Heathrow Questions

[caledonia]

hello all,

It's prob a bit late for posting given the current situation but just in case there was any experts around I thoguth I would ask.

So my friend's brother has his girlfriend and baby coming over from South America. I had assumed she needed a visitor visa and that this had all been dealt with. However it would appear that her nationality is issued with a visa on the plane as a visitor. I had also assumed he has sorted out his daughter with a British passport (she was born after July) but he has not and she has travelled on her Mum's nationality (Brazil).

Now maybe I am being cynical but I am a wee bit worried she is not going to get through immigration. She won't be travelling with a lot of money and given that I think it has not been too well planned, she is unlikely to have proof of his funding. So what picture can they best put forward to try and ensure they understand she is returning home. I know it won't look great with her having his baby but surely they won't send them home!!

She has also now been in Heathrow for 5 hours and they are 'looking into things' and are waiting for an interpretator. How long can they keep her for questioning.

it really is a shame as she is just hear to meet the family and well I just wish I had known more of the cicrumsstances. Sadly as most Brits can get just about anywhere with their passport it is only when this happens that you realise not everyone is so lucky!

it is going to be so tought to prove they will return home isn't it!!

The baby is British she just does not have her passport yet - surely she has the right to enter anyway or does she need the passport to do so?

Sorry questions questions questions!!!

[Mahout Angrit]

She doesn't need a Visa but she needs to satisfy immigration of a few things

see here

Too late to help now as she's in LHR but her baby will be treated as Brazilian for immigration purposes this time.

[the scouser]

How long can they keep her for questioning.

An immigration officer must decide within 24 hours whether someone qualifies for leave to enter the UK. However, upon written notification requiring the passenger to submit to further examination, this 24-hour period is extended indefinitely. If the lady is tired and does not wish to face an interview, she must tell the immigration officer who may arrange for it to be held tomorrow. However, she and the baby may be detained pending re-interview, although, alternatively, they may be given temporary admission to the boyfriend's address. NB. An immigration officer's powers of detention are more wide-ranging and stringent than those of a police officer.

The baby is British she just does not have her passport yet - surely she has the right to enter anyway or does she need the passport to do so?

I'm afraid that it's not as straightforward as saying to the IO that the baby is British. Under the '71 Immigration Act, the onus is on the holder to demonstrate to the IO's satisfaction that he/she posseses the right of abode in the UK. In the absence of such evidence, the baby will remain Brazilian. Furthermore, for the child to have a claim to British citizenship, your friend will have to demonstrate not only he is British"otherwise than by descent", but that he is the father, too. Is he named on the child's birth certificate? Did the mother bring it with her?

Scouse.

[caledonia]

How long can they keep her for questioning.

The baby is British she just does not have her passport yet - surely she has the right to enter anyway or does she need the passport to do so?

I'm afraid that it's not as straightforward as saying to the IO that the baby is British. Under the '71 Immigration Act, the onus is on the holder to demonstrate to the IO's satisfaction that he/she posseses the right of abode in the UK. In the absence of such evidence, the baby will remain Brazilian. Furthermore, for the child to have a claim to British citizenship, your friend will have to demonstrate not only he is British"otherwise than by descent", but that he is the father, too. Is he named on the child's birth certificate? Did the mother bring it with her?

Scouse.

Thanks very mcuh for responses - sorry it is all a bit hectic I had just hoped to offer him some advice before he is asked more questions.

He is named on the Child's birth certificate and she does have that with her. He also has his passport with him and that does show he was born before 01.01.1983 and in UK. Does that prove he is British otherwise than by descent? I cannot believe to be honest that he did not get her passport in Rio. I spoke to him and he thought he would just organise that here! Maybe not the most sensible thing!

They are still holding her and waiting still for an interpreator - Not sure how it is taking so long. I had hoped they would not take so long with a 5 month old baby present but I guess thats procedure!!

They have also spoke to him and asked a few questions. Although he said they were just general ones.

I hope it works out ok I just feel for them as I don't think they had idea of the problems ariving as a visitor would cause!! I had assumed (incorrectly) that she alfready had her visa, it was only this morning my friend said she got it on arrival that alarm bells started ringing in my head given the situation of their relationship and child together.

I asume they are not allowed to talk to each other? He is also being left in the dark and has no idea what is going on but then again that is probably the norm too!

[the scouser]

He is named on the Child's birth certificate and she does have that with her. He also has his passport with him and that does show he was born before 01.01.1983 and in UK. Does that prove he is British otherwise than by descent?

Yes, it does. Is your friend at the airport? If so, perhaps he can contact immigration and state that it is clear from the evidence (his passport and the child's birth certificate) that the child has the right of abode in the UK, and they shouldn't be detaining a British citizen. He should add that failure to release the child immediately will result in a claim for unlawful detention. They can release the baby into his custody.

