal-fired pollution in Europe.

 

But of course, the Greens know best.....

Nuclear power - more precisely the power from nuclear fission - isn't that clean after all. The nuclear waste can be converted into plutonium - the material used for nuclear bombs. 

Would you like to run the risk that Germans get a hold on nuclear weapons?

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Nuclear power - more precisely the power from nuclear fission - isn't that clean after all. The nuclear waste can be converted into plutonium - the material used for nuclear bombs. 

Would you like to run the risk that Germans get a hold on nuclear weapons?

You think that if the Germans wanted them they couldn't have them already? And given the Germans' reluctance to get involved in military engagements, why do you think it would be an especially bad thing if they did?

[Spidey]

22 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Nuclear power - more precisely the power from nuclear fission - isn't that clean after all. The nuclear waste can be converted into plutonium - the material used for nuclear bombs. 

Would you like to run the risk that Germans get a hold on nuclear weapons?

The waste from nuclear power stations isn't used for producing plutonium. You need a fast breeder reactor to produce viable quantities of plutonium and Germany doesn't have any of those.

 

I'd much prefer Germany to have nuclear weapons than Pakistan, India and Israel, who already have them.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Spidey

[micmichd]

30 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You think that if the Germans wanted them they couldn't have them already? And given the Germans' reluctance to get involved in military engagements, why do you think it would be an especially bad thing if they did?

They could get tempted to use nuclear weapons in the North-South conflict, just to keep their race "clean" and to make sure they get cheap natural resources. 

For doing so, they would have to create a "patriotic" paradigm and declare all minorities "unpatriotic enemies" - up to the extent where they gas and burn them. They've done that twice before (in two world wars), and the vast majority of Germans either applauded or looked away. 

Fortunately there are superpowers now to keep them under control. 

[micmichd]

25 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The waste from nuclear power stations isn't used for producing plutonium. You need a fast breeder reactor to produce viable quantities of plutonium and Germany doesn't have any of those.

 

I'd much prefer Germany to have nuclear weapons than Pakistan, India and Israel, who already have them.

They have an experimental fast breed reactor in Kalkar (near the Dutch border), and probably some more experimental plants. 

 

I'd prefer no country in the world to have nuclear weapons, but (due to religious conflicts) the world is not such an ideal place as I would like it to be. 

Israel is certainly a special case. Small and overcrowded, surrounded by hostile countries. In an environment like this I would be glad to have nuclear weapons. 

Not to be mistaken: no Pakistani, no Indian, no Israeli ever attacked me personally - but Germans did. 

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, micmichd said:

They have an experimental fast breed reactor in Kalkar (near the Dutch border), and probably some more experimental plants. 

 

I'd prefer no country in the world to have nuclear weapons, but (due to religious conflicts) the world is not such an ideal place as I would like it to be. 

Israel is certainly a special case. Small and overcrowded, surrounded by hostile countries. In an environment like this I would be glad to have nuclear weapons. 

Not to be mistaken: no Pakistani, no Indian, no Israeli ever attacked me personally - but Germans did. 

Do tell, when did the Germans attack you?

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, Mychoicetobehere said:

This should show the silly woman how the voters feel about her stupid "We can do it" attitude towards unfettered immigration  but it's too late.  

Your comment shows that you don’t have much clue about German society and politics. CSU didn’t lose because people wanted tougher immigration rules. The other right-wing Party, AfD, also lost votes. Most people went to vote for the Green Party.

 

Despite all the right-wing shit going on in Europe, Germany keeps showing that it’s an open, liberal, tolerant society. That’s what I loved about that country. They really learned from history. 

[Burma Bill]

Great news - the writings on the "wall" for Merkel. Let us hope other Brussels dictatorial elite are ousted from power.

[welovesundaysatspace]

10 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Great news - the writings on the "wall" for Merkel. Let us hope other Brussels dictatorial elite are ousted from power.

If everyone is voting for the Green like in Bavaria I could live with that. 

[roobaa01]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Really? It was parties to the left of the CSU that benefited most in this election.

fw 2.4 %, afd 10.2 % they are right from the csu together plus 12.6 

 

greens 8.9 % they are left

 

die linke 0.7 % are not in parliament

 

 spd the usual socialist looser minus more than 10 %

 

hence right is the winner with a coalition csu and fw 112 seats in parliament.

 

moral faschists greens and socialist loosers are not wanted for government

 

wbr

roobaa01

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

They have an experimental fast breed reactor in Kalkar (near the Dutch border), and probably some more experimental plants. 

 

I'd prefer no country in the world to have nuclear weapons, but (due to religious conflicts) the world is not such an ideal place as I would like it to be. 