I asume they are not allowed to talk to each other?

Immigration will keep them apart. However, in the holding room at LHR, there will be a payphone. He can ask immigration for the number, or if his girlfriend has change, she can ring him.

Scouse.

[caledonia]

Thank you so much Scouser. Have just spoke to him - he is still waiting and as far as he is aware they are still waiting for Interpretor. I have given him the info about the baby's circs though and to ask for the number to speak to his girlf. They have probbably not thought to make that point about Baby's circs clear so maybe immigration have overlooked that fact.

Anyway he is out of his head with worry so at least he might have a chance to see baby for a while before they send them off (worst case scenario!!) He is not long back from Brazil too, maybe would have been better to come over together!!

[the scouser]

Immigration are evidently looking to refuse entry to at least the girlfriend, as they would not have detained them so long without believing themselves to be on a winner. When an interpreter does arrive, (by the way, there must be hundreds of Portuguese interpreters within a five-mile radius of LHR), the girlfriend will be interviewed by an immigration officer and, if refused leave to enter, will in all likelihood be detained pending the return flight to Brazil which will probably be tomorrow. Evidently, however, the girlfriend must ask herself whether she is fit to be interviewed: she has flown 6000 miles around the world, with a small child, with probably little sleep, and now finds herself in the stressful situation of having been detained for the last 6-7 hours, facing the prospect of a life-changing interview. If she elects not to be interviewed, her boyfriend should ask that she be granted temporary admission and, if he''s a fellow sweaty of yours, the case be transferred to either Glasgow or Edinburgh. He can then seek legal advice before she's interviewed. However, it should be noted that immigration may decline to grant temporary admission and may detain the girlfriend pending interview.

I would try to press home to immigration that the child is effectively British, as this may ultimately influence their decision to detain the girlfriend.

Scouse.

[caledonia]

Thanks again Scouser - have spoke to him again and it seems she is currently in interview as he has been unable to talk to her on payphone as they had already taken her in for interview. So baby is also in interview and he has not saw the baby either. I have stressed to him the importance of making the point of baby having right to enter very clear but well I am worried he is being too polite!

p.s he is a fellow 'sweaty' by the way but lives in London so might have had little scope to get the interview moved. A bit of a shame really as if he had been waitin up here it might have helped a wee bit more ....I don't know.

[caledonia]

Okay it is getting worse - my goodness this is ridic!!! So they are refusing him access to the baby in the airport as they are stating she is not an EAA/Swiss family member. They are saying she is not British. I have just quoted all the british by "descent" and British "other than by descent" to him and he will try again.

Don't suppse you take phone clients who can pay by credit/debit card or the promise of a cheque. Grandparents have already forked out 2 grand for trip and the chance of seeing their new granddaughter seems to be slipping away.

[caledonia]

Okay it is getting worse - my goodness this is ridic!!! So they are refusing him access to the baby in the airport as they are stating she is not an EAA/Swiss family member. They are saying she is not British. I have just quoted all the british by "descent" and British "other than by descent" to him and he will try again.

Don't suppse you take phone clients who can pay by credit/debit card or the promise of a cheque. Grandparents have already forked out 2 grand for trip and the chance of seeing their new granddaughter seems to be slipping away.

Being totally seriosu by the way - just aware I don't know enough of what to quote to them and they are refusing point blank that he can see baby!! This is madness!!

[the scouser]

Sorry, but the missus dragged me off shopping in mid crisis. I've sent you a PM.

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

So what happened

Did they get in?

[caledonia]

So what happened

Did they get in?

They have been allowed in for a week with a further interview arranged for next week. Still some confusion over the babies status but hopefully all will be ironed out by next week.

Scouse as ever was a life saver!!

[Mahout Angrit]

They have been allowed in for a week with a further interview arranged for next week. Still some confusion over the babies status but hopefully all will be ironed out by next week.

Scouse as ever was a life saver!!

Great, once again another Thai Visa winner

Good luck next week

[Mossfinn]

They have been allowed in for a week with a further interview arranged for next week. Still some confusion over the babies status but hopefully all will be ironed out by next week.

Scouse as ever was a life saver!!

Great, once again another Thai Visa winner

Good luck next week

I second that emotion.

Good Luck

Moss

[mrbojangles]

Thirded. That must have been an absolute nightmare for everyone. Good luck

[atlastaname]

I was getting stressed up just reading it !! A horrible experience i'm sure. However now she has got temporary admission at least your friend has a week to sort it out.

I have to hand it to Scouse, he came up trumps this time