Israel is certainly a special case. Small and overcrowded, surrounded by hostile countries. In an environment like this I would be glad to have nuclear weapons. 

Not to be mistaken: no Pakistani, no Indian, no Israeli ever attacked me personally - but Germans did. 

A mash-up quote from John Lennon:

"I read the news today oh boy, the English Army had just won the war..."

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

fw 2.4 %, afd 10.2 % they are right from the csu together plus 12.6 

FW is not right from the CSU. They’re essentially the same under a different brand. Conservatives. 

 

AfD got less votes than in the last general election (-2.2). 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[roobaa01]

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

FW is not right from the CSU. They’re essentially the same under a different brand. Conservatives. 

 

AfD got less votes than in the last general election (-2.2). 

 

fw is right from csu acc. to their program, the afd had achieved only single figures in previous state elections schleswig -holstein, hamburg, lower sxonia 6 to 8 %, hence now 10.2 is a great success and only 1 parliament left the hessian one and afd will be present in every one. good news spd lost more than 10 %.

wbr roobaa01

[welovesundaysatspace]

34 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

fw is right from csu acc. to their program,

What exactly in their program do you consider “right from csu”? They’re conservatives like the CSU. 

 

Quote

 the afd had achieved only single figures in previous state elections schleswig -holstein, hamburg, lower sxonia 6 to 8 %, hence now 10.2 is a great success

They had 12.4 in Bavaria in the last general election. That’s -2.2. Not sure how -2.2 is a great success. 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, blazes said:

Depends how you define "benefits".

The figures were:

CSU 35.6

Greens 18.3

AfD 10.6

SPD 9.7

 

It looks like the "socialists" of the SPD have decamped to the only "leftish" [sic] party available.  Doubtless the deserters will eventually climb back aboard the SPD cruiser.  

Either way, the Greens have been around a long time, while the AfD has won its way into the state parliament at the first try.  Suggests that momentum is to the Right.  As it should be after the disgraceful events of 2015.

 

 

 

The Greens doubled their vote.

 

All the "minority" parties gained.

 

Moret than enough of them, with the CSU, to neutralise (as they surely will) the Nazis.

 

Germany learned, all too well, that Nazis cannot be bargained with.

 

There will be no deals this time around.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Enoon

[roobaa01]

42 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

What exactly in their program do you consider “right from csu”? They’re conservatives like the CSU. 

 

They had 12.4 in Bavaria in the last general election. That’s -2.2. Not sure how -2.2 is a great success. 

 

 

 

1. you find answers to that merkur.de headline "who are fw" =wer sind die freien waehler ?

 

2. success to be with 22 mandates with the 1rst try in parliament. success to push spd below 10. success to prevail despite media propaganda and cartel party bashing. anyway state elections never compare to general elections in germany.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[roobaa01]

33 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

The Greens doubled their vote.

 

All the "minority" parties gained.

 

Moret than enough of them, with the CSU, to neutralise (as they surely will) the Nazis.

 

Germany learned, all too well, that Nazis cannot be bargained with.

 

There will be no deals this time around.

 

 

what "nazis' can be neutralized??? can u name them ??

 

wbr

roobaa01

[welovesundaysatspace]

44 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

1. you find answers to that merkur.de headline "who are fw" =wer sind die freien waehler ?

No, I didn’t. You claimed their program makes them more right than the CSU, please explain what exactly in the program. 

 

44 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

success to be with 22 mandates with the 1rst try in parliament.

They got -2.2 less than in the last general election 

 

44 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

success to push spd below 10.

They didn’t push the SPD below 10. The SPD lost to ALL parties, but the most votes to the Green Party and CSU. 

 

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, blazes said:

 

 

It looks like the "socialists" of the SPD have decamped to the only "leftish" [sic] party available.  Doubtless the deserters will eventually climb back aboard the SPD cruiser.  

Either way, the Greens have been around a long time, while the AfD has won its way into the state parliament at the first try.  Suggests that momentum is to the Right.  As it should be after the disgraceful events of 2015.

 

 

Except that the AFD's share of the vote actually decreased since the general election. Seems more like momentum in reverse to me.

[roobaa01]

29 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Except that the AFD's share of the vote actually decreased since the general election. Seems more like momentum in reverse to me.

germany afd 18 % second strongest party, state election is different from general election in germany coz of state specific topics.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

 afd had achieved only single figures in previous state elections schleswig -holstein, hamburg, lower sxonia 6 to 8 %, hence now 10.2 is a great success

 

25 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

state election is different from general election in germany coz of state specific topics.

 “state specific topics”? Weren’t you the one who compared Bavaria results with Schleswig-Holstein, Hamburg and Lower-Saxonia? So what are those “state specific topics” that made 2.2% vote less for AfD than did in the last general election?